Reef Central Online Community

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > Special Interest Group (SIG) Forums > Large Reef Tanks
Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 05/11/2013, 04:53 AM   #101
tbettis
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Alabama
Posts: 281
Tagging


__________________
180 My Reef Creations Hybrid Stapphire. MRC 36 bio sump and Reactors. Neptune Apex. Prized Crosshatch and Black Tang. 4 AI Vega LED

Current Tank Info: 180 new build. My Reef Creations
tbettis is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/11/2013, 04:56 AM   #102
pmrogers
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 481
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timfish View Post
Just doing a little more armchair engineering here but another option you have since the side wall is FRP is to drill and tap it. . .
Timfish, that is an excellent idea! I think I'll give it a try. Though I wonder how much F is in the FRP. Fiberglass isn't usually tap-able, is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Epicreefer View Post
30" is quite a bit so you should get even distribution, with very little shadowing at the top of the tank between lights. It's not necessarily a shadow but while they spread light 45 degrees left and right, a ~90degree optic, 90% is within 30 degrees of vertical and so bright you knowtice the less lit area. . .
Thanks again, Epicreefer. This is very helpful. I really don't want any banding or spotlighting, so I think I'll go ahead with 11 now. Pictures of the 6k system would be wonderful; thank you so much for offering.


dotcommer, Eauturquoise, Haksar, thanks for joining!


__________________
Paul

Current Tank Info: 1700gal 164"x48"x56" starphire and FRP tank
pmrogers is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/11/2013, 09:50 AM   #103
rynoe
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Surrey BC
Posts: 94
Are those brass fittings in the ro/di system.


rynoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/11/2013, 12:29 PM   #104
etannert
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 21
Timfish is a useful guy to have around. One of the many benefits to being on ARC! (Shameless plug)

I love seeing the forethought that goes into these massive builds. Very inspiring!


etannert is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/11/2013, 06:54 PM   #105
owenspackman
Registered Member
 
owenspackman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 835
wow, absolutely beautiful home and the start of a truly exceptional build. I will be tagging along! Good luck!


owenspackman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/11/2013, 07:14 PM   #106
Timfish
Registered Member
 
Timfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,985
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmrogers View Post
. . . Fiberglass isn't usually tap-able, is it?
I haven't worked with fiberglass so this is speculation, although on based on my experience with acrylic, PVC and ABS, but my guess is if panels or pieces are thick enough, = or > 1/4", and the bits are kept cool it is. Also fiberglass fibers are added to a lot of other stuff beside fiberglass resin to give added strength so my perception is FRP is more like PVC or ABS than the more brittle fiberglass panels. I would certainly recommend practicing on some scrap first but if you tap it by hand a hand sprayer should keep it cool enough and if you go slow using a drill a hand sprayer should still be serviceable but whoever is operating the hand sprayer will probably get cramped hands. It's also very important to keep the tap clean as they gum up when used with composites or plastics. On a half inch piece of acrylic I will stop and clean of the tap several times.

And thank you Etannert.


Timfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/12/2013, 10:20 AM   #107
benjc
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
Posts: 636
Looks like an amazing build and looking forward to watching it progress. Sorry to hear about the fish loss; losing fish you had that long must have been difficult.


benjc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/12/2013, 05:05 PM   #108
Bilk
Registered Member
 
Bilk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,374
Tagging along and looking forward to learning from this amazing home reef adventure


Bilk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/12/2013, 08:14 PM   #109
pmrogers
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 481
Quote:
Originally Posted by owenspackman View Post
wow, absolutely beautiful home and the start of a truly exceptional build. I will be tagging along! Good luck!
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjc View Post
Looks like an amazing build and looking forward to watching it progress. Sorry to hear about the fish loss; losing fish you had that long must have been difficult.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilk View Post
Tagging along and looking forward to learning from this amazing home reef adventure
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbettis View Post
Tagging
Thanks for joining the thread, owenspackman, benjc, bilk, tbettis. Yeah, losing the fish was hard; I still get a twinge occasionally when I think about the old tank.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rynoe View Post
Are those brass fittings in the ro/di system.
I believe they are. I'm assuming they are okay since they are before the membrane and DI, and also because the lead tech I worked with at Spectrapure to select the system was aware that it is for a marine reef aquarium.


