Stand vs radiant floor heat

ewauk · 01/06/2018, 07:45 AM

So, I've done some poking around to see if this has been an issue that's been discussed before, not too much that I've found.
I am starting a kitchen/dining room remodel and the new flooring will be heated using cable in a mortar bed over a crawl space. I've contacted the manufacturer of the cable to find out some specifics and they told me that the floor needs around 6 inches of clearance to vent off the heat properly. That leads me to my new problem.
I could easily skip the footprint of the tank, because it's a part of my family but...That would be pretty shady to sell to someone in the future that wouldn't have the tank, but they'd have a nice cold 2×6 area of tile. That won't work.
So, I know I'm not going to find a commercial stand that has been engineered to vent underneath.
Does anyone have any suggestions for construction of a stand that will allow the venting and still look like a piece of furniture?
I'm not concerned about anything that has to do with the flooring venting itself, I'm concerned about the floor cooking the sump because the heat has built up into an out of control hot plate.
I could be over thinking the temperature problem but if there's anything I've learned from this "hobby" (lifestyle) Murphy's law applies to everything ×2 so catch it before it happens.

mcgyvr · 01/06/2018, 08:05 AM

Just build any stand and include legs on it to raise it if you really want..

JTL · 01/06/2018, 08:08 AM

Raise the floor inside of the stand by 6" and leave the back of the raised space open.

ewauk · 01/06/2018, 08:43 AM

That's the direction I was heading, John, thanks. Maybe a couple of pc fans to help it through.
I had already decided against the point load of the individual legs type design.

JTL · 01/06/2018, 10:01 AM

Probably don't even need the fans, actually the warmth in the winter months may be a blessing.

Windy2 · 01/06/2018, 10:15 AM

Mark off the area of the floor under the tank and have your contractor make a second circuit for the heat under the tank. Leave that lead disconnected in the electrical box. When you move have it tied into the rest of the floor by connecting that wire to the thermostat. It should be quite easy to do!

Sk8r · 01/06/2018, 10:43 AM

I think that ^ is a fine idea. Prospective buyers may have other things, like a freezer, they don't want heated from underneath.

2000se · 01/06/2018, 10:57 AM

May not be as easy. These heated floors are all one loooooong wire.

We've done a few rooms with them. One side of the the thermostat is connected to the electrical panel, the other side of the thermostat is connected to the floor the keep the floor a specified temp. The loooong thermal wire under the floor has no breaks and has to be a specific resistance. Tying another set of resistance heated flooring into the same thermostat would not work.

Go to Warmly yours dot com. They will show you what the floors look like and how it is a long wire to heat the floor. I feel having the stand elevated would be a better option.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windy2

Mark off the area of the floor under the tank and have your contractor make a second circuit for the heat under the tank. Leave that lead disconnected in the electrical box. When you move have it tied into the rest of the floor by connecting that wire to the thermostat. It should be quite easy to do!

Vinny Kreyling · 01/06/2018, 11:42 AM

When we had the apt. built we put radiant heat in all the floors.
I left out a 4 foot area from the wall the tank sits on.

ewauk · 01/06/2018, 03:31 PM

I think building a new stand with the inside floor of the stand raised to vent may be best way to go. A plus will be the tank being a little closer to eye level. Yes, right now in Indiana, the heated floor would probably be a good thing for the tank.
This past week, it was warmer in Alaska!

don_chuwish · 01/07/2018, 02:16 PM

The tile doesn't really get all that warm - it just removes the chill off it. Walking around barefoot you can feel a nice pleasant difference, but your hand an inch above the floor won't feel it. I wouldn't worry about tank temps at all. I'm even surprised the manufacturer is all that concerned. But I do like the idea of creating a 'toe kick' like raised area - then just vent that on each side with a grill of some kind. Also helps remove any trapped moisture if you spill water and it gets under the stand.

PhishyRupert · 01/09/2018, 06:27 PM

I can’t see it cooking the tank, will only assist and help not kick on heaters as often.

