What am I doing wrong

LandenReefer · 04/24/2018, 07:18 PM

So in the last several weeks I have purchased 2 new fish for my 29 gallon tank that has been running for over a year. It currently has an Ocellaris Clown, Talbot Damsel and Orange Spot Diamond Goby. All are very healthy and the tank looks very good.

Both of the recent purchases have died, a twin spot goby within a day of purchase and a Purple Dottyback in 6 days. I acclimated them by floating, then over an hour slowly added tank water to the bag. This is the same method I have done with all my fish and never had problems. Tank parms are 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 10 nitrates, salinity is 1.025, temp is 77 degrees.

I believe the twin spot wasn't healthy and was a bad purchase. Not sure with the dottyback. It quickly hid when put in the tank but I did see it eat a little bit during the week.

Anything I seem to be doing wrong or is it just a few bad purchases? Any suggestions on fish that might be better to put in with the fish I have?

qoeletd · 04/25/2018, 02:05 AM

personally I prefer to acclimate with drops, 2 or 3 hours.
However the Dottyback lived 6 days, and I don't thinks that the problem is acclimation...

Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

RobZilla04 · 04/25/2018, 04:24 AM

IMO a 29g is small, really small when you take into account rock work and scaping. It is entirely possible these fish became stressed from the tank change or were stressed by the other fish already in the system. Especially at night if the new fish does not have a place to go for safety and sleep, they will effectively be stressed 24/7.

One option you can try is to rearrage the aquascape right before adding a new fish. This will disrupt the current livestock's comfort thus placing all the fish into the same state. They will all search for new places to go and hide and might give an opportunity for the new fish to settle in.

Size differences can also play a role.

Lastly did you check a compatibility chart?

eastlake · 04/25/2018, 06:15 AM

Given that the twins spot goby may not have been healthy on purchase it may not have lasted terribly long anyway as goby's aren't very accepting to other species of goby sharing their ground space. The dottyback though is a puzzler as I've always known them to be fairly durable fish. Perhaps the talbots was keeping it pinned in the rocks? Even then I'd expect it to feel at home as in the past mine had always kept to the rocks as well.

allendehl · 04/25/2018, 07:26 AM

I'd QT the next fish to rule out a bad LFS. Many things can go wrong but it doesn't mean they did.
Stress is very possible but...it is also possible it wasn't it. IMO you should start ruling out things that you can control, like a sick fish, stress and aggression . By QT your fish for a few weeks you make sure they came healthy and can take that off the equation. If they die in QT, then rule out stress in the tank and incompatibility with other tank mates....fish are just coming in sick (provided you setup your QT correctly).
QT is a PITA but it is very helpful and serves a good purpose.

LandenReefer · 04/25/2018, 07:59 PM

Thanks for the suggestions. I think the twin spot was not healthy when I got it but the dottyback is strange. I know the damsel kept harassing it so that might be what happened. Next fish I will take your suggestions and try something different.

mndfreeze · 04/26/2018, 03:46 AM

Damsels are a55h0lios

Smokey Stover · 04/26/2018, 06:50 AM

QT them, But check the salinity of the LFS water first and match your QT to it. They usually run quite a bit lower levels like 1.019ish. Drip acclimating for 1-2-3 hours is not enough time to raise salinity up to 1.025, Do that in the QT over a week to avoid Osmotic Shock. Also Ammonia levels in the bag can spike rapidly.

oldhead · 04/26/2018, 09:36 AM

I'm betting that you raised salinity too fast. I learned this lesson early on when wondering why my new fish would die in a couple days to a week. It's just one more reason to QT.

LandenReefer · 04/26/2018, 05:11 PM

I am going to take a water sample to my LFS on Saturday. Came home today and my Diamond Goby was dead. Its really weird because my clown and damsel look really healthy. My SPS is doing well as is my LPS but some of my zoas and cloves don't look good. Something is out of wack in the tank.

Icewing726 · 04/26/2018, 08:20 PM

K I'm a bad fish keeper but I did keep a number of fish while behaving badly.

First, I have no comment on the QT stuff. I'm sure its good but at the same time I also believe that if you haven't QTd EVERYTHING to include live food that its a waste of time, except maybe to observe before adding.

Second, I used to be a float and drop guy but then I splurged 2.70 at ace and bought 1/8 inner diameter 1/4 outter hose and clamped it to the side of the tank after putting a tape tab on it. The drip method was incredibly easy, just tie knots and try for 2-4 drops per second. After water doubles in volume empty half then let it double again, should take an hour. I stole all that from an acclimation guide but I can tell you that all inverts and fish lived (inverts were 1-2 drops per second). When I was a float and drop guy nothing died either, but those were predators... (btw they shipped these fish at 1.020-1.019 and my tank is 1.026, no losses due to shock or anything else for that matter)

Third, did you add any aquascaping lately, do any siliconing with the wrong version of ge silicone even though you knew the right version but neglected to activate that section of your brain so your gonna spend the next 10 freaking hours removing it........ sorry flashback. I've heard plenty of people lose a lot of fish due to corals toxifying the place, using the wrong materials like I started too, or even adding in some uncycled live rock.