__________________
Paul

Current Tank Info: 1700gal 164"x48"x56" starphire and FRP tank
pmrogers is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/12/2013, 08:51 PM   #110
pmrogers
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 481
Weekend progress - rock murder

The rock in my 750 was beautiful with a rich variety of sponges in yellow, green, orange, mustard, red, and gray, along with featherdusters, tunicates, and so on, but it had small amounts of valonia, hydroids, and planeria. While the flatworms haven't been bad since 2008 and the valonia and hydroids never grew to problem proportions, I don't want to take any chances with the new tank.

So this weekend I started the process of reincarnating 1200 pounds of rock.

Before pulling the rock
Rock, 15 rose BTAs and a mess of cabbage, tree, and toadstool softies. Not looking too bad for 6 months with zero maintenance other than top-off and the occasional alk supplementation.



First batch pulled out for bleaching
Ouch, this is harder to do than I thought it would be. Not the labor but the act of killing the rock. Scads of pods scurrying around looking to get back to the water, and hundreds of the little highlighter-yellow sponges (or maybe tunicates) that I find especially neat. Even the valonia look kind of cool in small quantities.



30 hours later, bleaching done
I feel both a sense of accomplishment, and slightly sick to my stomach over killing such beautiful rock. Acid bath, 2 weeks drying, and lanthanum chloride soaks still to go.


I didn't pull any of the rocks with the anemones or larger softies. Need to sort out homes for these guys so I can proceed with removing the 750 and building out the fish room quarantine systems.


__________________
Paul

Current Tank Info: 1700gal 164"x48"x56" starphire and FRP tank
pmrogers is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/12/2013, 09:14 PM   #111
Bilk
Registered Member
 
Bilk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,374
I do have a question. I found it difficult to work on my old 30" deep tank. How does one go about mounting corals, moving things, making changes and such in a tank and deep, tall and vast as this? Will you be swimming with the fishes?


Bilk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/13/2013, 11:05 AM   #112
Nwehrman
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2
Have to follow along! Being local and all!


Nwehrman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/13/2013, 12:22 PM   #113
worm5406
Not afriad to admit wrong
 
worm5406's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: South of WashDC in Maryland
Posts: 7,774
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmrogers View Post
I feel both a sense of accomplishment, and slightly sick to my stomach over killing such beautiful rock. Acid bath, 2 weeks drying, and lanthanum chloride soaks still to go.
But now you will know exactly what is on it and what is not.


__________________
Stock:LPS/SPS|1 hippo|4 OC Clown|4 Pepp shrimp|2 Brittle Star|3000+ Copepods|10+ MiniBrittle|8+ Bristle Worm|2 Anemone|100+ mini-feather|4 boys 14,21,22,22

Current Tank Info: Tank:300g Mixed Reef 300+lb LR|4" LS|5x MP40W|75g fuge|5x RadionPRO|RO DB250 skimmer|Apex
worm5406 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/13/2013, 01:19 PM   #114
sfsuphysics
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 9,103
Quote:
Originally Posted by worm5406 View Post
But now you will know exactly what is on it and what is not.
Exactly! I have hydroid colonies that are running rampant in my tank on rocks and was trying to find ways to kill them and only them but seems like death by bleach might be the best bet.

Not sure why the acid bath is needed though. Just in case anything survived? Or to break down whatever carbonate based life/structures might still be left.


__________________
Mike
sfsuphysics is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/13/2013, 01:22 PM   #115
rpjaws74
Registered Member
 
rpjaws74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: El Paso, Texas
Posts: 1,340
speechless with this build!!!seems to me set ups jusk keep getting bigger every year...awesome!


__________________
rpjaws

Current Tank Info: 500 glln system/ Reef
rpjaws74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/13/2013, 05:57 PM   #116
offroadodge
Registered Member
 
offroadodge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Cedar Park, Texas
Posts: 168
tagging along here from right down the road in Cedar Park. I realy like my 200G until I saw that u can fit 8+ of my tank inside your new one. I will tag along on both sights to see the progress. View looks awesome atop the hill.


