Sticky Water / Coral Recession / Nutient Levels - Page 2

bertoni · 03/09/2018, 09:18 PM

If the problems is chemicals from the algae, it's going to be hard to do much.

RobZilla04 · 03/10/2018, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bertoni

If the problems is chemicals from the algae, it's going to be hard to do much.

Did a 15g wc this morning. At this point if I lose the sps frags so be it. I hate to let them go but I've got to bring everything back under control and stable.

Still no GAC, just poly pad plus blue/white filter pad, skimming, uv 12hr daily, and organic carbon dosing, going to do the maintenance Vibrant routine and keep the water changes at two weeks for a while.

Good news is the sticky feeling of the water is gone. Not sure if it was from the GAC or lack of filter pad.

Thanks for keeping an eye on this, I'll check back

Tripod1404 · 03/27/2018, 11:14 AM

In continuation of the other discussion; with N and and P of 10 and 0.08. I would raise alk to 9dHK, maybe 9.5 dKH. Make sure alk doesn't swing, try to keep it as stable as possible.

RobZilla04 · 03/27/2018, 11:39 AM

Thanks, looks like I may have swung both in the opposite directions inadvertently. Slowly They are working their way toward your recommendations. I'll re-evaluate from there, thanks.

bertoni · 03/27/2018, 09:47 PM

Is the "sticky" feeling going away?

RobZilla04 · 03/28/2018, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bertoni

Is the "sticky" feeling going away?

Completely gone. That happened rather quickly after going back to mechanical filtration with blue/white plus polyfilter.

bertoni · 03/29/2018, 10:15 PM

Okay, well, at least that's getting better.

RobZilla04 · 03/30/2018, 04:54 AM

A little update on progress. Earlier this week I began running GFO in a reactor (haven't don't this since the eradication of GHA a couple of year back). I've stopped dosing Vibrant (strongly suspecting this caused the original STN of SPS though I have no direct evidence).

Also increased organic carbon dosing (20ml total daily over 4 doses). This plus the GFO has really taken a toll on the green growth on my back glass. Also knocking down the red turf which is spotty on the rocks yet overrun on the overflow divider.

Shooting to keep Alk in the low 8's / high 7's dKH.
Cal - 400-420
Mg - 1400ish (hard to get an accurate reading)

Gotta get some more current No3 & Po4 readings soon. Maybe this weekend.

All in all STN seems to have finally stopped. New growth, however not so much

bertoni · 03/30/2018, 10:28 PM

Well, at least the STN has stopped. The growth might get better once the algae problems are gone. That's only a possibility, though.

RobZilla04 · 04/12/2018, 08:08 AM

Another update:

At this point I am beginning to suspect possibly the UV Sterilizer is causing some issues. All parameters are within the desired ranges. Tested yesterday and got

Alk 8.6 dKH
Cal 395
Mg 1300
N 10
P .03
1.026

Something is definitely irritating the corals. No new growth. LPS trumpets never look full, though their feeding tentacles do come out at night. Very slow GSP growth on back glass, and no growth of torches. Monti's are holding steady and SPS fade in an out (the few frags remaining).

Done several water and filter changes over the past 6 weeks. Put in GFO for 10 days as some green algae was increasing on the back glass and over flow. Pulled it a few days ago and got the above test result yesterday.

Working on bringing down the nitrates slightly to <5ppm. Going to maintain Alk around 8.5 dKH.

The plan is to remove, dismantle, and inspect the Aqua UV sterilizer. Hoping to not find any corrosion or rot.

bertoni · 04/12/2018, 08:49 PM

I hope the UV is okay and not rusting into the water column. That could cause some serious problems.

RobZilla04 · 04/13/2018, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bertoni

I hope the UV is okay and not rusting into the water column. That could cause some serious problems.

Clean as a whistle. Peace of mind now as I know that would cause major issues. This was the last piece of equipment to check for rust/corrosion.

Went ahead and did a 15g water change so it will be interesting to see how the coral respond.

Really feeling stuck on what could be the issue(s) at this point.

bertoni · 04/14/2018, 10:53 PM

Lots of tanks have problems that we can't diagnose. I don't have anything very useful in the way of new ideas.

RobZilla04 · 04/15/2018, 07:43 AM

Thanks for checking back in anyhow.

Now I'm going to dose trace elements every other day for a while. Right after water changes of course all the coral pop full and extend. Hopefully they are simply depleting something minor that I can easily replace.

Running out of ideas also.

