Need some help with Stonies!

Nanook · 07/17/2018, 07:15 PM

Howdy,

I started my 470g Acropora dominant tank January 12th with fresh live rock from Fiji, about 400 pounds total.

By January 30th I was cycled with Nitrate of 9ppm. Nitrate continued to climb because I stocked heavily with fish (45 in total-most small) I had in a large tub since I had taken my tanks down last year for a new look.

Nitrate readings over the next few weeks were:

March 9th 15ppm
March 27th 18ppm

April 13th started vinegar dosing. I have been at 130cc/day vinegar and one shot glass of vodka for a few months. Today I decreased the dosing pump on my vinegar down to 65cc/day based on the below readings.

May 4th 26ppm
May 8th 35ppm
May 31st 17ppm
June 9th 11ppm
June 21st 4ppm
June 29th 9ppm
July 7th 4ppm
July 17th 1ppm

During this time period, I bought frags from four hobbyists here on RC with solid, awesome frags. The issue I am having is the frags have been turning brown, then dying off...some from the tips, some from the sides, some from the bases.

Of note, my alkalinity has been 7.1-7.4 this whole time without any dosing regimen or calcium reactor hooked up yet. Phosphate has consistently been 0.03 to 0.06 on Hanna low range fancy meter.

One other factor during this time period was switching out my four 250 watt Radiums on M80 ballasts to four 400 watt Ushio 14K on M135 pulse start ballasts. I didn't acclimate to light and many acropora turned brown on the tips or sides facing the light. I wasn't anticipating this light change to cause issues, but perhaps it was responsible for some of the issues.

My question now is, do you think the carbon dosing has been contributing to the decline of my acropora frags and eventual death? Or, was it just the lighting change on June 7th? I can not put my finger on why I am losing stuff. My flow is four Tunze Streams 2 6205's and two 6105's, looks like a lot of flow.

I am just at a loss because I have some really nice stuff from folks and have been slowly seeing things STN.

swk · 07/17/2018, 07:18 PM

Sounds like you’re a victim of your carbon dosing routine. I find it wholly unnecessary and more trouble than help in sps tanks.

Just my 2 cents.

Nanook · 07/17/2018, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swk

Sounds like you’re a victim of your carbon dosing routine. I find it wholly unnecessary and more trouble than help in sps tanks.

Just my 2 cents.

Is there evidence of what it does to cause acropora to STN? Is this common?

StarF · 07/18/2018, 07:02 AM

what is youre po4?`(use a proper testkit for it)

to little nutrience gave me simmilar problems, brown sps corals, and death... I always read that brown = nutrience. But it turned out my po4 kit was reading wrong, and i had 0.0..

So i added pure po4, and tried to keep my no3 at 2-5 and po4, around 0.02-0.05, with greath results....

Jndragon79 · 07/18/2018, 07:06 AM

I agree with swk. I used to use bio pellets thinking it was best to have no nutrients in the water. My acros would brown out and then bleach. I think the water was way too clean for them. After doing some research, some nitrate and phosphate are actually needed. I've gone back to keeping it simple and have not had a related issue like that in awhile.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Nanook · 07/18/2018, 07:53 AM

My phosphate is usually .03-.06.

I wasn’t going for zero, I was aiming for 5-10 nitrate. I’m wondering if backing off to achieve that would still work, or if I should stop dosing altogether.

swk · 07/18/2018, 07:57 AM

I will say this - it’s all whatever you want to do. But if you’re trying to dial in acropora, then having the least amount of variables is always better. Once you have flourishing corals if you want to mess around then do one thing at a time This way if the tank takes a dive you’ll have a better idea of what’s going on.

Also - my tank has no3 of 30+ and po4 around .1-.2 and have zero algae issues and pretty acropora.

Nanook · 07/18/2018, 08:11 AM

Appreciate the answers. I think I’ll stop dosing, see where things stand and do a couple of water changes. I’ll try feeding conservatively and give it time to stabilize.

Greg 45 · 07/18/2018, 05:08 PM

Nanook read the article tank parameters of the masters. Also Richard Ross article. I was in a similar boat trying to keep number in check and was loosing the battle. I stopped checking nitrates and phosphate and feed the crap out of the tank till everything started to color back up. All I keep stable is alk at 9.0 . Big clams I purchased stayed brown after they ere shipped for weeks till I started to feed the tank .

