Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > The Reef Chemistry Forum
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 05/17/2014, 08:21 AM   #101
Randy Holmes-Farley
Reef Chemist
 
Randy Holmes-Farley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Arlington, Massachusetts
Posts: 86,408
Viengar drives bacterial growth to reduce nutrients. I could possibly encourage cyano, but small doses generally don't seem to do that.

It could possibly contribute to sand clumping, but that happens in many tanks without vinegar dosing (including mine before I ever dosed vinegar).


__________________
Randy Holmes-Farley

Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef
Randy Holmes-Farley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/17/2014, 08:21 AM   #102
clugo
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 547
Randy, your DIY iron recipe is below. What is "sodium citrate dihydrate?"

"I selected a dose of about 0.1 to 0.3 mL of a solution containing 5 g of iron (as 25 g of ferrous sulfate heptahydrate) in 250 mL of water containing 50.7 g of sodium citrate dihydrate. "


clugo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/17/2014, 10:56 AM   #103
Randy Holmes-Farley
Reef Chemist
 
Randy Holmes-Farley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Arlington, Massachusetts
Posts: 86,408
If you have to ask, you probably can't buy it.

Try this DIY:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1807946


__________________
Randy Holmes-Farley

Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef
Randy Holmes-Farley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/17/2014, 10:59 AM   #104
clugo
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 547
thx


clugo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/17/2014, 11:03 AM   #105
Randy Holmes-Farley
Reef Chemist
 
Randy Holmes-Farley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Arlington, Massachusetts
Posts: 86,408


Happy Reefing.


__________________
Randy Holmes-Farley

Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef
Randy Holmes-Farley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/17/2014, 01:02 PM   #106
clugo
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 547
Randy does it have to be the fergon brand? Will any brand do?


clugo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/17/2014, 01:48 PM   #107
Randy Holmes-Farley
Reef Chemist
 
Randy Holmes-Farley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Arlington, Massachusetts
Posts: 86,408
Well, it should be ferrous sulfate, and then it depends on what the other ingredients include. Fergon doesn't have anything that concerns me.


__________________
Randy Holmes-Farley

Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef
Randy Holmes-Farley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/17/2014, 04:13 PM   #108
clugo
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 547
Randy, what do u thk of these ingredients? I've looked around and haven't found fergon yet.




clugo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/17/2014, 06:05 PM   #109
Randy Holmes-Farley
Reef Chemist
 
Randy Holmes-Farley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Arlington, Massachusetts
Posts: 86,408
That looks OK, let it dissolve overnight in RO/DI, shake it up, let the solids settle out,a nd use the clear greenish liquid.


__________________
Randy Holmes-Farley

Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef
Randy Holmes-Farley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/18/2014, 06:42 AM   #110
dkeller_nc
Registered Member
 
dkeller_nc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Central NC
Posts: 4,835
Clugo: Given that your tank appears to be newly set-up, what are you trying to accomplish with vinegar dosing and/or iron supplementation? One typically uses vinegar/vodka/bio-pellets in an effort to promote reduction of nitrates to nitrogen gas via bacterial action.

There's no particular harm in vinegar dosing from the start of a tank other than perhaps promoting bacterial slime and/or cyanobacteria, but one doesn't typically have nitrate issues until after the tank's been running a while and is more heavily populated.


dkeller_nc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/19/2014, 06:10 AM   #111
hugorsf
Registered Member
 
hugorsf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 181
So i'll start to dose vinegar to my tank!
I'll star with the conservative 250gallons! It's ok to follow this map?



Can i just dump all the vinegar to the sump (tank is better?) at once?


hugorsf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/19/2014, 09:05 AM   #112
tmz
ReefKeeping Mag staff

 
tmz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: West Seneca NY
Posts: 27,705
A high flow areas is agood dosing point .
Vinegar will drop pH precipitously. Better to dose it slowly during periods of photosynthesis.
I'd say you could probably dose up to 1ml per ten gallons at once without much initial effect on pH. After reaching that level , I'd spread the dose out in equal increments over the course of the day.


__________________
Tom

Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.
tmz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/19/2014, 09:57 AM   #113
Randy Holmes-Farley
Reef Chemist
 
Randy Holmes-Farley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Arlington, Massachusetts
Posts: 86,408
IMO, those chart doses are low and ramp up unnecessarily slowly.


__________________
Randy Holmes-Farley

Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef
Randy Holmes-Farley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/19/2014, 10:33 AM   #114
ridetheducati
20 and Over Club
 
ridetheducati's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Bowie, MD
Posts: 3,040
Quote:
Originally Posted by hugorsf View Post
So i'll start to dose vinegar to my tank!
I'll star with the conservative 250gallons! It's ok to follow this map?



Can i just dump all the vinegar to the sump (tank is better?) at once?
Depending on your bioload, you may end up dosing close to 200 ml of vinegar per day.


__________________
"Send more paramedics"

Current Tank Info: 300g DD, SPS dominated, Apex, Tunze 6125s, ATB 1050, 400w MH, and Geo 618 Ca Reactor
ridetheducati is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/19/2014, 10:39 AM   #115
hugorsf
Registered Member
 
hugorsf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 181
Yeahhh so i'll first finish to set-up my dosing system (need a little more programming) and then start dosing vinegar!

