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Unread 02/17/2015, 12:34 PM   #776
GilliganReef
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Just gotta stick to what your doing and in time they should go away.


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Unread 02/17/2015, 12:45 PM   #777
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This already has been a long battle. Almost 2 years I actually have had better results when I took off the gfo. I also quit wetskimming. Blackouts would work for a little while but they only come back stronger . I have a 20+ year old reef and believe at this point it is time to pull all the old sand. And add new. I think I will also try adding some new rock and trying to resead. I think it is a balance issue and it just isn't balanced. On the other hand I am getting growth on all my corals and have to frag all the time. I have a small biocube that I have stocked with frags from my tank and no dinos present.


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Unread 02/17/2015, 03:15 PM   #778
mfaso24
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Dinoflagellates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amphiprion View Post
A quick update:



So far, the dinoflagellates have stayed at bay, that is, up until yesterday when I started noticing some strings reappearing. It is very interesting how this works. When algal growth is active, dinoflagellates disappear, but when it wanes, they immediately pick up any sort of slack. The funny thing that is occurring now is that while nutrients are slightly elevated from increased feeding, etc., much of the filamentous algae has started to suddenly die off en masse. This immediately corresponded with an increase in dinoflagellates. I have no idea what the impetus for any of this was, as nutrient limitation should not be one. Something is being competitively used/exhausted in the process that is leading to most of the filamentous algae to suddenly die. This is the same kind of succession that occurred before prior to dinoflagellates exploding in population

Hm that's weird you say that. I had Dino's, blacked out for 72 hours and when I turned the lights back on, HA started growing but no Dino's. So now I'm battling gha. I hope I don't beat gha only to have Dino's reemerge.

And on top of that, my cuc doesn't seem to bat an eye at the gha -_-


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Unread 02/17/2015, 03:39 PM   #779
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfaso24 View Post
Hm that's weird you say that. I had Dino's, blacked out for 72 hours and when I turned the lights back on, HA started growing but no Dino's. So now I'm battling gha. I hope I don't beat gha only to have Dino's reemerge.

And on top of that, my cuc doesn't seem to bat an eye at the gha -_-
I've repeated something similar quite a few times. Be cautious about discouraging other forms of algae/macroalgae, IME.

*Edit: I mean via water parameter control. I don't know if herbivory would be an issue, though it stands to reason that it would not.


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Unread 02/17/2015, 04:14 PM   #780
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Does anyone know what actually causes Dino's? Is it something that has to be introduced?


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Unread 02/17/2015, 04:38 PM   #781
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On second thought, I think it's turf algae, not gha


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Unread 02/17/2015, 04:41 PM   #782
cal_stir
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They are hosted by corals, zooxanthellae, probably present in all systems but normally kept in check by something or caused to bloom by something.


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Unread 02/17/2015, 05:32 PM   #783
Montireef
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There are many species of dinos and all of them have to be set into the aquarium. Some are almost "natural" and can coexist, while there are other that can play havoc if present (such as ostreopsis, gambierdiscus...). Some can develop toxic substances and many others are just banal.


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Unread 02/17/2015, 05:35 PM   #784
Montireef
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I agree with Amohiprium: algal growth discourages most dinoflagellate species. That's a fact I am very accustomed to with my ostreopsis and amphidinum issues.
But now I think I am close to an ultimate solution: I found a natural parasite that is cleaning my tanks and my buddies ones flawlessly.


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Unread 02/17/2015, 06:09 PM   #785
cal_stir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montireef View Post
I agree with Amohiprium: algal growth discourages most dinoflagellate species. That's a fact I am very accustomed to with my ostreopsis and amphidinum issues.
But now I think I am close to an ultimate solution: I found a natural parasite that is cleaning my tanks and my buddies ones flawlessly.
Please share


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Unread 02/17/2015, 10:56 PM   #786
Montireef
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I would but I live in Madrid, Spain. The parasite is parvilucifera, and can rid a lot of dino species in about two weeks.


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Unread 02/18/2015, 05:33 AM   #787
dartier
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Montireef, It is interesting that you have been able to put a name to the protozoa. How were you able to identify the parasite to this genus?

Any negative effects on your corals? I am just curious if the parasite poses any risks to the symbionts in the coral tissue.

Dennis


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Unread 02/18/2015, 06:49 AM   #788
cal_stir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montireef View Post
I would but I live in Madrid, Spain. The parasite is parvilucifera, and can rid a lot of dino species in about two weeks.
How did you obtain parvilucifer?


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Unread 02/18/2015, 10:22 AM   #789
Royce7586
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so your telling me lucifer has rid your tanks of dinos...

All hail Lucifer!


