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Unread 04/18/2019, 07:01 AM   #1
deputydog95
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SPS Symptoms of high P04 levels?

I recently noticed a lot of my SPS are looking pretty faded. Some have died completely off, other have burnt tips and some STN on the base. They all around look like crap right now.

I immediately checked numbers and the dkh was 10 and the phosphates were .10, which is up from my usual .04

I have algae growth on the tips, the glass, etc... Which is kind of strange as I don't overfeed, use RODI water, run the skimmer 24/7, change filter pads every other day, and do 10% water changes weekly. I did have a small bag of GFO which had been sitting in the sump that was hard as a rock, so I'm assuming it's exhausted and wasn't working anymore.

Is .10 really that high to cause this much havoc, or do you think I have something else going on here?

I have lowered my dkh to about 9 to be on the safe side (burnt tips), and have also added a bad of chemipure blue as of yesterday which spike my ORP from around 330 to 380.

Thoughts?


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Unread 04/18/2019, 07:16 AM   #2
kimmi2413
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My po4 level has been at 0.24 for the past month or longer and sps seem to be doing perfectly fine. I’ve always wondered if po4 really mattered so let’s see what others have to say


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Unread 04/18/2019, 09:27 AM   #3
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Depends, if you have zero nitrates, it definitely can be a problem.


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Unread 04/18/2019, 09:29 AM   #4
dubmaneh
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What are your nitrates at? I get similar issues when the ratio of N03:PO4 gets wonky.

Best growth for me occurs when they are around 100:1 ratio.


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Unread 04/18/2019, 09:46 AM   #5
deputydog95
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Nitrates are at 5. Seems reasonable, right?

I turned my alk/ca dosing down the other day and the dkh is rising. It's back up to 10 today. So the corals are clearly not using it.

I'm turning off the dosing for the time being.

I have a carbon pad, a poly filter, and a 75 gallon chemipure blue in there. I had the poly filter and the carbon pad lying around. Trying to rule out something bad in the water so I put them in with the chemi pure blue.

My ultra lower phosphorous test is out of regagent, so I used the phophate hanna. Came it at .03, but it's off like .04, so it's probably .07 still.

I'm not sure what the heck is going on. Did a 10 gallon water change yesterday, and one on the previous Fri.

Everything is still super ****ed...


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Unread 04/18/2019, 10:04 AM   #6
dubmaneh
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N03 seems reasonable. Don’t think the elevated PO4 is the problem-will cause algae to grow over already damaged issue but most likely not the root cause.

What do you normally keep dkh at, what salt do you use and have you made any changes at all recently?



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Unread 04/18/2019, 10:54 AM   #7
deputydog95
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No changes that I've done intentionally...

I typically keep the alkalinity at a DKH of 10.

The fish seem fine, nothing out of the ordinary. The SPS corals are getting worse by the day.

The tank is primarily SPS, and is about 3 years old.

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Unread 04/18/2019, 11:00 AM   #8
dubmaneh
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What are you using to dose ca/alk?


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Unread 04/18/2019, 11:00 AM   #9
cboltsd
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Originally Posted by deputydog95 View Post
No changes that I've done intentionally...

I typically keep the alkalinity at a DKH of 10.

The fish seem fine, nothing out of the ordinary. The SPS corals are getting worse by the day.

The tank is primarily SPS, and is about 3 years old.

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I went through something similar a couple months ago. Montis first showed discoloration, then SPS began to stn. I bought an Triton ICP test and sent in right away. I would suggest you do the same otherwise your just guessing. I ended up having a fair amount of low trace elements that I would never test for normally. I dosed like Triton suggested and it his made an incredible turn around and is rocking again. It's worth the 50$.

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Unread 04/18/2019, 11:07 AM   #10
dubmaneh
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I went through something similar a couple months ago. Montis first showed discoloration, then SPS began to stn. I bought an Triton ICP test and sent in right away. I would suggest you do the same otherwise your just guessing. I ended up having a fair amount of low trace elements that I would never test for normally. I dosed like Triton suggested and it his made an incredible turn around and is rocking again. It's worth the 50$.

