still battling hair algae

Daddyrawg · 10/08/2018, 10:13 AM

90 gallon with 4 fish and 2 zoa frags...

tanks fairly new i think its been 5 months now...I'm still battling GHA..

used FLukanozole and it worked but its now creeping back. I run gfo, although may be exhausted by now..phosphates at around 0.1.. 10% weekly water changes and I don't overfeed. recently bought some snails and lawnmower blenny but I want to fight the source but cant figure it out...don't want to get more corals until gha situation is handled..

Is this just expected and now is a waiting game until its eradicated by my practices and current setup.. yes I have a Protein skimmer.

Have some NOPOx , may give that a shot.

Have new viparpsectra lights runing from 5pm to 930 pm only 4.5 hours a day for now. whites on from 6-830 blues entire time both only at 10% atm.

Thx all

mcgyvr · 10/08/2018, 12:05 PM

You bought rock that was leaching phosphates then as a tank shouldn't have .1ppm phosphate levels unless you brought it in on the rock or are overfeeding..

Continue with GFO and water changes to lower phosphate amounts and give it time..
5 months still new..

I always say plan on issues for the first 8-12 months of a tank as it takes time for it to mature..
What are your nitrate levels?

Daddyrawg · 10/08/2018, 12:34 PM

aaa

Daddyrawg · 10/08/2018, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

You bought rock that was leaching phosphates then as a tank shouldn't have .1ppm phosphate levels unless you brought it in on the rock or are overfeeding..

Continue with GFO and water changes to lower phosphate amounts and give it time..
5 months still new..

I always say plan on issues for the first 8-12 months of a tank as it takes time for it to mature..
What are your nitrate levels?

ok I will continue to fight the fight... I think I brought in the phopphates on the rock like you said. Nitrates 10-15

tyleraoc · 10/08/2018, 04:20 PM

I used fluconazole and it worked, but like you it did come back. I did fluconazole one more time and that got rid of it for good. YOu could try a second dose.

Daddyrawg · 10/08/2018, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyleraoc

I used fluconazole and it worked, but like you it did come back. I did fluconazole one more time and that got rid of it for good. YOu could try a second dose.

I thought of that also..I think I'll be more patient tho.. water changes
and maybe nopox

vrba · 10/08/2018, 07:31 PM

The fluconazole will probably knock it back again, but if you continue to have high phosphate, my experience is that you will continue to have algae issues. I would focus on the GFO, change it often as phos levels rise.

btmedic04 · 10/08/2018, 08:44 PM

did you manually remove as much of the gha as possible before/after treating the tank with flukanozole?

Daddyrawg · 10/08/2018, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btmedic04

did you manually remove as much of the gha as possible before/after treating the tank with flukanozole?

no i had long strands and didnt manual remove which i should have in hindsight

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btmedic04 · 10/08/2018, 09:53 PM

It's all good bud. That gha that died after the fluconazole treatment is breaking down and releasing its phosphates and nitrates back into the water causing new gha to return. Manually remove as much of it as you can and consider doing some water changes too

Daddyrawg · 10/08/2018, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btmedic04

It's all good bud. That gha that died after the fluconazole treatment is breaking down and releasing its phosphates and nitrates back into the water causing new gha to return. Manually remove as much of it as you can and consider doing some water changes too

does scrubbing algae down with a toothbrush count as manual removal?

btmedic04 · 10/09/2018, 05:07 AM

I'd say as long as the algae comes out of the tank before it has a chance to decompose, then yes.

mcgyvr · 10/09/2018, 10:27 AM

Your nutrient levels were elevated before Fluc treatment..
They still are after...
As such conditions for algae growth are still favorable..

I have used fluc before and did not do any manual removal prior to usage..
I did however fix my nutrient issues before/during treatment so the problem hasn't returned..

While manual removal can be beneficial if you have a major issue the amount in your tank doesn't really justify needing to resort to that..

Daddyrawg · 10/09/2018, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

Your nutrient levels were elevated before Fluc treatment..
They still are after...
As such conditions for algae growth are still favorable..