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Unread 02/18/2015, 10:49 AM   #790
mfaso24
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Wait a second am I missing something? If it is true that algae growth discourages algae, wouldn't running macro algae In a fuge discourage Dino's as well?


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Unread 02/18/2015, 11:22 AM   #791
DNA
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Even if there would be a complete suceess with parvilucifera we would have to wait at least 3 months to see if cysts will recontaminate the tank.
At that point the parasite could be extinct and dinos free again to rule the tank.

I've got hopes for this parasite, it's the best new method I've seen in a long time.
Perhaps it's the absence of it that causes dino blooms.

If I speculate a bit further, we have still not found out what causes blooms in our tanks and don't know what the favorable conditions are so even if 99.99% of them die the conditions remain favorable.
Since there are millions of dinos in an infested tank a parasite would have a hard time finding them all.

---

Budman, identify your dinos and go from there.
Your new live rock plan could be helpful.


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Unread 02/18/2015, 11:30 AM   #792
DNA
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I could not replace my carbon after 4 weeks as usual and my SPS corals took the fast route south with tissue necrosis in week 6, just like last year.
As soon as I could do the maintenance it stopped.

I'd think this is an indicator to the tolerance levels of my corals to the palytoxins.


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Unread 02/18/2015, 12:35 PM   #793
mfaso24
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Can someone help identify if these are Dino's?
They are strands coming off of the zoas, a little difficult to see but they are redish/brownish in color.


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Unread 02/18/2015, 12:40 PM   #794
Montireef
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I would say, they are. Your zoos are puking a kind of dinoflagellate called zooxanthela.
Maybe because they are getting a strong light.


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Unread 02/18/2015, 12:44 PM   #795
Montireef
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dartier View Post
Montireef, It is interesting that you have been able to put a name to the protozoa. How were you able to identify the parasite to this genus?

Any negative effects on your corals? I am just curious if the parasite poses any risks to the symbionts in the coral tissue.

Dennis
I didn't have to id this little 2um critter, as it was given to me by a specialized lab in Spain. Ostreopsis and other dinoflagellates have been playing havoc since the last two decades, and thus we have many investments in this area.

Ostreopsis completely gone in less than two weeks, no effect on fishes or inverts (and I have about 400 SPSs corals)


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Unread 02/18/2015, 12:51 PM   #796
karimwassef
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Who is "we" and which lab is this?


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Unread 02/18/2015, 01:03 PM   #797
mfaso24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montireef View Post
I would say, they are. Your zoos are puking a kind of dinoflagellate called zooxanthela.
Maybe because they are getting a strong light.

I know what you're talking about but I don't think that's the case as I have a few strands here and there else where in the tank. It's nothing you would notice unless you looked extremely closely but it worries me now.


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Unread 02/18/2015, 01:27 PM   #798
DNA
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It happens in healthy tanks like when you rub against corals and such.
Don't worry about it unless it gets obvious, with brown mats or lots of strings.


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Unread 02/18/2015, 01:41 PM   #799
mfaso24
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Quote:
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It happens in healthy tanks like when you rub against corals and such.
Don't worry about it unless it gets obvious, with brown mats or lots of strings.

Well that's part of it is that I did get obvious. I blacked out for 72 hours (this must have been 3 weeks ago) then went just actinics for a week and now full lighting. As soon as I originally turned the lights back on I started getting turf or hair algae. And now I'm starting to notice some of this.


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Unread 02/18/2015, 01:45 PM   #800
Montireef
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DNA View Post
Even if there would be a complete suceess with parvilucifera we would have to wait at least 3 months to see if cysts will recontaminate the tank.
At that point the parasite could be extinct and dinos free again to rule the tank.

I've got hopes for this parasite, it's the best new method I've seen in a long time.
Perhaps it's the absence of it that causes dino blooms.

If I speculate a bit further, we have still not found out what causes blooms in our tanks and don't know what the favorable conditions are so even if 99.99% of them die the conditions remain favorable.
Since there are millions of dinos in an infested tank a parasite would have a hard time finding them all.

---

Budman, identify your dinos and go from there.
Your new live rock plan could be helpful.
I agree. We have to be cautious.

The good news is that this parasite also kills the thecate and non thecate cysts (pellicles). Taken from our scientists studies:

"Pellicle (asexual )cysts,were not long term resistant to parasite infection,since their presence was not observed in the infected cultures after all mobile stages had been killed (5–7days after infection)."


In the pictures you can see an infected round cell amongst many healthy ostreopsis cells and two ostreopsis cells that have lost their theca.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg Esporangio y ostreopsis.jpg (63.0 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg Theca desprendida 6 día.jpg (74.9 KB, 26 views)
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