Lets See SPS LED Tanks!

[neoyhng]

20 years ago: "MH produces so much UV that will burn your coral"

Now: "LED produces no UV and your coral losing colour"

If very bodies wait for "long term" result, there will be no advance in technology. The MH (and T5HO also) we used today is not the same thing as we used when it introduced.
Only with pioneers that our skills can be improved

Keeping a fish 3 months is long term, using LED for 3 months is short term....we all try to justify our own believe.

[finksmart]

Based on what I read UV has nothing to do with coral coloration:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/9/aafeature

"coloration was wrongly attributed to natural sunscreens that absorb and mitigate the effects of damaging UV radiation. By extension, the idea was formed within the hobby that ultraviolet energy is necessary for colorful corals (we know now that these sunscreens – MAAs for mycosporine-like amino acids – are colorless and do not lend color."

http://www.athiel.com/lib4/par1.htm

"Based on the studies done here, it does not appear that coral coloration is related to UV radiation. Thus, if you are using metal halide bulbs, and you're not shielding them in hopes that your corals will color up, you may actually be harming the corals with UV radiation."

Seems to make sense since everyone using MH uses glass shield to filter out UV. In this sense the absence of UV in LED should have nothing to do with coloration. I think the very nature of change from MH to LED may attribute to coral stress if not properly acclimated to the new lighting, which causes browning.

[nlandgraf]

Had never knew about the SPS brown out issue with LEDs. Hopefully the technology improves so that this won't be an issue in the future, because I like the energy saving feature they promote for the lights.

[boodlefish]

Originally Posted by neoyhng

20 years ago: "MH produces so much UV that will burn your coral"

Now: "LED produces no UV and your coral losing colour"

If very bodies wait for "long term" result, there will be no advance in technology. The MH (and T5HO also) we used today is not the same thing as we used when it introduced.
Only with pioneers that our skills can be improved

Keeping a fish 3 months is long term, using LED for 3 months is short term....we all try to justify our own believe.

i also applaud the pioneers in this field for me the most important part is color... which has to do with a lot more then light some param readings on these tanks would be nice, any ultra low nutrient systems out there running LED's and adding AA's to help keep the colors up???

i understand that LED's have proven to grow corals fast... so has 10K MH but the result is not the best colors IMHO. i would take slow growth and bright deep beautiful colors because i dont really like to frag and am patient...

oh 3 months is long term for fish??? i have had all of my fish for well over 10 months some for up to 2 years... am i missing something?

[neoyhng]

Originally Posted by boodlefish

i also applaud the pioneers in this field for me the most important part is color... which has to do with a lot more then light some param readings on these tanks would be nice, any ultra low nutrient systems out there running LED's and adding AA's to help keep the colors up???

i understand that LED's have proven to grow corals fast... so has 10K MH but the result is not the best colors IMHO. i would take slow growth and bright deep beautiful colors because i dont really like to frag and am patient...

oh 3 months is long term for fish??? i have had all of my fish for well over 10 months some for up to 2 years... am i missing something?

I am running an ULNS (Z.....), and colour is already fine before the switch to LED. I didn't notice any deterioration in colour...almost 5 months now.

For colour, it would appear different to different people, so you have to try it yourself to see if a particular lighting fit you. The good thing to LED is that you can change a few "bulbs" to different colour (say a few blues to reds or purples) to match what you like. This can never be achieved by MH unless you change the whole bulb.

Well, this is just for argument. For example, 2 years for a fish can be short term for me. All except 2 of my fishes are over 5 years...the hippo already heading for 13....and I have the carpet anemone for almost 8 years...keep my fingers crossed.

[wfournier]

Can anyone show me pics illustrating the brownout that occurred? I keep reading that no one has seen an LED tank with good color, but I have not seen anything illustrating that they don't work. I have been running LEDs on a 20g cube for a few months now and threw a few SPS in a few months back (it's mostly a softy tank). They are not anything overly crazy as far as SPS, a birdsnest and green digi but over the past month and a half they have grown and the color has improved. I'd say the color on these two is as good as anything I have seen for these corals.

[huskysglare1]

Anymore pics anyone?

[boodlefish]

Originally Posted by neoyhng

I am running an ULNS (Z.....), and colour is already fine before the switch to LED. I didn't notice any deterioration in colour...almost 5 months now.

For colour, it would appear different to different people, so you have to try it yourself to see if a particular lighting fit you. The good thing to LED is that you can change a few "bulbs" to different colour (say a few blues to reds or purples) to match what you like. This can never be achieved by MH unless you change the whole bulb.

Well, this is just for argument. For example, 2 years for a fish can be short term for me. All except 2 of my fishes are over 5 years...the hippo already heading for 13....and I have the carpet anemone for almost 8 years...keep my fingers crossed.

im sorry i must have been confused by your previous post, it seemed to me you were suggesting "3 months long term for fish" thats all, and i thought that was a little odd. i understand if you were being sarcastic its just hard to read intonation and sarcasm and i didnt want to read it the wrong way, thanks for clarifying.

as a visual learner i would love to see some pics of your ULNS-LED set up.

as for the ability to change color with MH you are 100% correct but i use T5's and have a plethora of color combos to chose from. and i have heard of individuals supplementing MH with LED to get the colors (deep blues and violets) that their current bulb lacks.