I have used fluc before and did not do any manual removal prior to usage..
I did however fix my nutrient issues before/during treatment so the problem hasn't returned..

While manual removal can be beneficial if you have a major issue the amount in your tank doesn't really justify needing to resort to that..

i just wish I knew what the issue was

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mcgyvr · 10/09/2018, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daddyrawg

i just wish I knew what the issue was

The issue is simple..
For algae/life to grow you must have the following
1-Light (check)
2-Nutrients (check)
.1ppm of phosphate and 10-15ppm of nitrate is more than sufficient to fuel algae..
I always come back to a lawn/grass analogy..
Fluconazole is just like a one time lawn weed killer application.. Your lawn either requires yearly applications to keep the weeds (algae) down OR you need thick/lush grass that will out compete for the available nutrients and not allow weeds to be a problem.. Thick/lush grass comes with time/patience..

You didn't address the reason the algae was there in the first place as you (like many typical newbies) want that quick/easy button and though fluconazole was it.. Its not..... And the algae came back..

Typically nuisance algae is present when "elevated" nutrient levels are present..
Its all about a competition for nutrients.. When competition is low like what occurs with a new tank and nutrient levels are higher then algae thrives..
Denitrifying bacterial counts are typically also still lower with a new tank and as such nutrient levels are more of an issue/harder to maintain..
Start getting a bunch of corals in there and sufficient bacterial colonies and now there is competition..

Patience...
Carbon dosing will also be very beneficial for you..

I always use it in the first year of a tank while its "maturing" to maintain/achieve low nutrient levels.. After about the 8-12 month mark I typically don't need to use it anymore as sufficient bacterial colonies are in place.

Daddyrawg · 10/09/2018, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

The issue is simple..
For algae/life to grow you must have the following
1-Light (check)
2-Nutrients (check)
.1ppm of phosphate and 10-15ppm of nitrate is more than sufficient to fuel algae..
I always come back to a lawn/grass analogy..
Fluconazole is just like a one time lawn weed killer application.. Your lawn either requires yearly applications to keep the weeds (algae) down OR you need thick/lush grass that will out compete for the available nutrients and not allow weeds to be a problem.. Thick/lush grass comes with time/patience..

You didn't address the reason the algae was there in the first place as you (like many typical newbies) want that quick/easy button and though fluconazole was it.. Its not..... And the algae came back..

Typically nuisance algae is present when "elevated" nutrient levels are present..
Its all about a competition for nutrients.. When competition is low like what occurs with a new tank and nutrient levels are higher then algae thrives..
Denitrifying bacterial counts are typically also still lower with a new tank and as such nutrient levels are more of an issue/harder to maintain..
Start getting a bunch of corals in there and sufficient bacterial colonies and now there is competition..

Patience...
Carbon dosing will also be very beneficial for you..

I always use it in the first year of a tank while its "maturing" to maintain/achieve low nutrient levels.. After about the 8-12 month mark I typically don't need to use it anymore as sufficient bacterial colonies are in place.

thx mac..you da bomb

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Daddyrawg · 10/09/2018, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daddyrawg

thx mac..you da bomb

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ok i was thinking the opposite..fix my algae prob before adding corals

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Daddyrawg · 10/09/2018, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

The issue is simple..
For algae/life to grow you must have the following
1-Light (check)
2-Nutrients (check)
.1ppm of phosphate and 10-15ppm of nitrate is more than sufficient to fuel algae..
I always come back to a lawn/grass analogy..
Fluconazole is just like a one time lawn weed killer application.. Your lawn either requires yearly applications to keep the weeds (algae) down OR you need thick/lush grass that will out compete for the available nutrients and not allow weeds to be a problem.. Thick/lush grass comes with time/patience..

You didn't address the reason the algae was there in the first place as you (like many typical newbies) want that quick/easy button and though fluconazole was it.. Its not..... And the algae came back..