__________________
Custom 200G-Digital Aquatics Controller-40G sump-Skimz SM201 Skimmer-PM Cal Reactor-Sunlight supply 1.5hp Chiller-2x400wMH-8xT5(54w)-2x36"VHO-LED MoonLT

Current Tank Info: custom 200G
offroadodge is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/13/2013, 06:35 PM   #117
wtwest
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3
Tagging along here. What better place for my first post!


wtwest is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/13/2013, 07:17 PM   #118
hypnoj
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilk View Post
I do have a question. I found it difficult to work on my old 30" deep tank. How does one go about mounting corals, moving things, making changes and such in a tank and deep, tall and vast as this? Will you be swimming with the fishes?
Ya that... I was wondering too Just beautiful!


hypnoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/13/2013, 08:58 PM   #119
pmrogers
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 481
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilk View Post
I do have a question. I found it difficult to work on my old 30" deep tank. How does one go about mounting corals, moving things, making changes and such in a tank and deep, tall and vast as this? Will you be swimming with the fishes?
Good questions. Mounting corals in the lower reaches will be a pain, no doubt, and require bending in at the waist and immersing most of the upper body. Not looking forward to this part. Moving things and general maintenance I'm not too concerned about given the right tools.

I worried a lot about this exact issue when I did the 750, and had it made 32" tall rather than 36" because that was the deepest I could reach with my arms. But I realized at one point after the tank stabilized that it had been over a year since I'd needed to reach more than about 20" into the tank (as part of pulling out the Streams for cleaning).


Quote:
Originally Posted by worm5406 View Post
But now you will know exactly what is on it and what is not.
That is the plan and the hope! When I was deciding whether or not to kill the rock, my main argument against was that it would be wasted effort in the end: that even with 2 full months of quarantine for every coral, rock, snail, etc., I would still eventually end up with all of the common pests, and that only good husbandry is going to keep them in check. But the main counterpoint and what ultimately made me comfortable with using dead rock is that in 15 years of running my 205 reef I never had even a single aiptasia or majano.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sfsuphysics View Post
Exactly! I have hydroid colonies that are running rampant in my tank on rocks and was trying to find ways to kill them and only them but seems like death by bleach might be the best bet.

Not sure why the acid bath is needed though. Just in case anything survived? Or to break down whatever carbonate based life/structures might still be left.
The rock reincarnation thread I linked earlier has much more detail on this, but the main reasons that resonated with me were: 1. remove the outer layer of rock that may be particularly phosphate rich, and 2. open up the pores of the rock for better bacteria hosting.

I'm also hoping the acid will remove the residual organic bits, in particular the valonia nodules that survived the bleaching intact. They are bleached white, but still have the bubble shape and moisture inside, which I am very fearful might yet contain viable spores.


__________________
Paul

Current Tank Info: 1700gal 164"x48"x56" starphire and FRP tank
pmrogers is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/13/2013, 09:38 PM   #120
vair
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Alberta
Posts: 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmrogers View Post
Thank you, vair, and thanks for your thoughts on the overflow. With the relatively small 40" wide overflow on this tank, the water level flowing over it will be between 1" and 2" high. I may be wrong, but my understanding of the toothless calfo style overflow is that one must run with a very thin layer of water going over the weir to get the benefit. With a tall wall of water going over the edge the proteins stay on the surface and don't drain effectively.

Quote from Dave.M.
The purpose of the teeth is to deliberately disrupt the surface tension. Without this the oily layer on the surface does not dissipate and drain well. The teeth break up the layer so that it can be dealt with by the skimmer. People who do not have turbulence at the edge of the overflow (e.g. Calfo style) must aim a pump or CL outlet towards the overflow to duplicate the turbulence the crenelations give you naturally.


Sorry to highjack your thread, Paul.

Dave.



Thanks, Dave.M. No worries about hijacking. I welcome on-topic discussions in this thread. If sub topics start to take on a life of their own I may want to move them to other threads, but reasonably contained side discusions are welcome.
The teeth or crenelations as Dave.M.likes to call them repel the oily layer your trying to get to flow cleanly over the weir, if there are no teeth the oily layer flows over as there's nothing stopping them, for sure the thinner the water flow the cleaner it will flow with maximum amount of proteins headed to the skimmer.

I hear you on your rock reincarnation, I'm about to do it for the first time and it is like a mini moral dilemma for sure.

All the best.


