My 240g FOWLR - Page 3

SDguy · 06/06/2013, 10:44 PM

I'm kind of anti-tang with this tank. I QT'ed a tiny hippo with this last batch but didn't transfer him to the DT. I really want a fowleri but obviously don't have the room at this point.... so, no tangs for me it seems for this tank.

caribfan · 06/07/2013, 04:47 AM

Sorry to ask an equipment question, but what kind of return pump are you using. I'm looking at the dart/snapper hybrid for my set up and want to be sure it's enough flow. The guy I bought the tank from was using a hammerhead.

SDguy · 06/07/2013, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caribfan

Sorry to ask an equipment question, but what kind of return pump are you using. I'm looking at the dart/snapper hybrid for my set up and want to be sure it's enough flow. The guy I bought the tank from was using a hammerhead.

I'm not a fan of high flow returns/sumps. I don't see the point to it. I use a submersible... I'll have to check the model number, I think it's a QuietOne 6000?

KeepNitReel · 06/07/2013, 07:58 AM

Very nice tank! Glad to see someone that's not afraid to stock a tank! Tired of seeing big empty tanks with 6 fish in it screaming their overstocked!

SDguy · 06/07/2013, 08:01 AM

True, there are a lot of fish, but I tried to keep in mind eventual sizes and temperments of these fish. Believe me, I'm not thrilled that I have a 240g tank and still can't have a big queen or emp angel!

angelfish7 · 06/07/2013, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayL

angelfish7 - Current Tank Info: 220 fowlr-blueface,queen, emperor,false personifer, Scribbled, and French angels, blond naso tang,blue throat trigger

Are all these angels adults? do you see any aggression between them or are they peaceful? Seems like a lot of potentially large fish in this tank

RayL
The blueface, french, and emperor have pretty much gotten to adult size. The Scribbled, personifer and Queen are 5-6" range. I've had these all since they were juvie except for the blueface. Amazingly they get along well. though the emp tends to show its dominance once in a while. If i cant upgrade this year then im thinking of selling the three larger angels and adding some butterflys.

SDguy · 06/07/2013, 11:28 AM

I think I'm going to have to catch the semilarvatus this weekend and give him a time out in the fuge. He's just so aggressive to the falcula and the parachaetodons...

angelfish7 · 06/07/2013, 12:08 PM

SD
you should send him to me... my angels should keep him in check ! too bad youre acrossthe country !

SDguy · 06/07/2013, 12:16 PM

Well I am hoping to not have to remove him permanently.

angelfish7 · 06/07/2013, 12:34 PM

BTW i have 55g QT . how many butterfly would u say i can QT at once if a added eggcrate if necessary. would love to order at least 3 soon . thanks

SDguy · 06/07/2013, 01:51 PM

I don't see any issue with that.

RayL · 06/07/2013, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angelfish7

RayL
The blueface, french, and emperor have pretty much gotten to adult size. The Scribbled, personifer and Queen are 5-6" range. I've had these all since they were juvie except for the blueface. Amazingly they get along well. though the emp tends to show its dominance once in a while. If i cant upgrade this year then im thinking of selling the three larger angels and adding some butterflys.

Thats a good plan, I love angels as well and as soon as I can afford my upgrade I will be making an angel and tang tank

jjk_reef00 · 06/08/2013, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDguy

I think I'm going to have to catch the semilarvatus this weekend and give him a time out in the fuge. He's just so aggressive to the falcula and the parachaetodons...

From the video he looks huge! Your dusky has also grown significantly, is he aggressive at all? Mine seems to be getting more aggressive as he grows.

azjohnny · 06/09/2013, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDguy

I'm not a fan of high flow returns/sumps. I don't see the point to it. I use a submersible... I'll have to check the model number, I think it's a QuietOne 6000?

Completely agree!!....

Unless you have a beckett skimmer I would run about 20x the amount of actual water volume in your sump for your return flow. This will make your filtration more effective and rely on CL/circulation pumps for your water movement within the tank

caribfan · 06/09/2013, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azjohnny

Completely agree!!....

Unless you have a beckett skimmer I would run about 20x the amount of actual water volume in your sump for your return flow. This will make your filtration more effective and rely on CL/circulation pumps for your water movement within the tank

Not disagreeing, but I wondered it you could explain your logic.

Why do you like 20x the sump volume? How does it make the filtration more efficient.