Typically nuisance algae is present when "elevated" nutrient levels are present..
Its all about a competition for nutrients.. When competition is low like what occurs with a new tank and nutrient levels are higher then algae thrives..
Denitrifying bacterial counts are typically also still lower with a new tank and as such nutrient levels are more of an issue/harder to maintain..
Start getting a bunch of corals in there and sufficient bacterial colonies and now there is competition..

Patience...
Carbon dosing will also be very beneficial for you..

I always use it in the first year of a tank while its "maturing" to maintain/achieve low nutrient levels.. After about the 8-12 month mark I typically don't need to use it anymore as sufficient bacterial colonies are in place.

ok i was thinking the opposite...fix algae then get corals

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mcgyvr · 10/10/2018, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daddyrawg

ok i was thinking the opposite...fix algae then get corals

I didn't intend to imply that you add a bunch of corals in a tank with an algae problem..
Only that once algae/nutrient issues are in check that having corals provides competition for nutrients to help prevent further algae issues..

Its far easier to fix issues when you don't have a bunch of corals in the tank..
Corals like stability.. Fixing issues sometimes causes instability..

Daddyrawg · 10/10/2018, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

I didn't intend to imply that you add a bunch of corals in a tank with an algae problem..
Only that once algae/nutrient issues are in check that having corals provides competition for nutrients to help prevent further algae issues..

Its far easier to fix issues when you don't have a bunch of corals in the tank..
Corals like stability.. Fixing issues sometimes causes instability..

ok makes sense

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Daddyrawg · 10/24/2018, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

You bought rock that was leaching phosphates then as a tank shouldn't have .1ppm phosphate levels unless you brought it in on the rock or are overfeeding..

Continue with GFO and water changes to lower phosphate amounts and give it time..
5 months still new..

I always say plan on issues for the first 8-12 months of a tank as it takes time for it to mature..
What are your nitrate levels?

Hey MAC, So I received my Hana CHecker ULR.. and my first readings came out as 200.. which = .6132 phosphates.. I'm the guy still battling the GHA.. I manual removed some couple days ago with a 3 day blackout...getting my GFO delivered tomorrow.. I do believe my rocks are leaching.. will just keep fighting.. wonder if it;s high atm cuz I brushed gha couple days ago. I'm gonna test tonight to see if it dropped. My methods to lowering phates are 10% weekly water changes, GFO tomorrow, and NOPOX ( but only 4ml a day) should I up this dosage?

Uncle99 · 10/24/2018, 07:23 PM

.6132 is six times higher than bad, should be 0.02-0.05.
If this was true.....You have a big time phosphate problem, GFO would last only minutes before exhaust. Perhaps the test us not accurate.
NoPox does little for phosphates, NoPox is to increase bacteria counts which consume nitrates and are skimmed out.
Phosphates need to "bind" to something like LC or GFO.
Black outs, brushing, pulling, scrubbing, all ok....water changes....great.....just keep up the good work

When I review the pic, I see a small time algae problem, normal for your tank age, which can be pulled/brushed easily. Sure, NoPox if your nitrates are increasing beyond say 15 ppm.

Daddyrawg · 10/24/2018, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle99

.6132 is six times higher than bad, should be 0.02-0.05.
If this was true.....You have a big time phosphate problem, GFO would last only minutes before exhaust. Perhaps the test us not accurate.
NoPox does little for phosphates, NoPox is to increase bacteria counts which consume nitrates and are skimmed out.
Phosphates need to "bind" to something like LC or GFO.
Black outs, brushing, pulling, scrubbing, all ok....water changes....great.....just keep up the good work

When I review the pic, I see a small time algae problem, normal for your tank age, which can be pulled/brushed easily. Sure, NoPox if your nitrates are increasing beyond say 15 ppm.

Thx unc... yeah that was user error on my part.. i retested twice and now my phates are showing 0 on the uLR hana checker... I have been manually removing and im starting to notice the growth back is slowing down.. I think the fight is working

Uncle99 · 10/25/2018, 06:18 AM

That’s better, I think your doing all the right things, as Mcgyvr always states about the ugly stages, I never trust zeroes, margin of error likely around .04.