__________________
Dave
---------------------------------
Really I like my bare bottom.

"go snowboarding" www.sourceboards.com

Current Tank Info: Building a in wall 300G reef tank.
vair is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/14/2013, 04:36 AM   #121
dave.m
Registered Member
 
dave.m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Canadia
Posts: 4,276
Quote:
Originally Posted by vair
The teeth or crenelations as Dave.M.likes to call them repel the oily layer your trying to get to flow cleanly over the weir, if there are no teeth the oily layer flows over as there's nothing stopping them, for sure the thinner the water flow the cleaner it will flow with maximum amount of proteins headed to the skimmer.
Oh dear. This is an age-old argument. Are we going to rehash the whole thing again here? Yes, the teeth can inhibit drainage of the oily layer that forms on the water surface, especially if the gaps between teeth are too small (e.g. 1/8", 1/4"). Agreed, a flat overflow drains more of the oily surface layer than a toothed overflow.

BUT

A flat overflow is useless at draining floating particulate matter. The toothed overflow is much better at pulling this stuff out and sending it to the filter socks instead of having it settle as detritus all over your corals. Plus a wide enough gap in the teeth is almost as good at pulling off the oily layer as the flat Calfo-type overflow is.

Altogether, the toothed-type overflow outperforms the flat-type overflow when all the different types of junk you want to pull out of your aquarium are taken into consideration.

Dave.M


__________________
My Gawd! It's full of corals!

Current Tank Info: None. Nil. Zip. Nada.

Last edited by dave.m; 05/14/2013 at 04:54 AM.
dave.m is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/14/2013, 07:50 AM   #122
biecacka
Registered Member
 
biecacka's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 6,361
I also bleach/acid dipped my rock to ensure it killed everything. I think that is the safest way to go. I then put the I'm trash cans to cycle.
The logic on it was to kill anything the bleach might have missed and to eat off that first layer that often leeches phosphates.
I think you did the right thing in doing both

Dave, how far do you recommend the teeth for the weir?

Corey


biecacka is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/14/2013, 08:39 AM   #123
vair
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Alberta
Posts: 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave.m View Post
Oh dear. This is an age-old argument. Are we going to rehash the whole thing again here?
Dave.M
Nope.


__________________
Dave
---------------------------------
Really I like my bare bottom.

"go snowboarding" www.sourceboards.com

Current Tank Info: Building a in wall 300G reef tank.
vair is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/14/2013, 08:43 AM   #124
dave.m
Registered Member
 
dave.m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Canadia
Posts: 4,276
Quote:
Originally Posted by biecacka
Dave, how far do you recommend the teeth for the weir?
I think the gaps should be a minimum of 1/2" to 1" or more wide depending on the size of the tank. Other factors must be considered, like how close to maximum rate you intend to return water from the sump, how close to the top of the tank you want your overflow section to be, etc. The total area of the gaps must be at least equal to the area of a cross-section of the standpipe, e.g. a 2" ID standpipe has an area of 3.14" square so your gaps must total an area greater than 3.14" square which is pretty easy to achieve.

Dave.M


__________________
My Gawd! It's full of corals!

Current Tank Info: None. Nil. Zip. Nada.

Last edited by dave.m; 05/14/2013 at 09:40 AM.
dave.m is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/14/2013, 11:45 AM   #125
someotherguy
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave.m View Post
Oh dear. This is an age-old argument. Are we going to rehash the whole thing again here? Yes, the teeth can inhibit drainage of the oily layer that forms on the water surface, especially if the gaps between teeth are too small (e.g. 1/8", 1/4"). Agreed, a flat overflow drains more of the oily surface layer than a toothed overflow.

BUT

A flat overflow is useless at draining floating particulate matter. The toothed overflow is much better at pulling this stuff out and sending it to the filter socks instead of having it settle as detritus all over your corals. Plus a wide enough gap in the teeth is almost as good at pulling off the oily layer as the flat Calfo-type overflow is.

Altogether, the toothed-type overflow outperforms the flat-type overflow when all the different types of junk you want to pull out of your aquarium are taken into consideration.

Dave.M
Why is a toothed overflow better at pulling out floating particulate matter?

Pmrogers - looking forward to following this build, and I hope you don't mind these occasional diversions from your build.


__________________
Elos System 120.
someotherguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
reef

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2022
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.