Again, not agreeing or disagreeing, just want your point of view as I'm getting ready to purchase a return pump for my new 240 fowlr.

azjohnny · 06/09/2013, 11:14 AM

its the ability of your skimmer to process water, if the flow is too fast the water will just flow by the skimmer instead of being drawn into. A beckett skimmer will process a lot more water than a needlewheel. If the speed is too fast for your skimmer the water will still get processed just at a slower rate. This has been a heated debate before....Flow through the sump, Which is better

IME if you have too much flow you will turbulence in the sump and any micro bubbles that do get produced will make it back to the DT

caribfan · 06/09/2013, 01:55 PM

Makes sense...

Could you not do what many people do with a fuge and restrict the flow to the skimming chamber?

My concern with lower return rates has to do with the nitrification process and ensuring adequate flow to the denitrifiers, which I assume are inhabiting the live rock in the absence of bioballs.

Although from the looks of Peters tank, maybe I should just do what he does.

I'll stop hijacking and leave my equipment questions for another thread.

Thanks for your reply azjohnny.

SDguy · 06/09/2013, 02:09 PM

Nothing wrong with equipment questions here

Basically IMO as much of your water as possible that comes down the overflow should be going into your protein skimmer.

azjohnny · 06/09/2013, 02:28 PM

I feel with keeping a marine tank its all about nutrient import and export, if you can export organics before they become ammonia you will keep you nitrates at a very low level.

I have set up my FOWLR water flow wise a lot like a reef tank with over 40x water turnover within the DT using Ecotech pumps. This gets the organics removed via the overflow, into a felt sock and the remaining getting skimmed out. I have removed about 90% of my sand and that has been a big help, I am about to go BB

caribfan · 06/09/2013, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDguy

Nothing wrong with equipment questions here

Basically IMO as much of your water as possible that comes down the overflow should be going into your protein skimmer.

I suppose that's based on the pump for the skimmer. So if your return pump is double the flow of the skimmer pump, half the water coming to the sump would go unprocessed, so to speak.

This makes sense.

This has been helpful.

SDguy · 06/10/2013, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjk_reef00

From the video he looks huge! Your dusky has also grown significantly, is he aggressive at all? Mine seems to be getting more aggressive as he grows.

Sorry, I missed this post

I have to admit looking at the fish lately, several of the butterflies are quite large at this point, especially the saddleback and marginalis!

The dusky has definitely grown a bit, especially in girth. Fatty!

BTW, I put the trap in Friday night, opened the door, and the golden butterfly swam right in to check things out

Didn't even get the food in there yet!

SDguy · 06/10/2013, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azjohnny

I have removed about 90% of my sand and that has been a big help, I am about to go BB

Be prepared for all the commentary on how you need to add sand becuase it looks better

caribfan · 06/10/2013, 11:35 AM

Let me ask this question, what are the downsides of having a high flow return pump. Be fess power usage?

SDguy · 06/10/2013, 01:25 PM

Well, there's the physical aspect. Unless you have a sump specifically designed for high flow (which I've seen done... pretty neat) you end up with splashing/noise, salt creep, microbubbles etc.

The other main thing would be, IMO, if you are going through all this trouble to surface skim the DT, I'd like to capture as much of that surface water in the skimmer, rather than it just shooting past the skimmer to be re-diluted and pumped back into the tank.

jjk_reef00 · 06/10/2013, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDguy

Sorry, I missed this post

I have to admit looking at the fish lately, several of the butterflies are quite large at this point, especially the saddleback and marginalis!

The dusky has definitely grown a bit, especially in girth. Fatty!

BTW, I put the trap in Friday night, opened the door, and the golden butterfly swam right in to check things out

Didn't even get the food in there yet!

That is great that you got him out without a fuss.
Are you going to store him in your qt tank?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDguy

Be prepared for all the commentary on how you need to add sand becuase it looks better

+1 on this, people are constantly asking why I have no sand or telling me I need sand

06/06/2013, 10:44 PM	#51
SDguy Fish heads unite! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 23,384	I'm kind of anti-tang with this tank. I QT'ed a tiny hippo with this last batch but didn't transfer him to the DT. I really want a fowleri but obviously don't have the room at this point.... so, no tangs for me it seems for this tank. __________________ Peter SDMAS member Marine tanks since 1989. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º> Current Tank Info: 240g butterfly and angel FOWLR. 15g QT.

06/07/2013, 08:01 AM	#55
SDguy Fish heads unite! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 23,384	True, there are a lot of fish, but I tried to keep in mind eventual sizes and temperments of these fish. Believe me, I'm not thrilled that I have a 240g tank and still can't have a big queen or emp angel! __________________ Peter SDMAS member Marine tanks since 1989. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º> Current Tank Info: 240g butterfly and angel FOWLR. 15g QT.