Diana A · 01/09/2018, 09:40 PM

I have radiant heated floors. You don't have to worry about your sump temp rising because it won't effect it much. The only thing different is that your sump heater won't run at all. My tank temp is usually around 72 with room temp at 73

der_wille_zur_macht · 01/10/2018, 06:49 AM

I don't think the concern is "cooking" the tank, rather you're not allowing the floor to radiate heat evenly. One portion of the floor will be exposed to free air, and will be able to give off heat. Another portion will be "trapped" under the stand, which may mean it can/can't radiate heat as effectively. The difference means the flooring materials will be thermally stressed differently, which can cause issues (cracked tiles, etc.). Whether or not it'll actually be a problem is anyone's guess, but that's why the product manufacturer specifies the free space above the floor. They don't know or care about your tank's temperature.

I like the idea of raising the floor inside the stand and introducing a vent. Building a whole separate circuit for that portion of the floor seems far flung, and hard to explain down the road.

Windy2 · 01/10/2018, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2000se

May not be as easy. These heated floors are all one loooooong wire.

We've done a few rooms with them. One side of the the thermostat is connected to the electrical panel, the other side of the thermostat is connected to the floor the keep the floor a specified temp. The loooong thermal wire under the floor has no breaks and has to be a specific resistance. Tying another set of resistance heated flooring into the same thermostat would not work.

Go to Warmly yours dot com. They will show you what the floors look like and how it is a long wire to heat the floor. I feel having the stand elevated would be a better option.

Too bad you don't know what you are talking about. I have installed numerous radiant heated floors and you can have one or more circuits on any of them. So why come on here and give false information? You certainly sound like an expert talking about the looong wire.

Vinny Kreyling · 01/10/2018, 09:14 AM

My floors are heated with running water.

hijinks · 01/10/2018, 09:18 AM

The heat won't matter but if you're worried put something like this under the sump?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Reflecti...6025/100012574

Jonviviano · 01/10/2018, 10:47 AM

This thread is like

. I have radiant floor heat with my 72 bow for 5 years or more. No issues. Nor will i ever see any. A tank on top will not make a difference. Just like your curio cabinet, couches, cabinets, tv console do not make a difference. It will preform fine and you will never know the difference!

HBtank · 01/10/2018, 12:52 PM

I assume that radiant floors can have typical furniture arrangements on them.... and not only furniture with 6" legs; we all agree this will not "cook" a tank that is not already having cooling issues.

So what exactly is the problem..... why is it not considered a piece of furniture?

ewauk · 01/16/2018, 05:04 PM

I have electric "in floor" heating in multiple rooms of my home. I understand, and know first hand, how it heats. I also know the heat will build in areas that aren't able to vent.
I do not have issues with the temperature of my tank.
I had hoped that someone that had similar circumstance would be willing to share how they personally dealt with it, or if it didn't become an issue.
The purpose would be to avoid issues with the tank temperature as a forethought instead of a reaction to something that wasn't contemplated.
"Cook" may have been too strong a term for some. I wasn't being literal.
I am not familiar with water being the source of the heat but I would think that the water would be a set temperature flowing at say...76 degrees. That wouldn't fluctuate. 76 is 76.
If the floor had held the heat, the water that would flow would actually not allow the temp to climb it would act similar to a chiller. I would love that option.
Electric on the other hand, has a temp sensor placed in a specific spot in the mortar(in my case) and it will heat until the sensor is satisfied. If the sensor is allowed to vent, it will cool and ask for more... watts are really, really hot.
A new stand has been built. Thanks to everyone for their viewpoints and suggestions.

2000se · 01/19/2018, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windy2

Too bad you don't know what you are talking about. I have installed numerous radiant heated floors and you can have one or more circuits on any of them. So why come on here and give false information? You certainly sound like an expert talking about the looong wire.

.

????

https://www.warmlyyours.com/en-US/vi...heating-system

Looks like a pretty long wire to me. Not debating this anymore.

Desert Sea · 01/25/2018, 07:40 PM

I wouldn’t worry too much about the heat under the tank. It won’t be any hotter than the rest of the space. Also if your installing in a bed of mortar, the mortar will act as a heat sink and the small area under the tank will get warm even if you don’t install the heating cable there.

Scoted · 01/26/2018, 09:37 PM

As long as there is air movement between the tank and the floor you are fine! If you had a 4x2 section sitting on the floor directly the wiring in the floor could overheat causing a problem. However the build up of heat under your tank will be only in cold weather when you have the system on which will be raising the temperature at a less than problematic level (free heat). The electric heated floors take the chill out but they do not produce the heat of a boiler fed heated floor.

