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Old 01/19/2018, 04:56 PM   #1
Indiana Reefin
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Kalk cause Imbalance between NO3 and PO4

I am at a loss here. I have a 29 gallon aquarium with
2 small matron clowns
1 small pajama cardinal
1 small twin spot blenny

I am dosing 1.5 tsp of kalk per gallon
I am currently doing a 15% water change weekly
I am using distilled water. I have tested for TDS and I am getting 0 including 0 nitrates.
I feeding around a 1/4 cube of mysis 5 times a week.
I just started dosing Nopox

My nitrates are around 30
My phosphates are around .05

Could the kalkawaser be causing this imbalance? I have heard that it will break down the phosphates and increase nitrates. I know that we are all striving for the 16:1 ratio with nitrate to phosphate. I am way off.
Pleas help me out


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Old 01/19/2018, 05:27 PM   #2
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There's a theory that Kalk can precipitate phosphate (as calcium phosphate), but it's never been shown to happen in a tank. Those nitrate and phosphate levels are consistently with a lot of other tanks, so I don't see any reason to assume that there's a problem.

I'm not sure where the 16:1 ratio originated, unless that's the Redfield Ratio, which doesn't much apply in our tanks. 30 ppm of nitrate is fine for a wide range of animals, so I'd likely just ignore it, but reducing the feeding might be appropriate if you'd like to lower the level. Other approaches might help, too. Are any animals having problems? If so, I'd try some water changes in the short term.


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Old 01/19/2018, 05:31 PM   #3
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As I understand, you could try adding vinegar to the kalk and the bacteria that grows will consume you nitrates/phosphates at a 16-1 ratio


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Old 01/19/2018, 05:47 PM   #4
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There's no guarantee that vinegar will consume the nutrients in that ratio. The actual ratio might be close, but the denitrification process can consume nitrate without any net phosphate consumption.


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Old 01/19/2018, 06:01 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bertoni View Post
There's no guarantee that vinegar will consume the nutrients in that ratio. The actual ratio might be close, but the denitrification process can consume nitrate without any net phosphate consumption.
The vinegar will not consume the nitrates, the bacteria will


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Old 01/19/2018, 06:07 PM   #6
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Thanks for all your help.
I am dosing Nopox at the moment.
How much vinager per gallon?

My frogspawn is not happy. It hasn’t come out in a couple
of weeks. It still has color and it isn’t dead but it definitely not happy


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Old 01/19/2018, 06:09 PM   #7
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I think Mr. Bertoni had a chart showing the ramping ml per gallon?


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Old 01/19/2018, 06:12 PM   #8
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NOPOx is a combination of ethanol and vinegar, basically, so you might want to increase the dose of that product. There's also a DIY recipe available. As far as vinegar goes, it'll work the same way as the NOPOx, although it might cause some side effects. Every tank seems to respond differently to carbon dosing.

This article covers vinegar dosing:

http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index....arine-aquarium

The recommendations are very conservative, though.


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Old 01/19/2018, 06:15 PM   #9
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Okay thanks for the article. I will read it.
What about a chaeto reactor?


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Old 01/19/2018, 06:39 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indiana Reefin View Post
Okay thanks for the article. I will read it.
What about a chaeto reactor?
I have a chaeto section in my sump and there is a lot of bacteria growing all over the chaeto. I believe when I clean the section and clear out some of the chaeto/bacterial sludge I am exporting the nitrates/phosphates. I currently dose approx. 50ml of vinegar a day and my system is approx. 110 gallons minus the water that 200 pounds of rock displaces, so maybe 50-60 gallons? I am at the point where any more vinegar and I get a big bloom. So probably dosing a ml of vinegar per gallon of tank water a day.
Cheers! Mark


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Old 01/19/2018, 06:43 PM   #11
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Sometimes Chaetomorpha helps with nutrient levels. It's reasonable to try adding one, but the lighting might get expensive over time. They will provide a lot of live food to the tank if you stock it with some small animals, e.g., amphipods, copepods, mysid shrimp, or appropriate isopods. If the tank has some good quality live rock, stocking might be optional.


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Old 01/19/2018, 07:07 PM   #12
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Thanks for all the help. I will read the article.
What is a good starting point for vinager per gallon in my ATO with Kalk for a 29 gallon. Probably around 20 gallons of water after displacement fro sand and rocks


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Old 01/19/2018, 07:30 PM   #13
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Diluting the vinegar will cause it to decay before getting into the tank unless you add a preservative like Kalk to it. We'd need to know the evaporation rate to help much, and also the current NOPOx dose probably should be subtracted from the total.


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Old 01/19/2018, 07:47 PM   #14
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Mix the kalk with the vinegar. Use approx. 3.75 times your nopox dose to start
Cheers!


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Old 01/19/2018, 07:56 PM   #15
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I use about a gallon in 3 days.
I am dosing .7 ml of Nopox


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Old 01/19/2018, 08:19 PM   #16
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I have never dosed nopox but arent you supposed to add about 2ml a day per 25 gallons?


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Old 01/19/2018, 09:10 PM   #17
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I am taking it slow.
A lot of people suggest dosing half of what your supposed to. I am playing it a little more safe and I intend on increasing weekly


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Old 01/19/2018, 09:36 PM   #18
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How long have you been dosing?


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Old 01/20/2018, 08:24 AM   #19
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Just this week lol


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Old 01/20/2018, 08:44 AM   #20
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Well if nopox is anything like vinegar, it will take some time to see results. I had to wait until the bacteria that ate the carbon got established and consumed nitrates/phosphates. And it seems that with the very little nopox you are dosing, you are not going to see a huge instant change. Patience.
Cheers! Mark


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Old 01/20/2018, 11:03 AM   #21
Indiana Reefin
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Yeah I figured.
Based on bertoni’s vinager dosing chart. I should only start with .8 ml a day for the first three days. Should I start here or should I do more since I have been dosing Nopox?


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Old 01/20/2018, 12:10 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indiana Reefin View Post
Yeah I figured.
Based on bertoniís vinager dosing chart. I should only start with .8 ml a day for the first three days. Should I start here or should I do more since I have been dosing Nopox?
Me personally? I would start at 5ml a day for 3 days, then 10ml a day for 5 days, then bump it to 12ml per day for 10 days and increase/decrease as needed. Keep an eye out for bacterial snot (wont hurt anything, but is not pretty) keep checking your parameters. I like to check PH because the bacteria can deplete oxygen which would drive PH down. When you get your parameters leveled out, or you have issues, start backing down on your dose. Remember you may have to feed more if you have corals.
Good Luck! Mark


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Old 01/20/2018, 12:20 PM   #23
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I presume that you have a good skimmer and good circulation (especially at the surface)?


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Old 01/20/2018, 12:34 PM   #24
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I have a tunze 9001 which works pretty well and an mp10 and a AC70 that puts out around 350 GPH on the surface

So I should put 15 ml of vinager to star out in a gallon of ATO since I use 1/3 a gallon a day



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Old 01/20/2018, 04:25 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indiana Reefin View Post
I have a tunze 9001 which works pretty well and an mp10 and a AC70 that puts out around 350 GPH on the surface

So I should put 15 ml of vinager to star out in a gallon of ATO since I use 1/3 a gallon a day
Thats what I would do. There is kalk in there too? What is your tank PH towards the end of your daylight cycle?


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