Anyway, I'm sure all of this is less then helpful. I offer it up anyways, good luck.

LandenReefer · 04/26/2018, 09:11 PM

The only thing I have done is add 2 pieces of dry base rock from my LFS which is very reputable and well known in the area for high quality stuff. The only thing I use in the tank is underwater epoxy which I have used for years without issue.

This is very puzzling. I use distilled water from the same source for the last year without any issue.

Its very strange that my Acan, Frogspawn and Trumpets along with SPS don't show any signs of stress. Mushrooms and GPS are fine. My zoas and clove polyps are shrinking which is strange. Clown and Damsel look good as does my Coral Banded Shrimp, snails and hermits are fine as well.

I did add a Jebao OW10 to the tank about 3 weeks ago. I haven't detected any stray voltage but to be safe I unplugged it tonight to see if possibly something is going on with it. I have 2 other pumps in the tank so it can go a few days without the water movement without causing issues. Not likely but who knows.

laverda · 04/26/2018, 10:46 PM

Twin spot gobies are very hard to keep as the usually starve to death. Although that takes a while. Twin spot gobies need a well established fine sand bed. They feed by sifting the sand. I was able to keep a pair for several year in a nano by injecting the sand daily with cyclopes and other foods. Sadly I lost them when I moved them to a long established tank even though I kept feeding them the same way. In the small tank they learned where I was putting the food for them. they never did in the big tank.
My guess is one or both of the new fish had a parasite, which is very common among bottom dwellers and probably past in on to your established goby. That is what a QT is always a good idea. Hopefully, your clowns do not get it as well.

reef cuber · 04/27/2018, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mndfreeze

Damsels are a55h0lios

I second that!

AboutToBeReefin · 04/27/2018, 09:20 AM

there is a sticky called "Death in bags...acclimation fatality: why it happens". I'm not sure how long they were in the bag or what ammonia content was in the LFS water to begin with but this is worth a read from it:

Quote:

WHY should a creature 2 days in a bag alive suddenly die when the bag is opened?: poop. Respiration. In shipped livestock, or during a trip home from the store, the waste from the fish/invert hits the water and you have ammonium and co2 in that water. The moment you open the bag, you release the co2 and ph climbs. This ph change converts the harmless ammonium in the water to deadly ammonia. The longer the fish is exposed to ammonia (remember it's drinking it as well as breathing it) the more damage its internal organs take. Too long in the opened bag and the fish takes too much damage to live very long.
--------
First, you should know (phone) at what salinity your shipper ships certain livestock. They'll tell you. You should have a qt tank ready AT THAT SALINITY if you've got a fish. You can put inverts straight in.
----------
Step 1: DO NOT OPEN THE BAG. Float it for 15 minutes. This handles temperature.
Step 2: open bag and test the water to be sure you were told accurately. AS OF THIS EXACT POINT (look at the clock) YOU HAVE 30 minutes OR LESS to get that critter to a qt tank, if fish, or to your tank, if invert, and to dip it and set it safely on the bottom of your tank if coral. Remember acclimation is all about salinity. Be accurate. Be fast. If salinity matches within .001, that fish is good to go into that qt water. Instantly as you open the bag if you've got a near match!
Full procedure given here: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1939508

ReeferNoob4ever · 04/27/2018, 10:22 AM

Aggression from the already established fish would be on top of my list. I can't really speak on QT or salinity raising etc because I just toss things in (including coral) after about 15 min float. This has worked for me for over 13 years. I would say that unless your temp and salinity params are way off from the LFS I wouldn't suspect a tough fish like a dottyback to die from those things. Unless they were unhealthy in which case that is the issue.

sde1500 · 04/27/2018, 10:36 AM

It does sound like aggression or an acclimation problem.

LandenReefer · 04/27/2018, 08:21 PM

Any ideas on why my softies would be closing up but my SPS and LPS are doing ok?

LandenReefer · 04/28/2018, 05:01 PM

Went to the LFS today and they tested my water. Did not find anything out of the ordinary with the exception of my salinity was 1.022 yet at home I was testing 1.025. They verified their calibration so I am going to slowly raise my salinity and get my refractometer recalibrated.