Nanook · 07/18/2018, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg 45

Nanook read the article tank parameters of the masters. Also Richard Ross article. I was in a similar boat trying to keep number in check and was loosing the battle. I stopped checking nitrates and phosphate and feed the crap out of the tank till everything started to color back up. All I keep stable is alk at 9.0 . Big clams I purchased stayed brown after they ere shipped for weeks till I started to feed the tank .

Good article, thanks! I think I’ll get back to basics and try to control nutrients with water changes, maybe a fuge. I was seeing high nitrate early on due to over stocking and over feeding. Panicked and started dosing, but it’s a bit too tricky for me!

jda · 07/18/2018, 07:55 PM

Do you have sand? If so, then it will eventually get enough anoxic zones to manage the nitrate below one, but with still some/enough to keep stuff thriving. Unfortunately, this can take almost a year and is the last part of the true N cycle - turning NO3 into N gas.

I also do not advocate using organic carbon in a acropora tank unless you are REALLY looking to fine tune for a specific purpose... like a ZEOVit reef. In this case, the tanks are usually ultra-stable and established and the reefer can spot any issues very quickly.

Nanook · 07/18/2018, 08:05 PM

I have a 4” deep sand bed, probably 3” in some places and 6” in others due to the high flow I have with all my tunze pumps.

jda · 07/18/2018, 08:10 PM

You will eventually see the nitrate start to fall. The organic carbon dosing probably set them back by starving them of some food, but they will catch back up.

Being a fellow big-tank guy... if you need backup flow, then keep EcoDrift 20 in mind... they move more water than a 6200. I do not expect them to last as long as Tunze, but they get water to the other side of a 10 foot tank.

Sorry for the derail, but I wish that I had known about these years ago.

07/17/2018, 07:15 PM	#1
Nanook Ancient Eskimo Legend Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Saint Louis, MO Posts: 41,852 Blog Entries: 11	Need some help with Stonies! Howdy, I started my 470g Acropora dominant tank January 12th with fresh live rock from Fiji, about 400 pounds total. By January 30th I was cycled with Nitrate of 9ppm. Nitrate continued to climb because I stocked heavily with fish (45 in total-most small) I had in a large tub since I had taken my tanks down last year for a new look. Nitrate readings over the next few weeks were: March 9th 15ppm March 27th 18ppm April 13th started vinegar dosing. I have been at 130cc/day vinegar and one shot glass of vodka for a few months. Today I decreased the dosing pump on my vinegar down to 65cc/day based on the below readings. May 4th 26ppm May 8th 35ppm May 31st 17ppm June 9th 11ppm June 21st 4ppm June 29th 9ppm July 7th 4ppm July 17th 1ppm During this time period, I bought frags from four hobbyists here on RC with solid, awesome frags. The issue I am having is the frags have been turning brown, then dying off...some from the tips, some from the sides, some from the bases. Of note, my alkalinity has been 7.1-7.4 this whole time without any dosing regimen or calcium reactor hooked up yet. Phosphate has consistently been 0.03 to 0.06 on Hanna low range fancy meter. One other factor during this time period was switching out my four 250 watt Radiums on M80 ballasts to four 400 watt Ushio 14K on M135 pulse start ballasts. I didn't acclimate to light and many acropora turned brown on the tips or sides facing the light. I wasn't anticipating this light change to cause issues, but perhaps it was responsible for some of the issues. My question now is, do you think the carbon dosing has been contributing to the decline of my acropora frags and eventual death? Or, was it just the lighting change on June 7th? I can not put my finger on why I am losing stuff. My flow is four Tunze Streams 2 6205's and two 6105's, looks like a lot of flow. I am just at a loss because I have some really nice stuff from folks and have been slowly seeing things STN. __________________ The wind blew, the chit flew, and then they came two by two. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Current Tank Info: 375g Tanganyikan Tank & 470g mixed reef

07/17/2018, 07:18 PM	#2
swk Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Wine Country CA Posts: 2,593	Sounds like you’re a victim of your carbon dosing routine. I find it wholly unnecessary and more trouble than help in sps tanks. Just my 2 cents. __________________ Member of Wine Country Reefers Current Tank Info: 75 gal SPS dominant reef. Geo calcium reactor with masterflex pump, Deltec 1455 skimmer, 2 mp40QD, mp10wes, lit by a 6x54 dimable ATI sunpower and controlled by Reef Angel

07/18/2018, 07:02 AM	#4
StarF Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Denmark Posts: 586	what is youre po4?`(use a proper testkit for it) to little nutrience gave me simmilar problems, brown sps corals, and death... I always read that brown = nutrience. But it turned out my po4 kit was reading wrong, and i had 0.0.. So i added pure po4, and tried to keep my no3 at 2-5 and po4, around 0.02-0.05, with greath results.... Last edited by StarF; 07/18/2018 at 07:21 AM.