Poopapotamus · 04/16/2018, 04:12 PM

I had a similar slight downturn in my coral well being. I couldn't figure out what the issue was. All my parameters that you would normally measure were spot on. I think I might have figured it out though... I think I left my RODI in bypass mode by accident onetime... I went downstairs and heard it running, and I normally run it in bypass just before taking water, so I must have just left it running. I am guessing a bunch of impurities including probably some chlorine got into my RODI water vat, and I was gradually adding this to my tank with top-ups and water changes. I shut off the RODI and emptied the vat once I got the suspicion that this was the case and allowed it to refill... after doing this everything has slowly been bouncing back.
Any chance you are having an issue with your RODI unit, or the water in your area is particularly bad right now, or your cartridges are old? May want to look into it.
Good Luck

RobZilla04 · 04/16/2018, 06:14 PM

^ Thanks. Hadn't looked into the RODI yet. Still getting 0 TDS, just changed the filters in Jan (except DI). I guess I could drain all the cartridges and refill, or go ahead and change the DI stage even thought I'm getting 0.

Don't have a chlorine test. Normal booming residential construction around me right now. Has been since I moved in two years ago though.

RobZilla04 · 04/17/2018, 09:27 AM

Any thoughts regarding organic carbon dosing contributing to the issue? I never stopped and in fact increased to 25ml daily over the past 6 weeks to bring down Nitrates. My minor algae issue is nearly completely gone.

The only remaining issue facing the LPS is what appears to be patchy algae type growth on the soft parts of the tissue. In many cases the polyp portion has died or looks very close to death (shriveled, droopy, and saggy). Only effecting the bright green trumpets though.

Ill try to get some pix up this evening.....

RobZilla04 · 04/17/2018, 02:58 PM

Got a chance for a few more pix. Arrows indicating a couple of spots where that apparent algae is growing from LPS polyps and where branch growth receded (algae also apparent) on SPS.

bertoni · 04/17/2018, 10:56 PM

I don't know whether carbon dosing might be part of the problem. That seems to work both ways for corals. The algae might make a problem worse, but it's at least reasonably possible that some other factor is causing an initial die-back or necrosis of the corals.

If it's easy enough, spending a few minutes a week removing the algae might limit the damage. I wouldn't spend a lot of time on it, though, and I can't just the ease of reaching the pest. A dental pick might be fine, for example. I'd like to stress the "few minutes per week" part, maybe 3-4 minutes at tops, and if it's annoying to do, don't bother.

RobZilla04 · 04/19/2018, 04:46 AM

Okay I believe I am finally on to something here. Yesterday I increased my flow (added in an old Hydor constant flow powerhead) and nearly instantly with the added random flow the LPS got puffy/full.

Next on a whim I heard the ATO topping off more than usual. Upon checking the mechanical media tray was overflowing allowing enough water to spill over the edge of the sump. Not total disaster. Didn't lose enough water to affect salinity. Here is where it gets interesting. The filters were changed only a couple of weeks ago. Typically I get nearly 6 weeks from the blue/white & polyfilter.

During the change I noticed they did not appear as filthy as usual. The skimmer also wasn't pulling quite the dark volume of gunk. My hypothesis here is that the increased carbon dosing (Vinegar/Vodka/RODI) was contributing to the sticky water I described earlier in the thread.

Over the past two days I've cut the carbon dosing 40% (25ml daily to 15ml). Along with reduced lighting intensity after watching a video where Dana Riddle explains photosynthesis/light/alk, I opted for more flow. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBktpJ3umAs

Ill leave the carbon dosing at 15ml for a few more days and likely do a 15g water change this weekend to further reduce the residual remaining slime/sticky from the water.

Let's see were this takes me.

bertoni · 04/19/2018, 10:16 PM

The LPS might be making progress. That's good news. I am not sure what the carbon dosing change might do. I think it's worth trying, though.

RobZilla04 · 04/21/2018, 08:19 AM

Day 3 of higher flow and 40% less organic carbon dosing and wow, what a difference.

LPS are puffy again and the spots of algae growth on the polyps have receeded significantly. Even gone in a few spots. I'll try to update with pix today or tomorrow. Assuming my interpretation of flow was skewed.

Just glad I'm on the right track now.

bertoni · 04/21/2018, 02:19 PM

Now that's great news!

I'll be interested in the updates.

RobZilla04 · 04/22/2018, 09:37 AM

Update: Day 4 with easily double the flow I had previously. More cell pix (still working out my DSLR and aquarium pix).

Test results from this morning:

Alk - 8.3 dKH
Cal - 405
Mag - ?
Nitrates - 5-10ppm
Po4 - .02

On to the pix.

A little difference but the overall improvement has been in the health and appearance of everything together. I lost the small monti in the first set of pix, but this monti was displaying paling/whitning along with algae growth. The algae is much more contained and starting to receed.

These candy cane trumpets were looking droopy and had the beginning of algae spots. The remaining dark spots that can be seen are small, fading, and the coral appear to be beating them off.

Again sorry for the crappy cell pix. Tried to get this done before getting busy with my day.

bertoni · 04/22/2018, 01:33 PM

Okay, the corals seem to have turned the corner.