06/07/2013, 11:28 AM	#57
SDguy Fish heads unite! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 23,384	I think I'm going to have to catch the semilarvatus this weekend and give him a time out in the fuge. He's just so aggressive to the falcula and the parachaetodons... __________________ Peter SDMAS member Marine tanks since 1989. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º> Current Tank Info: 240g butterfly and angel FOWLR. 15g QT.

06/07/2013, 12:08 PM	#58
angelfish7 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Central Jersey Posts: 359	SD you should send him to me... my angels should keep him in check ! too bad youre acrossthe country ! __________________ Peter Current Tank Info: Scribbled angel, blond naso tang, purple tang, fowleri tang, percula clown. /f - SRO 3000 INT skimmer

06/07/2013, 12:16 PM	#59
SDguy Fish heads unite! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 23,384	Well I am hoping to not have to remove him permanently. __________________ Peter SDMAS member Marine tanks since 1989. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º> Current Tank Info: 240g butterfly and angel FOWLR. 15g QT.

06/07/2013, 04:47 AM	#52
caribfan Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 1,922	Sorry to ask an equipment question, but what kind of return pump are you using. I'm looking at the dart/snapper hybrid for my set up and want to be sure it's enough flow. The guy I bought the tank from was using a hammerhead.

06/07/2013, 07:58 AM	#54
KeepNitReel Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Henrico, Virginia Posts: 490	Very nice tank! Glad to see someone that's not afraid to stock a tank! Tired of seeing big empty tanks with 6 fish in it screaming their overstocked!

06/07/2013, 12:34 PM	#60
angelfish7 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Central Jersey Posts: 359	BTW i have 55g QT . how many butterfly would u say i can QT at once if a added eggcrate if necessary. would love to order at least 3 soon . thanks __________________ Peter Current Tank Info: Scribbled angel, blond naso tang, purple tang, fowleri tang, percula clown. /f - SRO 3000 INT skimmer

06/07/2013, 01:51 PM	#61
SDguy Fish heads unite! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 23,384	I don't see any issue with that. __________________ Peter SDMAS member Marine tanks since 1989. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º> Current Tank Info: 240g butterfly and angel FOWLR. 15g QT.

06/09/2013, 11:14 AM	#66
azjohnny Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Gold Canyon Posts: 2,914	its the ability of your skimmer to process water, if the flow is too fast the water will just flow by the skimmer instead of being drawn into. A beckett skimmer will process a lot more water than a needlewheel. If the speed is too fast for your skimmer the water will still get processed just at a slower rate. This has been a heated debate before....Flow through the sump, Which is better IME if you have too much flow you will turbulence in the sump and any micro bubbles that do get produced will make it back to the DT

06/09/2013, 01:55 PM	#67
caribfan Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 1,922	Makes sense... Could you not do what many people do with a fuge and restrict the flow to the skimming chamber? My concern with lower return rates has to do with the nitrification process and ensuring adequate flow to the denitrifiers, which I assume are inhabiting the live rock in the absence of bioballs. Although from the looks of Peters tank, maybe I should just do what he does. I'll stop hijacking and leave my equipment questions for another thread. Thanks for your reply azjohnny.

06/09/2013, 02:09 PM	#68
SDguy Fish heads unite! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 23,384	Nothing wrong with equipment questions here Basically IMO as much of your water as possible that comes down the overflow should be going into your protein skimmer. __________________ Peter SDMAS member Marine tanks since 1989. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º> Current Tank Info: 240g butterfly and angel FOWLR. 15g QT.

06/09/2013, 02:28 PM	#69
azjohnny Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Gold Canyon Posts: 2,914	I feel with keeping a marine tank its all about nutrient import and export, if you can export organics before they become ammonia you will keep you nitrates at a very low level. I have set up my FOWLR water flow wise a lot like a reef tank with over 40x water turnover within the DT using Ecotech pumps. This gets the organics removed via the overflow, into a felt sock and the remaining getting skimmed out. I have removed about 90% of my sand and that has been a big help, I am about to go BB

06/10/2013, 11:35 AM	#73
caribfan Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 1,922	Let me ask this question, what are the downsides of having a high flow return pump. Be fess power usage?

06/10/2013, 01:25 PM	#74
SDguy Fish heads unite! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 23,384	Well, there's the physical aspect. Unless you have a sump specifically designed for high flow (which I've seen done... pretty neat) you end up with splashing/noise, salt creep, microbubbles etc. The other main thing would be, IMO, if you are going through all this trouble to surface skim the DT, I'd like to capture as much of that surface water in the skimmer, rather than it just shooting past the skimmer to be re-diluted and pumped back into the tank. __________________ Peter SDMAS member Marine tanks since 1989. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º> Current Tank Info: 240g butterfly and angel FOWLR. 15g QT.