From a nutrient perspective, manage nitrate between 2-5 ppm and phosphate around .02-.04 ish, keep up your WC weekly, this time will pass.

It’s ok to have a bit of algae, sign of healthy tank.

Good luck, your almost there.....

Daddyrawg · 10/25/2018, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle99

That’s better, I think your doing all the right things, as Mcgyvr always states about the ugly stages, I never trust zeroes, margin of error likely around .04.

From a nutrient perspective, manage nitrate between 2-5 ppm and phosphate around .02-.04 ish, keep up your WC weekly, this time will pass.

It’s ok to have a bit of algae, sign of healthy tank.

Good luck, your almost there.....

awesome... actually I don't think phosphates are zero, had a defective hana checker.. waiting for new one to arrive

10/08/2018, 12:05 PM	#2
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	You bought rock that was leaching phosphates then as a tank shouldn't have .1ppm phosphate levels unless you brought it in on the rock or are overfeeding.. Continue with GFO and water changes to lower phosphate amounts and give it time.. 5 months still new.. I always say plan on issues for the first 8-12 months of a tank as it takes time for it to mature.. What are your nitrate levels? __________________ Who me?

10/08/2018, 08:44 PM	#8
btmedic04 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 256	did you manually remove as much of the gha as possible before/after treating the tank with flukanozole? __________________ Current Tanks: New build in progress :)

10/08/2018, 09:53 PM	#10
btmedic04 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 256	It's all good bud. That gha that died after the fluconazole treatment is breaking down and releasing its phosphates and nitrates back into the water causing new gha to return. Manually remove as much of it as you can and consider doing some water changes too __________________ Current Tanks: New build in progress :)

10/09/2018, 05:07 AM	#12
btmedic04 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 256	I'd say as long as the algae comes out of the tank before it has a chance to decompose, then yes. __________________ Current Tanks: New build in progress :)

10/09/2018, 10:27 AM	#13
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Your nutrient levels were elevated before Fluc treatment.. They still are after... As such conditions for algae growth are still favorable.. I have used fluc before and did not do any manual removal prior to usage.. I did however fix my nutrient issues before/during treatment so the problem hasn't returned.. While manual removal can be beneficial if you have a major issue the amount in your tank doesn't really justify needing to resort to that.. __________________ Who me?

10/08/2018, 12:34 PM	#3
Daddyrawg Registered Member Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 814	aaa

10/08/2018, 04:20 PM	#5
tyleraoc Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: Redwood City Posts: 45	I used fluconazole and it worked, but like you it did come back. I did fluconazole one more time and that got rid of it for good. YOu could try a second dose.

10/08/2018, 07:31 PM	#7
vrba Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 5	The fluconazole will probably knock it back again, but if you continue to have high phosphate, my experience is that you will continue to have algae issues. I would focus on the GFO, change it often as phos levels rise.

10/24/2018, 07:23 PM	#22
Uncle99 Crab Free Zone Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,906	.6132 is six times higher than bad, should be 0.02-0.05. If this was true.....You have a big time phosphate problem, GFO would last only minutes before exhaust. Perhaps the test us not accurate. NoPox does little for phosphates, NoPox is to increase bacteria counts which consume nitrates and are skimmed out. Phosphates need to "bind" to something like LC or GFO. Black outs, brushing, pulling, scrubbing, all ok....water changes....great.....just keep up the good work When I review the pic, I see a small time algae problem, normal for your tank age, which can be pulled/brushed easily. Sure, NoPox if your nitrates are increasing beyond say 15 ppm. Last edited by Uncle99; 10/24/2018 at 07:33 PM.

10/25/2018, 06:18 AM	#24
Uncle99 Crab Free Zone Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,906	That’s better, I think your doing all the right things, as Mcgyvr always states about the ugly stages, I never trust zeroes, margin of error likely around .04. From a nutrient perspective, manage nitrate between 2-5 ppm and phosphate around .02-.04 ish, keep up your WC weekly, this time will pass. It’s ok to have a bit of algae, sign of healthy tank. Good luck, your almost there.....