[neoyhng]

Originally Posted by boodlefish

im sorry i must have been confused by your previous post, it seemed to me you were suggesting "3 months long term for fish" thats all, and i thought that was a little odd. i understand if you were being sarcastic its just hard to read intonation and sarcasm and i didnt want to read it the wrong way, thanks for clarifying.

as a visual learner i would love to see some pics of your ULNS-LED set up.

as for the ability to change color with MH you are 100% correct but i use T5's and have a plethora of color combos to chose from. and i have heard of individuals supplementing MH with LED to get the colors (deep blues and violets) that their current bulb lacks.

never mind. But there really exist some people keeping aquarium like having flowers as decor......they are the favorites of LFS.

I am a lousy photographer.....may try to see if I can take some "OK" pictures this weekend and post here.

[finksmart]

Search is your friend.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...1783517&page=3

Originally Posted by huskysglare1

Anymore pics anyone?

[boodlefish]

Originally Posted by neoyhng

never mind. But there really exist some people keeping aquarium like having flowers as decor......they are the favorites of LFS.

I am a lousy photographer.....may try to see if I can take some "OK" pictures this weekend and post here.

ok i know what you are talking about. that make me mad too... its the people who dont take the time and energy to build a sustainable system but rather buy what looks nice and when it dies from their neglect they go back the the LFS who tells them "3 months" is how long that fish lives... IMHO there is no place in this hobby for that type of hobbyist.

i still would like to see pics of your ULNS.

[reefsafe]

I love my AI leds and my sps do too (sorry about bad pic quality)

[Haksar]

Decent growth..

[takayan]

Some LED like Ledio9UV has UV on it. According to some Japanese website, UV is for coral which lives in shallow water.

[finksmart]

Originally Posted by takayan

Some LED like Ledio9UV has UV on it. According to some Japanese website, UV is for coral which lives in shallow water.

Can you provide more background or sources into this?

[takayan]

can you read Japanese? It is all Japanese.
http://www.1023world.net/blog/%E6%96...99%BA%E8%89%B2

[takayan]

can you read Japanese? It is all Japanese.
http://www.1023world.net/blog/%E6%96...99%BA%E8%89%B2

[stancfii]

I have to agree that there is a distinct difference between a photo and real life coloration when it comes to LED lights. A friend of mine set up an SPS tank with LEDs, and the coloration and growth is amazing. Problem is, the colors don't show well in pictures. He did say that there was some bleaching and browning until about the three to four month period while the SPS frags were getting adjusted to all the intensity of the LEDs (they were previously under T5 lighting). I'm thinking of changing my 58g from MH/VHO combo to LEDs after seeing his tank. His advice is to take a slow acclimation via dimmer control to prevent browning. The people here who complain about browning of SPS under LED tend to be the ones that use more LED bulbs than needed, run them at max Vf (overdriving them) from day 1, AND use optics. All while putting the fixture 6 inches above the surface of the water (or less) on an 18" tank. This combination is enough to fry SPS frags in your sump (if you are running bb ).

[huskysglare1]

Reefsafe,
nice growth, but it looks like the colors are there anymore. They seem to brown out. Is this the case in real life?

[NaClCrocodile]

I'm beginning to wonder whether stancfii's point is what's the problem. I think that most people switching to LED do not check what their MH is putting out with a PAR meter and just assume that the LEDs aren't going to put out as much. I'd really like to see a well established ULNS tank measure PAR of their halides and then switch to a dimmable LED system and match PAR. I bet this has a good deal to do with the bleaching.

[Giga]

here ya go-and i'm to lazy to make it proper english but you'll get hte idea


undertank pic

Chatta ♪ hand and a hole in the ceiling
アンカ打ったから、尚更でかい穴が・・・苦笑
Anchor from the hit, even more so bitterly big hole

なんか暗く写ってますが、どうしても眩しすぎてこんな露出になっちゃいます。青が強いと仕方ないかな。ボルクス丸秘LED照明は、白と青が半々なんですよ

I have reflected something dark, and this exposure is too bright and not be a means. A strong blue oh well. Volks Round LED illumination secret, I'm half and half white and blue.