03/09/2018, 09:18 PM	#26
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	If the problems is chemicals from the algae, it's going to be hard to do much. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

03/27/2018, 11:39 AM	#29
RobZilla04 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: St. Augustine, FL Posts: 1,857	Thanks, looks like I may have swung both in the opposite directions inadvertently. Slowly They are working their way toward your recommendations. I'll re-evaluate from there, thanks. __________________ 90g Mixed Reef

03/27/2018, 09:47 PM	#30
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Is the "sticky" feeling going away? __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

03/29/2018, 10:15 PM	#32
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Okay, well, at least that's getting better. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

03/30/2018, 04:54 AM	#33
RobZilla04 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: St. Augustine, FL Posts: 1,857	A little update on progress. Earlier this week I began running GFO in a reactor (haven't don't this since the eradication of GHA a couple of year back). I've stopped dosing Vibrant (strongly suspecting this caused the original STN of SPS though I have no direct evidence). Also increased organic carbon dosing (20ml total daily over 4 doses). This plus the GFO has really taken a toll on the green growth on my back glass. Also knocking down the red turf which is spotty on the rocks yet overrun on the overflow divider. Shooting to keep Alk in the low 8's / high 7's dKH. Cal - 400-420 Mg - 1400ish (hard to get an accurate reading) Gotta get some more current No3 & Po4 readings soon. Maybe this weekend. All in all STN seems to have finally stopped. New growth, however not so much __________________ 90g Mixed Reef

03/27/2018, 11:14 AM	#28
Tripod1404 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 1,821	In continuation of the other discussion; with N and and P of 10 and 0.08. I would raise alk to 9dHK, maybe 9.5 dKH. Make sure alk doesn't swing, try to keep it as stable as possible.

03/30/2018, 10:28 PM	#34
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Well, at least the STN has stopped. The growth might get better once the algae problems are gone. That's only a possibility, though. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

04/12/2018, 08:08 AM	#35
RobZilla04 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: St. Augustine, FL Posts: 1,857	Another update: At this point I am beginning to suspect possibly the UV Sterilizer is causing some issues. All parameters are within the desired ranges. Tested yesterday and got Alk 8.6 dKH Cal 395 Mg 1300 N 10 P .03 1.026 Something is definitely irritating the corals. No new growth. LPS trumpets never look full, though their feeding tentacles do come out at night. Very slow GSP growth on back glass, and no growth of torches. Monti's are holding steady and SPS fade in an out (the few frags remaining). Done several water and filter changes over the past 6 weeks. Put in GFO for 10 days as some green algae was increasing on the back glass and over flow. Pulled it a few days ago and got the above test result yesterday. Working on bringing down the nitrates slightly to <5ppm. Going to maintain Alk around 8.5 dKH. The plan is to remove, dismantle, and inspect the Aqua UV sterilizer. Hoping to not find any corrosion or rot. __________________ 90g Mixed Reef

04/12/2018, 08:49 PM	#36
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I hope the UV is okay and not rusting into the water column. That could cause some serious problems. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

04/14/2018, 10:53 PM	#38
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Lots of tanks have problems that we can't diagnose. I don't have anything very useful in the way of new ideas. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

04/15/2018, 07:43 AM	#39
RobZilla04 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: St. Augustine, FL Posts: 1,857	Thanks for checking back in anyhow. Now I'm going to dose trace elements every other day for a while. Right after water changes of course all the coral pop full and extend. Hopefully they are simply depleting something minor that I can easily replace. Running out of ideas also. __________________ 90g Mixed Reef

04/16/2018, 04:12 PM	#40
Poopapotamus Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 22	I had a similar slight downturn in my coral well being. I couldn't figure out what the issue was. All my parameters that you would normally measure were spot on. I think I might have figured it out though... I think I left my RODI in bypass mode by accident onetime... I went downstairs and heard it running, and I normally run it in bypass just before taking water, so I must have just left it running. I am guessing a bunch of impurities including probably some chlorine got into my RODI water vat, and I was gradually adding this to my tank with top-ups and water changes. I shut off the RODI and emptied the vat once I got the suspicion that this was the case and allowed it to refill... after doing this everything has slowly been bouncing back. Any chance you are having an issue with your RODI unit, or the water in your area is particularly bad right now, or your cartridges are old? May want to look into it. Good Luck __________________ If your not part of the solution... Your part of the precipitate! Current Tank Info: 108G drop off reef, Eshopps RS-300 sump, Kessel A160W & A360W, 2x Jebao SW-8, Apex Controller