LandenReefer · 05/02/2018, 07:05 PM

After slowly raising the salinity over the last 3 days I am pretty confident the problems with my corals was the low salinity level. Everything is now opening, even my zoas which is a great sign. Still have to raise it a little bit but the change in the corals has been dramatic.

04/24/2018, 07:18 PM	#1
LandenReefer Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 22	What am I doing wrong So in the last several weeks I have purchased 2 new fish for my 29 gallon tank that has been running for over a year. It currently has an Ocellaris Clown, Talbot Damsel and Orange Spot Diamond Goby. All are very healthy and the tank looks very good. Both of the recent purchases have died, a twin spot goby within a day of purchase and a Purple Dottyback in 6 days. I acclimated them by floating, then over an hour slowly added tank water to the bag. This is the same method I have done with all my fish and never had problems. Tank parms are 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 10 nitrates, salinity is 1.025, temp is 77 degrees. I believe the twin spot wasn't healthy and was a bad purchase. Not sure with the dottyback. It quickly hid when put in the tank but I did see it eat a little bit during the week. Anything I seem to be doing wrong or is it just a few bad purchases? Any suggestions on fish that might be better to put in with the fish I have?

04/25/2018, 04:24 AM	#3
RobZilla04 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: St. Augustine, FL Posts: 1,857	IMO a 29g is small, really small when you take into account rock work and scaping. It is entirely possible these fish became stressed from the tank change or were stressed by the other fish already in the system. Especially at night if the new fish does not have a place to go for safety and sleep, they will effectively be stressed 24/7. One option you can try is to rearrage the aquascape right before adding a new fish. This will disrupt the current livestock's comfort thus placing all the fish into the same state. They will all search for new places to go and hide and might give an opportunity for the new fish to settle in. Size differences can also play a role. Lastly did you check a compatibility chart? __________________ 90g Mixed Reef

04/25/2018, 07:26 AM	#5
allendehl Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 692	I'd QT the next fish to rule out a bad LFS. Many things can go wrong but it doesn't mean they did. Stress is very possible but...it is also possible it wasn't it. IMO you should start ruling out things that you can control, like a sick fish, stress and aggression . By QT your fish for a few weeks you make sure they came healthy and can take that off the equation. If they die in QT, then rule out stress in the tank and incompatibility with other tank mates....fish are just coming in sick (provided you setup your QT correctly). QT is a PITA but it is very helpful and serves a good purpose. __________________ [Newbie here so please take my opinions carefully] Current Tank Info: Red Sea Reefer 350 (72G) \| Jebao DCT 4000 (1056 GPH Max) \| Reef Octopus 152-S \| 2 X Jebao PP8 (2100 GPH Max)

04/26/2018, 10:46 PM	#13
laverda Registered Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 6,902	Twin spot gobies are very hard to keep as the usually starve to death. Although that takes a while. Twin spot gobies need a well established fine sand bed. They feed by sifting the sand. I was able to keep a pair for several year in a nano by injecting the sand daily with cyclopes and other foods. Sadly I lost them when I moved them to a long established tank even though I kept feeding them the same way. In the small tank they learned where I was putting the food for them. they never did in the big tank. My guess is one or both of the new fish had a parasite, which is very common among bottom dwellers and probably past in on to your established goby. That is what a QT is always a good idea. Hopefully, your clowns do not get it as well. __________________ 240G mixed reef, 29G SPS/LPS clam tank, 50G mixed reef Current Tank Info: 300g mixed reef, 50g cube

04/27/2018, 10:22 AM	#16
ReeferNoob4ever Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: NM Posts: 523	Aggression from the already established fish would be on top of my list. I can't really speak on QT or salinity raising etc because I just toss things in (including coral) after about 15 min float. This has worked for me for over 13 years. I would say that unless your temp and salinity params are way off from the LFS I wouldn't suspect a tough fish like a dottyback to die from those things. Unless they were unhealthy in which case that is the issue. __________________ Get a life! Current Tank Info: 20gL mixed reef, 10g mixed reef w/nem & clown, 5g NPS & harlequin

04/25/2018, 02:05 AM	#2
qoeletd Registered Member Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 38	personally I prefer to acclimate with drops, 2 or 3 hours. However the Dottyback lived 6 days, and I don't thinks that the problem is acclimation... Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

04/25/2018, 06:15 AM	#4
eastlake Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: willoughby Posts: 648	Given that the twins spot goby may not have been healthy on purchase it may not have lasted terribly long anyway as goby's aren't very accepting to other species of goby sharing their ground space. The dottyback though is a puzzler as I've always known them to be fairly durable fish. Perhaps the talbots was keeping it pinned in the rocks? Even then I'd expect it to feel at home as in the past mine had always kept to the rocks as well.