01/06/2018, 07:45 AM	#1
ewauk Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Crawfordsville, Indiana Posts: 9	Stand vs radiant floor heat So, I've done some poking around to see if this has been an issue that's been discussed before, not too much that I've found. I am starting a kitchen/dining room remodel and the new flooring will be heated using cable in a mortar bed over a crawl space. I've contacted the manufacturer of the cable to find out some specifics and they told me that the floor needs around 6 inches of clearance to vent off the heat properly. That leads me to my new problem. I could easily skip the footprint of the tank, because it's a part of my family but...That would be pretty shady to sell to someone in the future that wouldn't have the tank, but they'd have a nice cold 2×6 area of tile. That won't work. So, I know I'm not going to find a commercial stand that has been engineered to vent underneath. Does anyone have any suggestions for construction of a stand that will allow the venting and still look like a piece of furniture? I'm not concerned about anything that has to do with the flooring venting itself, I'm concerned about the floor cooking the sump because the heat has built up into an out of control hot plate. I could be over thinking the temperature problem but if there's anything I've learned from this "hobby" (lifestyle) Murphy's law applies to everything ×2 so catch it before it happens.

01/06/2018, 08:05 AM	#2
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Just build any stand and include legs on it to raise it if you really want.. __________________ Who me?

01/06/2018, 08:08 AM	#3
JTL Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Venice Island, FL Posts: 2,532	Raise the floor inside of the stand by 6" and leave the back of the raised space open. __________________ John 100 gallon DT and 50 gallon sump with refugium. Reefbreeders Photon V2+.

01/06/2018, 10:01 AM	#5
JTL Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Venice Island, FL Posts: 2,532	Probably don't even need the fans, actually the warmth in the winter months may be a blessing. __________________ John 100 gallon DT and 50 gallon sump with refugium. Reefbreeders Photon V2+.

01/06/2018, 10:43 AM	#7
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	I think that ^ is a fine idea. Prospective buyers may have other things, like a freezer, they don't want heated from underneath. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

01/06/2018, 08:43 AM	#4
ewauk Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Crawfordsville, Indiana Posts: 9	That's the direction I was heading, John, thanks. Maybe a couple of pc fans to help it through. I had already decided against the point load of the individual legs type design.

01/06/2018, 10:15 AM	#6
Windy2 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Washington Posts: 257	Mark off the area of the floor under the tank and have your contractor make a second circuit for the heat under the tank. Leave that lead disconnected in the electrical box. When you move have it tied into the rest of the floor by connecting that wire to the thermostat. It should be quite easy to do!

01/06/2018, 11:42 AM	#9
Vinny Kreyling Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Miller Place, NY Posts: 7,206	When we had the apt. built we put radiant heat in all the floors. I left out a 4 foot area from the wall the tank sits on. __________________ 250 gallon mixed reef, 2 Reefbreeder's Photon V 2, Deepwater BLDC 12, DAS EX-3 Skimmer, MTC mini cal, 2-3/4" Sea Swirls, Aquacontroller & 6 Tunze pumps.

01/06/2018, 03:31 PM	#10
ewauk Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Crawfordsville, Indiana Posts: 9	I think building a new stand with the inside floor of the stand raised to vent may be best way to go. A plus will be the tank being a little closer to eye level. Yes, right now in Indiana, the heated floor would probably be a good thing for the tank. This past week, it was warmer in Alaska!

01/07/2018, 02:16 PM	#11
don_chuwish Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 345	The tile doesn't really get all that warm - it just removes the chill off it. Walking around barefoot you can feel a nice pleasant difference, but your hand an inch above the floor won't feel it. I wouldn't worry about tank temps at all. I'm even surprised the manufacturer is all that concerned. But I do like the idea of creating a 'toe kick' like raised area - then just vent that on each side with a grill of some kind. Also helps remove any trapped moisture if you spill water and it gets under the stand. __________________ In transition... 120G redo.

01/09/2018, 06:27 PM	#12
PhishyRupert Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 52	I can’t see it cooking the tank, will only assist and help not kick on heaters as often.

