Refugium too large?

[k2skibum]

I'm new to the hobby and this is my first thread on reef central, so bear with me.

I planning on putting together a 90gallon reef tank. I would like to do things "naturally" (i.e. lots of protein skimming and a refugium). I've been trying to find information about proper sizing and flow rates in a refugium, and it seems like the general consensus is 10% of display tank volume. My question is... Is it possible to have a refugium that is too large?

(I have an extra 55 gallon tank I want to use as a sump. With protein skimming on one end and a refugium on the other end..feeding the return pump in the center)

Originally I was planning on incorporating a DSB or Plenum in my display tank, and for aesthetic reasons, I've decided to do this in a the refugium. From what I read, the concern with a disproportionate refugium size is that there wouldn't be enough nutrients to support macro/mangrove growth. However, couldn't I have a large refugium in order to increase my NNR in the DSB and then limit how much macro/mangrove growth I have based on the expected bioload?

Any other disadvantages to large refugiums?

Just something that's been weighing on my mind, so I thought I'd ask the experts!

Thanks everyone!

-m

[WhoDat?]

Your refugium is best if it is as large as possible.... You can't go wrong... I have a 90 gallon bowfront and all I could fit under the cabinet was a 20g high as a refugium... If I could have fit another 90 gallon under the cabinet I would have... The more water volume you have the better.... More stability... Good luck!!

[Mad_Reefer]

You can always feed your fuge if you think it is too big. I don't think it can be too big.

[Sychobunny21]

Unless you seriously understock your tank there will be plenty of exess nutrients for your fuge.

[Sisterlimonpot]

BTW

To Reef Central

[schro]

+1 on a larger refugium.

DON'T DO A PLENUM!

"the presence of a plenum has no measurable benefits over simply depositing the same sediments directly on the bottom of the aquarium" (Toonen & Wee)
Full article: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/6/aafeature#h5

[spleify]

To Reef Central

I am of the same opinion as the others, go as big as you can. The more water the better!

I too, would avoid the plenum.

[drparker]

The bigger the better, if you have the space and money nothing wrong with the sump/fuge being bigger than the DT. I'm upgrading the one on my 75g the sump will be a 40g breeder with a separate 35g fuge.

The 55 you have will make a nice fuge. Skimmers have a certain height they like the water to be at so either build the baffles to that height or build a stand for the skimmer.

[k2skibum]

Thanks for the advice and the warm welcome, everybody!

[Frick-n-Frags]

heh, my general consensus also agrees more with what has been posted in this thread.

To clear up confusion for you and anyone else new who is reading, there is no RULE about a fuge. a fuge by definition is merely a secondary box of water to the main display tank(DT) that you need to keep something separated from the DT.

once you realize this, THEN you can tailor the size to it's intended use. like a chaeto tub wouldnt need to be really big, but a fuge to hold an aggresive fish for example might be another tank the same size as your DT.

[gdsmith56]

I agree with the other comments on the size but I'm more curious about the design. If you have the skimmer on one end and the fuge on the other with the return in the center, where will water enter the sump? In my mind, I see it entering on the end with the skimmer - so, will you have enough water flow to allow movement of water on the fuge end? You don't want the fuge flow to be so low that the water stagnates, but the full force of the 90's drain into the fuge could also be to much.

[drparker]

I current have the split design with the return in the middle. I split the flow from my DT so that 75% goes to the skimmer.

[Daimyo68]

Originally Posted by gdsmith56

I agree with the other comments on the size but I'm more curious about the design. If you have the skimmer on one end and the fuge on the other with the return in the center, where will water enter the sump? In my mind, I see it entering on the end with the skimmer - so, will you have enough water flow to allow movement of water on the fuge end? You don't want the fuge flow to be so low that the water stagnates, but the full force of the 90's drain into the fuge could also be to much.

Draining from the tank directly into the fuge is never a good idea, it becomes a Detritus Dump, being that the water had not been mechanically filtered by way of a sponge or sock filter.

Most designs, like the one the OP is thinking of, Skimmer>Return

[k2skibum]

Yeah, my thought was to have two drains from the DT. The drain to the skimmer side of the sump would have to be large enough to accommodate the full flow of the return pump. The other drain into the refugium would have a gate valve on it to dial in the proper flow through the refugium. I was also planning on designing the refugium to leave the option of adding a filter sock if necessary.

[DC_40gallon]

Agreed, can't be too big. I've known people who like the growing part of refugiums and have a 55 gallon DT and a 90 gallon refugium/sump.

[thegrun]

Bigger is better. I prefer Filter Sock/Skimmer>Refugium>Return layout. Cheato does well with a lot of flow, so I don't see a need to split the incoming line. I like to use a filter sock as long as you don't mind changing them out every 3 days. Mangroves grow so slowly that they are of little value for nutrient export, so unless you are growing them for aesthetic reasons, I would stick to live rock and cheato in the refugium.

[drparker]

Originally Posted by Daimyo68

Draining from the tank directly into the fuge is never a good idea, it becomes a Detritus Dump, being that the water had not been mechanically filtered by way of a sponge or sock filter.

To each his own, I prefer to run no mechanical filters in my system and just have flow keep everything stirred up. Once every few months I'll really stir things up and a run a sock for a day. But I feel the direct flow helps feed what I'm trying to cultivate in my fuge.

[Larah]

Mine is filter sock/ fuge/ skimmer/ DT...
and it's not big enough! The bigger the better!

[billdogg]

my 150 DT has a 50g sump, and a seperate 120g fuge. GO LARGE!!!

[Daimyo68]

Originally Posted by drparker

To each his own, I prefer to run no mechanical filters in my system and just have flow keep everything stirred up. Once every few months I'll really stir things up and a run a sock for a day. But I feel the direct flow helps feed what I'm trying to cultivate in my fuge.

Do you have a DSB in your fuge or shallow? I'm curious I was thinking about not running a sock but with the DSB, stirring up the SB in there kind of defeats the purpose. Unless maybe your just stirring the very surface?

[drparker]

I just use a turkey baster to lightly blast the surface of the sand in display and fuge I also use it on all rock work, corals and the bottom of the sump. With plenty of flow I just need to lift any settled detritus into the stream.

Sometimes I won't even run the sock after using the baster because the skimmer pulls a lot of it out. The socks are just a pain and the easier I can make it the better.

[arrowheadpuffer]

I ran a 90g with 55g fuge for the past 4-5 years, (just took it down for a home remodel) 6"+ DSB and chaeto lit by 220VHO. Over the last year I only did two water changes, and my nitrates were still hardly detectable.

[one clownfish]

^1 for the bigger the better you won't regret it. You'll always find something to put in it, rock,frag rack,bad fish. lol

[reefscape15]

There is a LFS near me that has a 180g and 90g display both plumbed together with 2 HUGE (3' x 5') Brute tubs set up as fuges. There's got to be over 400gal of water in the fuge and only maybe 250gal in the display tanks.

[Chiefsurfer]

yet another +1 on the bigger the better. With a tank as big as a 55 for a sump, and I don't want to confuse you any more than you already are, think of combining the DSB and macro into one. Look into what's called a sea grass refugium. Because people usually use smaller sumps than can handle this, it is rather impracticle for most. A tank that size, might be something very cool to think about. I was just thinking I would want to use my 55 as a sump for my 90 or 120 whenever I get my own place.