04/25/2018, 07:59 PM	#6
LandenReefer Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 22	Thanks for the suggestions. I think the twin spot was not healthy when I got it but the dottyback is strange. I know the damsel kept harassing it so that might be what happened. Next fish I will take your suggestions and try something different.

04/26/2018, 03:46 AM	#7
mndfreeze Invert Sexy Time! Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tempe, AZ Posts: 2,255	Damsels are a55h0lios

04/26/2018, 06:50 AM	#8
Smokey Stover Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Largo, Florida Posts: 361	QT them, But check the salinity of the LFS water first and match your QT to it. They usually run quite a bit lower levels like 1.019ish. Drip acclimating for 1-2-3 hours is not enough time to raise salinity up to 1.025, Do that in the QT over a week to avoid Osmotic Shock. Also Ammonia levels in the bag can spike rapidly.

04/26/2018, 09:36 AM	#9
oldhead Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: New Jersey Posts: 527	I'm betting that you raised salinity too fast. I learned this lesson early on when wondering why my new fish would die in a couple days to a week. It's just one more reason to QT.

04/26/2018, 05:11 PM	#10
LandenReefer Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 22	I am going to take a water sample to my LFS on Saturday. Came home today and my Diamond Goby was dead. Its really weird because my clown and damsel look really healthy. My SPS is doing well as is my LPS but some of my zoas and cloves don't look good. Something is out of wack in the tank.

04/26/2018, 08:20 PM	#11
Icewing726 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 248	K I'm a bad fish keeper but I did keep a number of fish while behaving badly. First, I have no comment on the QT stuff. I'm sure its good but at the same time I also believe that if you haven't QTd EVERYTHING to include live food that its a waste of time, except maybe to observe before adding. Second, I used to be a float and drop guy but then I splurged 2.70 at ace and bought 1/8 inner diameter 1/4 outter hose and clamped it to the side of the tank after putting a tape tab on it. The drip method was incredibly easy, just tie knots and try for 2-4 drops per second. After water doubles in volume empty half then let it double again, should take an hour. I stole all that from an acclimation guide but I can tell you that all inverts and fish lived (inverts were 1-2 drops per second). When I was a float and drop guy nothing died either, but those were predators... (btw they shipped these fish at 1.020-1.019 and my tank is 1.026, no losses due to shock or anything else for that matter) Third, did you add any aquascaping lately, do any siliconing with the wrong version of ge silicone even though you knew the right version but neglected to activate that section of your brain so your gonna spend the next 10 freaking hours removing it........ sorry flashback. I've heard plenty of people lose a lot of fish due to corals toxifying the place, using the wrong materials like I started too, or even adding in some uncycled live rock. Anyway, I'm sure all of this is less then helpful. I offer it up anyways, good luck.

04/26/2018, 09:11 PM	#12
LandenReefer Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 22	The only thing I have done is add 2 pieces of dry base rock from my LFS which is very reputable and well known in the area for high quality stuff. The only thing I use in the tank is underwater epoxy which I have used for years without issue. This is very puzzling. I use distilled water from the same source for the last year without any issue. Its very strange that my Acan, Frogspawn and Trumpets along with SPS don't show any signs of stress. Mushrooms and GPS are fine. My zoas and clove polyps are shrinking which is strange. Clown and Damsel look good as does my Coral Banded Shrimp, snails and hermits are fine as well. I did add a Jebao OW10 to the tank about 3 weeks ago. I haven't detected any stray voltage but to be safe I unplugged it tonight to see if possibly something is going on with it. I have 2 other pumps in the tank so it can go a few days without the water movement without causing issues. Not likely but who knows.

04/27/2018, 10:36 AM	#17
sde1500 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Glocester, RI Posts: 3,336	It does sound like aggression or an acclimation problem. __________________ My build thread: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2548422 Current Tank Info: 65 gallon mixed reef, Eshopps sump and HOB overflow, RO-110int skimmer, Reefbreeder 32" photons V1.

04/27/2018, 08:21 PM	#18
LandenReefer Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 22	Any ideas on why my softies would be closing up but my SPS and LPS are doing ok?

04/28/2018, 05:01 PM	#19
LandenReefer Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 22	Went to the LFS today and they tested my water. Did not find anything out of the ordinary with the exception of my salinity was 1.022 yet at home I was testing 1.025. They verified their calibration so I am going to slowly raise my salinity and get my refractometer recalibrated.

05/02/2018, 07:05 PM	#20
LandenReefer Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 22	After slowly raising the salinity over the last 3 days I am pretty confident the problems with my corals was the low salinity level. Everything is now opening, even my zoas which is a great sign. Still have to raise it a little bit but the change in the corals has been dramatic.