07/18/2018, 07:53 AM	#6
Nanook Ancient Eskimo Legend Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Saint Louis, MO Posts: 41,852 Blog Entries: 11	My phosphate is usually .03-.06. I wasn’t going for zero, I was aiming for 5-10 nitrate. I’m wondering if backing off to achieve that would still work, or if I should stop dosing altogether. __________________ The wind blew, the chit flew, and then they came two by two. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Current Tank Info: 375g Tanganyikan Tank & 470g mixed reef

07/18/2018, 07:57 AM	#7
swk Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Wine Country CA Posts: 2,593	I will say this - it’s all whatever you want to do. But if you’re trying to dial in acropora, then having the least amount of variables is always better. Once you have flourishing corals if you want to mess around then do one thing at a time This way if the tank takes a dive you’ll have a better idea of what’s going on. Also - my tank has no3 of 30+ and po4 around .1-.2 and have zero algae issues and pretty acropora. __________________ Member of Wine Country Reefers Current Tank Info: 75 gal SPS dominant reef. Geo calcium reactor with masterflex pump, Deltec 1455 skimmer, 2 mp40QD, mp10wes, lit by a 6x54 dimable ATI sunpower and controlled by Reef Angel

07/18/2018, 07:06 AM	#5
Jndragon79 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 127	I agree with swk. I used to use bio pellets thinking it was best to have no nutrients in the water. My acros would brown out and then bleach. I think the water was way too clean for them. After doing some research, some nitrate and phosphate are actually needed. I've gone back to keeping it simple and have not had a related issue like that in awhile. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

07/18/2018, 08:11 AM	#8
Nanook Ancient Eskimo Legend Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Saint Louis, MO Posts: 41,852 Blog Entries: 11	Appreciate the answers. I think I’ll stop dosing, see where things stand and do a couple of water changes. I’ll try feeding conservatively and give it time to stabilize. __________________ The wind blew, the chit flew, and then they came two by two. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Current Tank Info: 375g Tanganyikan Tank & 470g mixed reef

07/18/2018, 05:08 PM	#9
Greg 45 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bayonne,N.J. Posts: 1,159	Nanook read the article tank parameters of the masters. Also Richard Ross article. I was in a similar boat trying to keep number in check and was loosing the battle. I stopped checking nitrates and phosphate and feed the crap out of the tank till everything started to color back up. All I keep stable is alk at 9.0 . Big clams I purchased stayed brown after they ere shipped for weeks till I started to feed the tank .

07/18/2018, 07:55 PM	#11
jda Dogmatic Dinosaur Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 6,256	Do you have sand? If so, then it will eventually get enough anoxic zones to manage the nitrate below one, but with still some/enough to keep stuff thriving. Unfortunately, this can take almost a year and is the last part of the true N cycle - turning NO3 into N gas. I also do not advocate using organic carbon in a acropora tank unless you are REALLY looking to fine tune for a specific purpose... like a ZEOVit reef. In this case, the tanks are usually ultra-stable and established and the reefer can spot any issues very quickly.

07/18/2018, 08:05 PM	#12
Nanook Ancient Eskimo Legend Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Saint Louis, MO Posts: 41,852 Blog Entries: 11	I have a 4” deep sand bed, probably 3” in some places and 6” in others due to the high flow I have with all my tunze pumps. __________________ The wind blew, the chit flew, and then they came two by two. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Current Tank Info: 375g Tanganyikan Tank & 470g mixed reef

07/18/2018, 08:10 PM	#13
jda Dogmatic Dinosaur Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 6,256	You will eventually see the nitrate start to fall. The organic carbon dosing probably set them back by starving them of some food, but they will catch back up. Being a fellow big-tank guy... if you need backup flow, then keep EcoDrift 20 in mind... they move more water than a 6200. I do not expect them to last as long as Tunze, but they get water to the other side of a 10 foot tank. Sorry for the derail, but I wish that I had known about these years ago.