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Unread 04/18/2019, 11:11 AM   #11
dubmaneh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cboltsd View Post
I went through something similar a couple months ago. Montis first showed discoloration, then SPS began to stn. I bought an Triton ICP test and sent in right away. I would suggest you do the same otherwise your just guessing. I ended up having a fair amount of low trace elements that I would never test for normally. I dosed like Triton suggested and it his made an incredible turn around and is rocking again. It's worth the 50$.

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I had the same thing happen. Best $50 I’ve spent in this hobby. Did a Triton test and found out iodine and potassium were low. Once I switched to ESV and brought those levels up everything started growing again.

I can now tell when iodine is low by looking at my montis!


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Unread 04/18/2019, 11:16 AM   #12
deputydog95
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I have a pre paid test I haven't used yet. I'll go ahead and turn it in. It's not Triton but something similar in the US. Results come back faster.

I would be surprised if I have a trace element deficiency though.

I do water changes with red sea blue bucket once a week and dose Reef Fusion A/B daily via a dosing pump. Both products have trace elements.

But then again, who knows?

I forgot I had that ICP test so thanks for reminding me.

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Unread 04/18/2019, 11:17 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubmaneh View Post
What are you using to dose ca/alk?


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Sea Chem Reef Fusion A and B. Been using it for around 2 years now.

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Unread 04/18/2019, 11:19 AM   #14
cboltsd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubmaneh View Post
I had the same thing happen. Best $50 I’ve spent in this hobby. Did a Triton test and found out iodine and potassium were low. Once I switched to ESV and brought those levels up everything started growing again.

I can now tell when iodine is low by looking at my montis!


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I had similar results. My potassium and boron were low. Including strontium and iodine. After dosing like Triton said, I was back in business.

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Unread 04/18/2019, 03:40 PM   #15
deputydog95
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I sent my sample in to ICP analysis.com a few mins ago. Can't believe I forgot I had one laying around...

It'll be there on Monday as the company is in Colorado.

Heading to my local LFS to have them test my water as well to validate my results.

Anything I should do in the meantime?

Would 10 percent water changes every other day be a good idea? If there's a toxin it should reduce it and if there's a trace element deficiency, it should brng it up.

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Unread 04/19/2019, 01:53 PM   #16
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I think it may be your dosing schedule. I use Red Sea blue bucket also and alk consistently tests around 7-8 DKH when I make my new water. I also had issues when I dosed A & B with SPS rtn. Could never get alk steady using that method. It would spike and then go down when I did water change. I since started using a calcium reactor and this solved my issues and it keeps my alk steady at 8.5. New sps are doing well with polyp extensions all day.


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Unread 04/22/2019, 02:52 PM   #17
deputydog95
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So I got my ICP results back...

I'm suspect about Arsenic reading... Let's just say it's accurate even though I don't think it is based on the number of posts I've seen about issues related to ICP and arsenic. How would I bring that down?

Any idea why my Bromine levels would be so high? I certainly don't add it individually...

Iodine seems like an easy fix.

I have idea what to do about Potassium. It's not in my A&B and Red Sea lists K levels at normal sea parameters. How in the world do I bring that down?


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Unread 04/24/2019, 10:09 AM   #18
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Is your salinity at 1.029(39ppt)?


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Unread 04/25/2019, 06:09 AM   #19
dubmaneh
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Start with your iodine. It’s the easiest fix. You’ll be surprised at how much it takes to raise and keep levels stable.


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Unread 04/25/2019, 10:22 AM   #20
deputydog95
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Is your salinity at 1.029(39ppt)?
No, it's 35ppt. I don't know how reliable the ICP is with salinity. Between the shipping process and temp deviations, hard to say. That's a good question though.

I use a calibrated Hannah and check it against a 35ppt reference solution every so often.

The Apex, for the most part, confirms the reading on the Milwaukee.

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Unread 04/25/2019, 10:34 AM   #21
deputydog95
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Start with your iodine. It’s the easiest fix. You’ll be surprised at how much it takes to raise and keep levels stable.


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Agreed.

I just bought potassium and iodine test kits yesterday. Red sea.