01/09/2018, 09:40 PM	#13
Diana A Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: New Jersey Posts: 682	I have radiant heated floors. You don't have to worry about your sump temp rising because it won't effect it much. The only thing different is that your sump heater won't run at all. My tank temp is usually around 72 with room temp at 73 __________________ diana

01/10/2018, 06:49 AM	#14
der_wille_zur_macht Team RC Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 17,749	I don't think the concern is "cooking" the tank, rather you're not allowing the floor to radiate heat evenly. One portion of the floor will be exposed to free air, and will be able to give off heat. Another portion will be "trapped" under the stand, which may mean it can/can't radiate heat as effectively. The difference means the flooring materials will be thermally stressed differently, which can cause issues (cracked tiles, etc.). Whether or not it'll actually be a problem is anyone's guess, but that's why the product manufacturer specifies the free space above the floor. They don't know or care about your tank's temperature. I like the idea of raising the floor inside the stand and introducing a vent. Building a whole separate circuit for that portion of the floor seems far flung, and hard to explain down the road. __________________ Inconveniencing marine life since 1992 "It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)

01/10/2018, 09:14 AM	#16
Vinny Kreyling Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Miller Place, NY Posts: 7,206	My floors are heated with running water. __________________ 250 gallon mixed reef, 2 Reefbreeder's Photon V 2, Deepwater BLDC 12, DAS EX-3 Skimmer, MTC mini cal, 2-3/4" Sea Swirls, Aquacontroller & 6 Tunze pumps.

01/10/2018, 09:18 AM	#17
hijinks Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 505	The heat won't matter but if you're worried put something like this under the sump? https://www.homedepot.com/p/Reflecti...6025/100012574

01/10/2018, 10:47 AM	#18
Jonviviano Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 417	This thread is like. I have radiant floor heat with my 72 bow for 5 years or more. No issues. Nor will i ever see any. A tank on top will not make a difference. Just like your curio cabinet, couches, cabinets, tv console do not make a difference. It will preform fine and you will never know the difference!

01/10/2018, 12:52 PM	#19
HBtank Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 2,957	I assume that radiant floors can have typical furniture arrangements on them.... and not only furniture with 6" legs; we all agree this will not "cook" a tank that is not already having cooling issues. So what exactly is the problem..... why is it not considered a piece of furniture? __________________ 80g Aiptasia dominated reef tank.. with fish and now a bunch of berghia! Current Tank Info: 80g tank, re-starting a reef after a zoanthid nudibranch plauge, followed by months of steady and unstoppable STN/RTN, crashed; stayed FOWLR for a couple years, currently an aiptasia dominated reef tank with fishies and BERGHIA

01/16/2018, 05:04 PM	#20
ewauk Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Crawfordsville, Indiana Posts: 9	I have electric "in floor" heating in multiple rooms of my home. I understand, and know first hand, how it heats. I also know the heat will build in areas that aren't able to vent. I do not have issues with the temperature of my tank. I had hoped that someone that had similar circumstance would be willing to share how they personally dealt with it, or if it didn't become an issue. The purpose would be to avoid issues with the tank temperature as a forethought instead of a reaction to something that wasn't contemplated. "Cook" may have been too strong a term for some. I wasn't being literal. I am not familiar with water being the source of the heat but I would think that the water would be a set temperature flowing at say...76 degrees. That wouldn't fluctuate. 76 is 76. If the floor had held the heat, the water that would flow would actually not allow the temp to climb it would act similar to a chiller. I would love that option. Electric on the other hand, has a temp sensor placed in a specific spot in the mortar(in my case) and it will heat until the sensor is satisfied. If the sensor is allowed to vent, it will cool and ask for more... watts are really, really hot. A new stand has been built. Thanks to everyone for their viewpoints and suggestions.

01/25/2018, 07:40 PM	#22
Desert Sea Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 294	I wouldn’t worry too much about the heat under the tank. It won’t be any hotter than the rest of the space. Also if your installing in a bed of mortar, the mortar will act as a heat sink and the small area under the tank will get warm even if you don’t install the heating cable there.

01/26/2018, 09:37 PM	#23
Scoted Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: South Jersey Posts: 126	As long as there is air movement between the tank and the floor you are fine! If you had a 4x2 section sitting on the floor directly the wiring in the floor could overheat causing a problem. However the build up of heat under your tank will be only in cold weather when you have the system on which will be raising the temperature at a less than problematic level (free heat). The electric heated floors take the chill out but they do not produce the heat of a boiler fed heated floor.