04/16/2018, 06:14 PM	#41
RobZilla04 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: St. Augustine, FL Posts: 1,857	^ Thanks. Hadn't looked into the RODI yet. Still getting 0 TDS, just changed the filters in Jan (except DI). I guess I could drain all the cartridges and refill, or go ahead and change the DI stage even thought I'm getting 0. Don't have a chlorine test. Normal booming residential construction around me right now. Has been since I moved in two years ago though. __________________ 90g Mixed Reef

04/17/2018, 09:27 AM	#42
RobZilla04 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: St. Augustine, FL Posts: 1,857	Any thoughts regarding organic carbon dosing contributing to the issue? I never stopped and in fact increased to 25ml daily over the past 6 weeks to bring down Nitrates. My minor algae issue is nearly completely gone. The only remaining issue facing the LPS is what appears to be patchy algae type growth on the soft parts of the tissue. In many cases the polyp portion has died or looks very close to death (shriveled, droopy, and saggy). Only effecting the bright green trumpets though. Ill try to get some pix up this evening..... __________________ 90g Mixed Reef

04/17/2018, 02:58 PM	#43
RobZilla04 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: St. Augustine, FL Posts: 1,857	Got a chance for a few more pix. Arrows indicating a couple of spots where that apparent algae is growing from LPS polyps and where branch growth receded (algae also apparent) on SPS. __________________ 90g Mixed Reef

04/17/2018, 10:56 PM	#44
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I don't know whether carbon dosing might be part of the problem. That seems to work both ways for corals. The algae might make a problem worse, but it's at least reasonably possible that some other factor is causing an initial die-back or necrosis of the corals. If it's easy enough, spending a few minutes a week removing the algae might limit the damage. I wouldn't spend a lot of time on it, though, and I can't just the ease of reaching the pest. A dental pick might be fine, for example. I'd like to stress the "few minutes per week" part, maybe 3-4 minutes at tops, and if it's annoying to do, don't bother. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

04/19/2018, 04:46 AM	#45
RobZilla04 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: St. Augustine, FL Posts: 1,857	Okay I believe I am finally on to something here. Yesterday I increased my flow (added in an old Hydor constant flow powerhead) and nearly instantly with the added random flow the LPS got puffy/full. Next on a whim I heard the ATO topping off more than usual. Upon checking the mechanical media tray was overflowing allowing enough water to spill over the edge of the sump. Not total disaster. Didn't lose enough water to affect salinity. Here is where it gets interesting. The filters were changed only a couple of weeks ago. Typically I get nearly 6 weeks from the blue/white & polyfilter. During the change I noticed they did not appear as filthy as usual. The skimmer also wasn't pulling quite the dark volume of gunk. My hypothesis here is that the increased carbon dosing (Vinegar/Vodka/RODI) was contributing to the sticky water I described earlier in the thread. Over the past two days I've cut the carbon dosing 40% (25ml daily to 15ml). Along with reduced lighting intensity after watching a video where Dana Riddle explains photosynthesis/light/alk, I opted for more flow. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBktpJ3umAs Ill leave the carbon dosing at 15ml for a few more days and likely do a 15g water change this weekend to further reduce the residual remaining slime/sticky from the water. Let's see were this takes me. __________________ 90g Mixed Reef

04/19/2018, 10:16 PM	#46
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	The LPS might be making progress. That's good news. I am not sure what the carbon dosing change might do. I think it's worth trying, though. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

04/21/2018, 08:19 AM	#47
RobZilla04 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: St. Augustine, FL Posts: 1,857	Day 3 of higher flow and 40% less organic carbon dosing and wow, what a difference. LPS are puffy again and the spots of algae growth on the polyps have receeded significantly. Even gone in a few spots. I'll try to update with pix today or tomorrow. Assuming my interpretation of flow was skewed. Just glad I'm on the right track now. __________________ 90g Mixed Reef

04/21/2018, 02:19 PM	#48
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Now that's great news! I'll be interested in the updates. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

04/22/2018, 09:37 AM	#49
RobZilla04 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: St. Augustine, FL Posts: 1,857	Update: Day 4 with easily double the flow I had previously. More cell pix (still working out my DSLR and aquarium pix). Test results from this morning: Alk - 8.3 dKH Cal - 405 Mag - ? Nitrates - 5-10ppm Po4 - .02 On to the pix. A little difference but the overall improvement has been in the health and appearance of everything together. I lost the small monti in the first set of pix, but this monti was displaying paling/whitning along with algae growth. The algae is much more contained and starting to receed. These candy cane trumpets were looking droopy and had the beginning of algae spots. The remaining dark spots that can be seen are small, fading, and the coral appear to be beating them off. Again sorry for the crappy cell pix. Tried to get this done before getting busy with my day. __________________ 90g Mixed Reef Last edited by RobZilla04; 04/22/2018 at 10:04 AM.

04/22/2018, 01:33 PM	#50
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Okay, the corals seem to have turned the corner. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni