Algae Scrubber Basics

[daninfamous]

Wow, it took me forever to read this entire thread. Im glad I did though I seen a over the tank ATS which im going to try to emulate because im sumpless.

I have also been to inland aquatics and its pretty amazing, they have huge scrubbers that also drop water back into the system in like a wave. Inland is huge, they have like a storefront and then a freaking warehouse full of giant custom containers full of ocean life. Pretty crazy.

Ill post some pictures once I get my over the tank scrubber started.

thanks all.

[redneckgearhead]

Hey Floyd, quick question. I put new bulbs in, 5700k "sunlight" bulbs and my screen is a little more yellow so I am going to cut the time back on the lights. How long should I give the algae to green back up before I cut more time back?

I hope that question is clear.

[mcurtis]

Quick question guys on time schedules. I know it says 18 hours on and 6 hours off for the ATS lights.

Which would be a better time schedule for the tank as far as when to turn on my ats lights? I thought long ago i read about how the tank needed a couple of hours between the lights kicking on from when the main lights go off, to maximize ..... Here are the options, and please suggest your own as well.

Option A:

MH ON - 8:30 AM
MH OFF - 7:30 PM
ATS Lights ON - 7:30 PM
ATS Lights OFF - 1:30 PM (Next Day)

Option B:

MH ON - 8:30 AM
MH OFF - 7:30 PM
ATS Lights ON - 1:30 AM
ATS Lights OFF - 7:30 PM (Next Day)

Option C: Suggestions??

Thanks!

[SPotter]

Well decreasing the length of my screen and improving my flow is already showing an amazing difference. The growth on my screen after 3 days since my last cleaning is already greater than what i had all last week. Can't wait to clean it again!!!

Steve

[Floyd R Turbo]

Originally Posted by terahz

I was partially joking about the CW/RB as my rocks look like turf scrubbers at the moment .

But yeah, that's why I said red and blue. Basically green algae have both chlorophylls a and b (if this book is to be believed). And if this is to be believed their light absorption peaks are in the areas of 430nm and 665nm for A and 460nm and 645nm for B.

From CREEs datasheets: XPE royal blue is at 465nm (I guess as close as it gets to the 430-460nm range) so all we need is a decent red - a little bit broader spectrum - (cree's reds are peaking at 630nm and is at only 10% intensity at 650nm so basically useless) and we're all set Anyone know of a red LED that is shin king in the 630-670nm range?

Anyway, I haven't really read the entire thread so maybe I'm repeating things that have been said before, if so I apologize.

425/660 and 460/660 is about as close as you're going to get. My hydroponics guy basically said that there is no 640 LED and 630 does wonders for plants and 660 no so good. But this is in contrast to what people have experienced with algae which is why I'm doing my experiment.

3W LED may be too intense up close and too spotty which is why I'm using 1W in a tighter array

[rysher]

Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo

425/660 and 460/660 is about as close as you're going to get. My hydroponics guy basically said that there is no 640 LED and 630 does wonders for plants and 660 no so good. But this is in contrast to what people have experienced with algae which is why I'm doing my experiment.

3W LED may be too intense up close and too spotty which is why I'm using 1W in a tighter array

keep us posted, tagging along.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Originally Posted by redneckgearhead

Hey Floyd, quick question. I put new bulbs in, 5700k "sunlight" bulbs and my screen is a little more yellow so I am going to cut the time back on the lights. How long should I give the algae to green back up before I cut more time back?

I hope that question is clear.

yellow means too much light for the amount of nutrients being delivered. You can up the flow, add iron, or decrease the photoperiod. If you do the latter, the algae should start growing more green within a few days. What you need though is more intense light for the shorter period to maintain filtering. If it was green before you switched to the higher kelvin light, then I would go back to the other kelvin light. Then lower K light grows algae better generally

My theory on the kelvin is still evolving. Due to the results of LED builds, my thoughts are that the excess light in bandwidths that are not efficiently utilized by the algae tend to overload it more easily. This may be a big reason why the LED based scrubber could be more efficient. So far, this is only supported by evidence I have seen from people trying various combinations of LEDs, so it's by no means a scientific conclusion, but it seems to make sense.

This theory seems to fit with the fact that algae seems to grow better under lower K lamps, which are heavier in the red spectrum. So intensity trumping spectrum may not actually be 100% true, it just may be some kind of unaccounted for result that we don't quite understand yet.

What lamp were you using before you switch to the 5700K?

[XSiVE]

week 3 cleaning, tons of brown, I could see a little green poking through, there were definitely air bubbles stuck inside the algae so Im pretty happy about that.

I think I got something like 1/3 cup (wet) off the screen.

I still was not happy with the overall flow to the screen so I made a change and re-plumbed one of the two overflows from my display to the scrubber... it should be getting more in the range of 35gph/inch now instead of 25, and I added another light.

Im excited to harvest next week!

[Floyd R Turbo]

Originally Posted by mcurtis

Quick question guys on time schedules. I know it says 18 hours on and 6 hours off for the ATS lights.

Which would be a better time schedule for the tank as far as when to turn on my ats lights? I thought long ago i read about how the tank needed a couple of hours between the lights kicking on from when the main lights go off, to maximize ..... Here are the options, and please suggest your own as well.

Option A:

MH ON - 8:30 AM
MH OFF - 7:30 PM
ATS Lights ON - 7:30 PM
ATS Lights OFF - 1:30 PM (Next Day)

Option B:

MH ON - 8:30 AM
MH OFF - 7:30 PM
ATS Lights ON - 1:30 AM
ATS Lights OFF - 7:30 PM (Next Day)

Option C: Suggestions??

Thanks!

I would overlap your scrubber light cycle on both sides so that your scrubber lights are on 5pm-11am, 4pm-10am, something along those lines. This will help keep the pH up at night. As long as the light isn't bleeding into your tank, you'll be fine. You might have to watch the heat as MHs and scrubber lights running at the same time might heat up the tank a little more than desired.

Mine is currently set up on top of my tank and has pretty shoddy light blocking capability so my tank gets light all night, not the perfect scenario but I still don't have problems. Right now I think it contributes to a dino issue that returns if I don't stay on top of alk dosing and I'm getting a little bit of green cyano in one corner so I wouldn't recommend a top-of-tank scrubber unless the light is as close to 100% blocked as possible.

[mcurtis]

Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo

I would overlap your scrubber light cycle on both sides so that your scrubber lights are on 5pm-11am, 4pm-10am, something along those lines. This will help keep the pH up at night. As long as the light isn't bleeding into your tank, you'll be fine. You might have to watch the heat as MHs and scrubber lights running at the same time might heat up the tank a little more than desired.

Mine is currently set up on top of my tank and has pretty shoddy light blocking capability so my tank gets light all night, not the perfect scenario but I still don't have problems. Right now I think it contributes to a dino issue that returns if I don't stay on top of alk dosing and I'm getting a little bit of green cyano in one corner so I wouldn't recommend a top-of-tank scrubber unless the light is as close to 100% blocked as possible.

Thanks for your suggestions. I do have a couple of question. My current ats light cycle is at 7:30 pm to 1:30 pm (next day). You suggest 5 pm to 11 am (next day). It looks like you are suggesting to back it up 2 1/2 hours for the start time. My MH turns off at 7:30 pm, so once that turns off my ats lights are on with my current schedule. I am not sure how backing up the time schedule will help ph that much as it is on reverse light cycle and overlapping a bit in the morning already. You can explain this a little more to me on the benefits?

The ats light is below in the stand, so no light enters the main tank. I also have a chiller, so if it does heat up a little more, i will just turn down the chiller

[Floyd R Turbo]

I didn't know that Option A was your current schedule. Should be fine the way it is then. Overlapping them slightly will allow the algae to ramp up filtration and oxygenation/CO2 consumption before the MHs kick off. If you kick one off and the other on, there might be a short dip in pH as the corals stop photosynthesis and the algae starts. Maybe do 7pm-1pm.

[mcurtis]

No worries.. thanks for explaining. Good idea, i will crank it back 30 minutes.

Thanks!

[XSiVE]

Three days after cleaning the screen (I guess im between week 3 and 4 now) and i've already got almost the same amount of algae growth as I had all 7 days last week. I guess the increased flow from plumbing it off the display's overflow has made a huge difference, check the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbwxXqWX6C0

[srusso]

Originally Posted by XSiVE

Three days after cleaning the screen (I guess im between week 3 and 4 now) and i've already got almost the same amount of algae growth as I had all 7 days last week. I guess the increased flow from plumbing it off the display's overflow has made a huge difference, check the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbwxXqWX6C0

Yes, flow makes a huge difference. Looks like you have proper flow now.

How scary is it to hold your phone over your sump like that while taking that video?! I always crap a brick every time I take close up video like that! Lol so scared I am going to drop it in!!

[XSiVE]

Originally Posted by srusso

Yes, flow makes a huge difference. Looks like you have proper flow now.

How scary is it to hold your phone over your sump like that while taking that video?! I always crap a brick every time I take close up video like that! Lol so scared I am going to drop it in!!

Thanks, It's nice to have a successful scrubber view say it looks good

And about the phone, I didn't even think about it until i uploaded the video and watched it, then I was like oh holy crap!

[pskelton]

I have been for 6 months now and all I get is black/brown algae. Early on the implementation of the scrubber was a last resort to save me from several system design mistakes which brought my nitrate above 160 PPM. Long story short water changes were not making any long term affects and a limited aquarium budget I decided to try an algae scrubber. With in a few weeks of install my nitrate dropped to 40-50 PPM and finally after 6 months of running my nitrate is a solid 0 PPM. I am sure it could have happened faster if I had used brighter lights but that fact is it worked and my tank is very healthy today.

My scrubber (See pic for reference)
Now I am looking to improve the performance of my algae scrubber. I have never had anything other than black/brown algae even after adding iron. The flow over the screen is 35 gal/min/in as recommended. This is a 55 gallon tank, the screen if 6.5 in wide and it extends a good 14 inches into the bucket. Only about half the length of the screen gets direct light, so the directly lighted section is approximately the right amount of square inches. I am running two 23watt CFLs which I realize its a little under powered for a 55 Gallon tank but I am very space limited and the 23 watt bulbs fit the reflectors perfectly.

I am sure that I could add more bulbs or increase the watts and I would probably start growing green hair algae but I was wondering if there are any other changes I could make to get the same affect.

A couple questions I have are as follows:
1) I can not cut the length of the screen down since the length of it is to prevent splashing into the bottom of the bucket. Should I place a shield over the bottom half of the screen to prevent the spill over of light from getting to the screen? Would this buy me anything?

2) Should I cut a new slot pipe for a narrower screen and design my screen dimensions around 2 23 watt bulbs instead of the size of my tank?

3) My screen is not the recommended size needle point mesh it once size smaller (smaller holes). I already have a piece of the recommended screen standing by, should I start a new screen with the recommended material?

4) My screen has been dominated by black algae for 6 months (when the nitrates where above 0 I was cleaning the screen every 3-4 days). Could it be that my screen after being dominated by this type of algae for so long is unable to let the green algae take root? Should I start a new screen?

I am open to any and all recommendation. Thanks in advance.

[pskelton]

I forgot to mention my bio load.

1 yellow tail damsel
1 yellow tang
1 royal blue tang
2 clown fish
1 snow flake eel (14 inch long eats only 2 times a week)

I feed the fish a couple pinches of food a day

[yz250motoxrider]

help please so i just finished my algea scrubber.Its 21" by 17" and its hooked up to my overflows. i tryed it with about 600gph and no good one side had perfect coverage and the other side had terrible coverage so i cranked up the flow to about 1500gph and the the coverage on the good side just got thicker. nothing changed on the bad side. will this even itself over time. I really hope this works ive had really bad cyno algea since i set up the tank.

Thank you!

[pskelton]

Originally Posted by yz250motoxrider

help please so i just finished my algea scrubber.Its 21" by 17" and its hooked up to my overflows. i tryed it with about 600gph and no good one side had perfect coverage and the other side had terrible coverage so i cranked up the flow to about 1500gph and the the coverage on the good side just got thicker. nothing changed on the bad side. will this even itself over time. I really hope this works ive had really bad cyno algea since i set up the tank.

Thank you!

My screen did that when I started too. Let a little slim grow on it and is will even out as long as your slot is cut straight.

That is a huge screen? How big is your tank? 21*17=357 sq inches. Is this a 350 gallon tank?

[yz250motoxrider]

the tank is a marineland 300dd with a 75 gallon sump with alot of cyno. Thanks for the advice i was going to dismantle it lol.

[tyler91913]

okay, so I'm onto week four of scrubbing. I've attached progress pics from cleanings at the end of weeks two and three.

I've got a couple of questions I was hoping could be fielded by folks in this thread--maybe they've been answered, but I don't remember anything about this from reading the thread last month.

First, you can see from the most recent cleaning pic that there is a handful of yellow blotches in the middle of the dark, dark green crud growing on the screen. What are they? I've heard of people getting all yellow screens or "hot spots" directly in front of their light source, but these seem more random than that.

Second, where are the promised pods? Before I added my six line, I used to see tons of them in my DT and sump; now he seems to have cleaned them all out. Are they there, just invisible to the naked eye?

Third, the bottom of my sump is collecting a pretty serious layer of brown dust, which is new since switching to ATS. Anyone know what this is? Should I be vacuuming it out when doing water changes?

Thanks in advance! Tyler

[mistaflicksta]

havent been on here lately, here are some pics of today's ATS harvest (one week's worth) nitrates are down to .25ppm almost undetectable. phosphate is now undetectable

[Floyd R Turbo]

Originally Posted by yz250motoxrider

help please so i just finished my algea scrubber.Its 21" by 17" and its hooked up to my overflows. i tryed it with about 600gph and no good one side had perfect coverage and the other side had terrible coverage so i cranked up the flow to about 1500gph and the the coverage on the good side just got thicker. nothing changed on the bad side. will this even itself over time. I really hope this works ive had really bad cyno algea since i set up the tank.

Thank you!

Need much more info before I can give a good answer to this one. Flow is only one aspect, you need to consider lighting coverage/intensity, light cycle, straightness of slot, roughness of screen, etc. Please post pics if you can and explain as much about your scrubber and your system as possible.

Originally Posted by tyler91913

okay, so I'm onto week four of scrubbing. I've attached progress pics from cleanings at the end of weeks two and three.

I've got a couple of questions I was hoping could be fielded by folks in this thread--maybe they've been answered, but I don't remember anything about this from reading the thread last month.

First, you can see from the most recent cleaning pic that there is a handful of yellow blotches in the middle of the dark, dark green crud growing on the screen. What are they? I've heard of people getting all yellow screens or "hot spots" directly in front of their light source, but these seem more random than that.

Second, where are the promised pods? Before I added my six line, I used to see tons of them in my DT and sump; now he seems to have cleaned them all out. Are they there, just invisible to the naked eye?

Third, the bottom of my sump is collecting a pretty serious layer of brown dust, which is new since switching to ATS. Anyone know what this is? Should I be vacuuming it out when doing water changes?

Thanks in advance! Tyler

Pods are microscopic in general, so they're probably there. Try looking at night. I have a section of my tank that has a leather up against the glass and it acts as a mini refugium area where my scooter blenny can't get them, there's got to be a hundred of them there, then at night I can see them shooting in and out of the rocks all over.

As for your screen, looks like a high nutrient system. The dark algae growth indicates this. You mention the yellow patches but on the 2nd pic it looks like round bare spots. This could be pods or dark growth (light blocking) causing detachment, or the screen is not rough enough. It's not a hotspot or you would see rubbery yellow algae, which is a sign of too much light in relation to nutrient delivery (flow), which I don't see. You may need more light (more intensity, not longer duration)

Crud in the sump: detritus settling out. If you run a bare sump (no filter sock or anything else) then you're going to get this, scrubber or not. Siphon out occasionally. I usually do that every month or two

[pskelton]

Originally Posted by pskelton

I have been for 6 months now and all I get is black/brown algae. Early on the implementation of the scrubber was a last resort to save me from several system design mistakes which brought my nitrate above 160 PPM. Long story short water changes were not making any long term affects and a limited aquarium budget I decided to try an algae scrubber. With in a few weeks of install my nitrate dropped to 40-50 PPM and finally after 6 months of running my nitrate is a solid 0 PPM. I am sure it could have happened faster if I had used brighter lights but that fact is it worked and my tank is very healthy today.

My scrubber (See pic for reference)
Now I am looking to improve the performance of my algae scrubber. I have never had anything other than black/brown algae even after adding iron. The flow over the screen is 35 gal/min/in as recommended. This is a 55 gallon tank, the screen if 6.5 in wide and it extends a good 14 inches into the bucket. Only about half the length of the screen gets direct light, so the directly lighted section is approximately the right amount of square inches. I am running two 23watt CFLs which I realize its a little under powered for a 55 Gallon tank but I am very space limited and the 23 watt bulbs fit the reflectors perfectly.

I am sure that I could add more bulbs or increase the watts and I would probably start growing green hair algae but I was wondering if there are any other changes I could make to get the same affect.

A couple questions I have are as follows:
1) I can not cut the length of the screen down since the length of it is to prevent splashing into the bottom of the bucket. Should I place a shield over the bottom half of the screen to prevent the spill over of light from getting to the screen? Would this buy me anything?

2) Should I cut a new slot pipe for a narrower screen and design my screen dimensions around 2 23 watt bulbs instead of the size of my tank?

3) My screen is not the recommended size needle point mesh it once size smaller (smaller holes). I already have a piece of the recommended screen standing by, should I start a new screen with the recommended material?

4) My screen has been dominated by black algae for 6 months (when the nitrates where above 0 I was cleaning the screen every 3-4 days). Could it be that my screen after being dominated by this type of algae for so long is unable to let the green algae take root? Should I start a new screen?

I am open to any and all recommendation. Thanks in advance.

Anu sugestions from the scrubber gurus? Floyd? Srusso?

[tyler91913]

Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo

Pods are microscopic in general, so they're probably there. Try looking at night. I have a section of my tank that has a leather up against the glass and it acts as a mini refugium area where my scooter blenny can't get them, there's got to be a hundred of them there, then at night I can see them shooting in and out of the rocks all over.

As for your screen, looks like a high nutrient system. The dark algae growth indicates this. You mention the yellow patches but on the 2nd pic it looks like round bare spots. This could be pods or dark growth (light blocking) causing detachment, or the screen is not rough enough. It's not a hotspot or you would see rubbery yellow algae, which is a sign of too much light in relation to nutrient delivery (flow), which I don't see. You may need more light (more intensity, not longer duration)

Crud in the sump: detritus settling out. If you run a bare sump (no filter sock or anything else) then you're going to get this, scrubber or not. Siphon out occasionally. I usually do that every month or two

Thaks for the reply.

Pods: I used to have a similar experience with pods under the edge of a cabbage leather, but I've since reaquascaped so that I can access all the glass with a mag-float so I don't see them anymore. Plus, I've added the six line, and he's a hungry little guy.

Screen: I'll try doing some more roughing next Sunday when I clean it. High nutrients? Maybe. I'd have a tough time adding brighter lights without some significant redesign, so I'm going to continue with this experiment as is for the moment and see how things pan out. Notice the jump in algae production between the two pics I posted.

Detritus: Is this like food particles that are breaking down into nitrates, or is it benign?