で、やっぱUVをガンガン試験したいので、贅沢にDeep UV3とPearl UV3を左右に配置してみました。 , このまま進めるかまだ未定だけど、ちょっとシミュレーションのつもりで。でも、なかなか良い感じ♪

And blasting As expected UV test because we want to luxury and Pearl UV3 Deep UV3 I placed left and right. But do not yet move forward, little by way of simulation. However, ♪ feeling pretty good

あと、ついでにエダコモンサンゴをモデルに、新LeDio 9シリーズでの発色テストも。メインの丸秘LED照明を消して、上の図の通り、左側の灯具のみを用いて、各LeDio 9をひとつずつ順番に入れ替えて撮影してみました

Later, the model Edakomonsango Incidentally, the new 9 Series LeDio chromogenic tests. The main secret round LED lights turn off, as shown above, using only the left light fittings, replace each shot LeDio I turn 09, one by one.


under the first coral comparison set of pic

Mystery Purple · · · Oh no kore. 。 . 。 . 苦笑 Bitter smile

目視ではもっとガツンとメタグリーンなんですが、これが我がデジカメの限界のようです。 うーん伝えられないのが残念 こうして見るとDeep系よりもAqua系の方がメリハリはよく写ってますね でも本当は左列のブルー系の方が綺麗に発色しています。蛍光は450～460nmあたりのブルー光が最適みたい

I have a green visual meta kick *** more like it in my digital camera's limitations. Hmm. Too bad it was absent. Deep Aqua seen in this system than the system I'm sharp way reflect well. Has those beautiful blue color in the left column really well. Green fluorescence was also Edakomon 450 ~ 460nm blue light like the best around.

また、ブルー系のスギノキの色揚げには、UVブレンドでシアン蛍光を刺激すると良いでしょう。さらに光合成自体には580nm後半のオレンジ光が利用されるようなので、Pearl UV3が一石二鳥かも♪ 誰か試してみて（汗）以下、参考までにブルー系スギノキのシアン蛍光の例。白、青には反応しないが、UVにてきめんに反応する。メタハラがスギノキの色揚げに有効なのは、適度にUVを含むからでしょう。光がただ白 ければ良いというものではなさそうだ。

In addition, the system Suginoki fried blue color, UV cyan good blend to stimulate fluorescence. Photosynthesis itself even as it is used 580nm light orange in the second half, Pearl UV3 ♪ someone might try is killing two birds with one stone (sorry!)
The following examples of cyan fluorescent blue Suginoki for reference. White, and blue does not react, UV to react to immediate effect. The color of fried Suginoki a valid meta-Hara, a moderate from the UV will contain. The light is always better 白Kere's just so bright.


under last picture

懐かしいなぁ。。 . 。 . その後、NZ灯具が発売された時も、そのブルー光を3,000lx/30cm程度まで引き上げて楽しめるようになりました。そして、この時の感動が、 スポットミニの製作にも繋がりました。当時のNZ灯具はやたらでかかったので（苦笑）それが今やこんな小さなLEDランプで得られるようになった訳です。 それも半分以下の消費電力で、しかも照度はン～倍以上♪ これが時代の移ろいですか 。 . 。 . いや～ん 年くっちゃったなぁ

By the way, but more than 10 years ago, the system first Kowa BB450 (straight tube 20W) even when tried, did I was impressed by the beautiful day-glo color like this. Naa old. Then, NZ lighting equipment even when they are released, the blue light now enjoy raising 3,000 lx/30cm far. And during this excitement, mini spot but over production. Since then Dekakatta NZ lamp fitting random (laughs)


Now it is such a small LED lamp obtained by translation now.
It is also less than half the power consumption, yet the icon ~ ♪ illumination times
Is this change of era. Well there is. Chatta Naa Kutsu year. 。 . 。 .

以上、たまには簡潔に（曝） Least briefly once in a while (exposing)
参考になれば♪ ♪ helpful if

その他、応援市場実況中継。 Other live coverage of market support.
ただいま、Deep UV3がダントツ人気のようです♪ Now, Deep UV3 ♪ seems by far the most popular
Pearl UV3もお勧めですよ～。 It's also a good idea - Pearl UV3. スギノキに夏の日差しを～♪ Suginoki summer sun ~ ♪
記念品もほぼ無くなりました。 Almost disappeared souvenir. 。 . 。 . 少なくてすまそ。 Sumaso less. 。 . 。 .

[neoyhng]

Originally Posted by boodlefish

........

i still would like to see pics of your ULNS.

Some new pics:

FTS


some close up







Top-down, these better shown the "real" colour

[neoyhng]

Equipments

[teckt]

So much for the color argument! lol Great looking tank and corals neo. I cant wait to set up my new system with the new acan lighting dimmable a104 comming out next month. Your tank is inspirational!

Thanks
Brian

[neoyhng]

Originally Posted by teckt

So much for the color argument! lol Great looking tank and corals neo. I cant wait to set up my new system with the new acan lighting dimmable a104 comming out next month. Your tank is inspirational!

Thanks
Brian

Thanks for the compliment. Given that MH and T5HO are both mature technology, there are bound to be (and should be) more successful cases than LED. Right now, the cost of LED is still not very affordable, and most of the early adopters are still at try and error. I just hope that this technology would proved to be a reliable one in near future.

What LED satisfy me most right now is temperature management. It definitely put out a lot less heat than MH, both into the tank and outside the tank. I was replacing 3x400W MH + 8x39W T5HO with 8x160W LED (1500W vs 13000W) so and the effect is significant. I don't need to read the thermometer and can feel it once inside my fish room.

While not all are comfortable with this technology, I hope that everyone keep an open mind and put up evidence on the goods and bads of LED....The market would then decides it fate.