I tried the potassium test kit. Wow, was that a pita and took forever. It's almost 20 mins of just waiting...

I'll try the iodine one today. I have the red sea trace elements but haven't been dosing them because I didn't feel comfortable adding anything without testing for it.

I guess I'll have to get the iodine worked out.

I do 10 percent water changes (red sea blue bucket) on a weekly basis and would have thought that would be taking care of the trace elements nicely. My magnesium is always a little high and I dont dose that either.

So far I've done 4 ten gallon water changes in the past ten 10 days to hopefully bring down the potassium.

Which I still can't figure out why the potassium levels are off the charts in my tank since I don't dose potassium and there isn't potassium in my AB liquids.

I tested the blue bucket mixture and it came in at around 440, freshly mixed. Would probably drop some after it sits for 24 hours I'm guessing.

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Unread 04/25/2019, 10:55 AM   #22
cboltsd
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Agreed.

I just bought potassium and iodine test kits yesterday. Red sea.

I tried the potassium test kit. Wow, was that a pita and took forever. It's almost 20 mins of just waiting...

I'll try the iodine one today. I have the red sea trace elements but haven't been dosing them because I didn't feel comfortable adding anything without testing for it.

I guess I'll have to get the iodine worked out.

I do 10 percent water changes (red sea blue bucket) on a weekly basis and would have thought that would be taking care of the trace elements nicely. My magnesium is always a little high and I dont dose that either.

So far I've done 4 ten gallon water changes in the past ten 10 days to hopefully bring down the potassium.

Which I still can't figure out why the potassium levels are off the charts in my tank since I don't dose potassium and there isn't potassium in my AB liquids.

I tested the blue bucket mixture and it came in at around 440, freshly mixed. Would probably drop some after it sits for 24 hours I'm guessing.

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The Triton one gives you quite a few recommendations as to why levels may be off and suggested fixes. I'm assuming the one you used did not?

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Unread 04/25/2019, 11:04 AM   #23
dubmaneh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deputydog95 View Post
Agreed.

I just bought potassium and iodine test kits yesterday. Red sea.

I tried the potassium test kit. Wow, was that a pita and took forever. It's almost 20 mins of just waiting...

I'll try the iodine one today. I have the red sea trace elements but haven't been dosing them because I didn't feel comfortable adding anything without testing for it.

I guess I'll have to get the iodine worked out.

I do 10 percent water changes (red sea blue bucket) on a weekly basis and would have thought that would be taking care of the trace elements nicely. My magnesium is always a little high and I dont dose that either.

So far I've done 4 ten gallon water changes in the past ten 10 days to hopefully bring down the potassium.

Which I still can't figure out why the potassium levels are off the charts in my tank since I don't dose potassium and there isn't potassium in my AB liquids.

I tested the blue bucket mixture and it came in at around 440, freshly mixed. Would probably drop some after it sits for 24 hours I'm guessing.

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I used the Red Sea elements to raise my iodine and potassium but found aqua vitro vibrance to be much more cost effective for iodine. Still use Red Sea for potassium though.

FWIW I had to dose around 3ml of the vibrance twice per day to raise levels and then backed off to a 2.5ml daily maintenance dose. On a 60gal net volume.




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Unread 04/25/2019, 11:20 AM   #24
deputydog95
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The Triton one gives you quite a few recommendations as to why levels may be off and suggested fixes. I'm assuming the one you used did not?

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No, I used ICP analysis.com out of Colorado.

I've done the Triton test before but it takes a long time to get the results.

Downside is they don't give you mich advice on how to fix it.

I did email them to confirm the results and they suggested a massive water change.

Which probably would help but I'm a little hesitant changing that much water so quickly in a SPS tank.

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Unread 04/25/2019, 11:58 AM   #25
deputydog95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubmaneh View Post
I used the Red Sea elements to raise my iodine and potassium but found aqua vitro vibrance to be much more cost effective for iodine. Still use Red Sea for potassium though.

FWIW I had to dose around 3ml of the vibrance twice per day to raise levels and then backed off to a 2.5ml daily maintenance dose. On a 60gal net volume.




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So you're actually dosing daily for both Iodine and Potassium?


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