Thanks!


hugorsf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/28/2014, 06:15 PM   #116
swk
Registered Member
 
swk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Wine Country CA
Posts: 2,595
Just added a 1.1 ml pump to take over vinegar dosing. I was dosing in my top off water mixed with kalkwasser. Here's a picImageUploadedByTapatalk1401322512.076856.jpg

Just upgraded to this tank 3 weeks ago, so excuse the wire clutter. Have yet to strap everything down.


__________________
Member of Wine Country Reefers

Current Tank Info: 75 gal SPS dominant reef. Geo calcium reactor with masterflex pump, Deltec 1455 skimmer, 2 mp40QD, mp10wes, lit by a 6x54 dimable ATI sunpower and controlled by Reef Angel
swk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06/03/2014, 06:10 PM   #117
BrentH
Registered Member
 
BrentH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: so cal
Posts: 1,291
Nice thread I'm at 250 ml a day vinegar and.no3 hasn't seemed to move a bit yet been ramping up for over 4 weeks I'll keep going fingers crossed was going to add vodka 10 ml a day but from other thread found out better to stick with vinegar and dose more..... I've noticed my skimmer collection cup filling up faster and has to be related to the carbon dosing .curious we're does the vinegar go or do if the bacteria levels are not enough to consume?


BrentH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/04/2014, 04:56 AM   #118
Randy Holmes-Farley
Reef Chemist
 
Randy Holmes-Farley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Arlington, Massachusetts
Posts: 86,408
Other creatures are capable to taking up acetate from vinegar. Even zoox in corals, which is likely why the brown up with overdoses.


__________________
Randy Holmes-Farley

Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef
Randy Holmes-Farley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/25/2014, 01:03 PM   #119
swk
Registered Member
 
swk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Wine Country CA
Posts: 2,595
When does one stop increasing the dose?

Is it when you first see a reduction in nutrients, and then ride it out?

Or do you continue to increase until nutrients are where you want them?

I am up to around 50ml a day on a 75 gal display with 20 gal sump. I've had some sps issues lately and though I'm sure there are other things at play, I just want to check everything that I'm doing to make sure I'm not making things worse.

Thanks
Sean


swk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06/25/2014, 03:10 PM   #120
Randy Holmes-Farley
Reef Chemist
 
Randy Holmes-Farley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Arlington, Massachusetts
Posts: 86,408
It depends on why you are dosing it.

Are you tracking nutrients?


__________________
Randy Holmes-Farley

Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef
Randy Holmes-Farley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/25/2014, 03:22 PM   #121
swk
Registered Member
 
swk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Wine Country CA
Posts: 2,595
Yes to tracking nutrients. They have dropped but have not hit zero on the Red Sea pro test kits. But nitrate is around 2 and po4 is .02 and I don't have much desire to drop much lower.

Dosing was begun to help handle cyano and high nitrates which started around 15-20 ppm


__________________
Member of Wine Country Reefers

Current Tank Info: 75 gal SPS dominant reef. Geo calcium reactor with masterflex pump, Deltec 1455 skimmer, 2 mp40QD, mp10wes, lit by a 6x54 dimable ATI sunpower and controlled by Reef Angel
swk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06/25/2014, 03:24 PM   #122
swk
Registered Member
 
swk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Wine Country CA
Posts: 2,595
Also, corals have lost much color and have turned very brown with te last 2 dose increases over the last month. I have attributed some of my issues to messing with my alk, dropping from mid 9's to low 7s but wonder if the vinegar is playing a part as well.


__________________
Member of Wine Country Reefers

Current Tank Info: 75 gal SPS dominant reef. Geo calcium reactor with masterflex pump, Deltec 1455 skimmer, 2 mp40QD, mp10wes, lit by a 6x54 dimable ATI sunpower and controlled by Reef Angel
swk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06/25/2014, 03:28 PM   #123
Randy Holmes-Farley
Reef Chemist
 
Randy Holmes-Farley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Arlington, Massachusetts
Posts: 86,408
I would not keep raising it at those levels. I might even begin to taper back if it stays at those levels or goes lower.


__________________
Randy Holmes-Farley

Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef
Randy Holmes-Farley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/25/2014, 07:10 PM   #124
tmz
ReefKeeping Mag staff

 
tmz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: West Seneca NY
Posts: 27,705
FWIW, the max level I've used in my system is about .6ml per gallon( a combination of vodka and vinegar which equals .56ml of vinegar in carbon content). Beyond that and I see what I consider excessive bacterial mass in places I don't like it. However, every tank is a bit different.
I personally would not drop nutrients any lower.


__________________
Tom

Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.
tmz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/25/2014, 08:17 PM   #125
swk
Registered Member
 
swk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Wine Country CA
Posts: 2,595
Thanks you guys. I'm having some quickly browning sps pieces since the last dose increased as I've mentioned. This has been accompanied by a marked reduction in polyp extension couple with an extremely active mesenterial filament response when the tank is fed


__________________
Member of Wine Country Reefers

Current Tank Info: 75 gal SPS dominant reef. Geo calcium reactor with masterflex pump, Deltec 1455 skimmer, 2 mp40QD, mp10wes, lit by a 6x54 dimable ATI sunpower and controlled by Reef Angel
swk is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:38 PM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2018 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2014
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.