Matrix (and siporax) questions, to keep from derailing Sahin's thread.....

[Reefvet]

Originally Posted by Myka

Thank you for your reply reefvet.
What do you think about disturbing the media to clean it?

Sorry, I'm replying to these out of order. I'm writing while I wait for 18k gallons of NSW to fill a tank here in the lab and I skipped down the page by accident, missing this question. When I'm moving that much water I like to keep any eye on it

My preference is to just shake the media or stir it up if it's not in a reactor, never taking it out of the water. Siporax and all the media work fine without being neatly stacked or having perfectly even water movement but I do suggest that they always be used after a filter sock /sponge and skimmer.

[naterealbig]

Originally Posted by Reefvet

Which you will never achieve because of the boundary effects that occur as you near the edges of the sump and water level raises because it's not a closed chamber. You are also suggesting that you'd have a completely linear input of water across the media, that's not going to happen either unless you construct a very large manifold that would be as wide and tall as the entry point of the sump.

To optimize this stuff you need a reactor. To use it effectively without one just takes a little more trial and error. Both are fun if you're a hobbyist, IMO.

You win! I will leave any further input and estimation to the pros.

[.Chris.]

Originally Posted by Reefvet

VERY typical numbers. Siporax and Matrix are very porous media and Matrix is slower to colonize but either will take a good 90 days to really be effective.

Yeah, I was concerned when I saw zero, and I mean ZERO, change in parameters for the first 6-8 weeks. But it cost me absolutely nothing to continue running it, as it is zero maintenance and takes up no room at all. Glad I stuck it out.

[Reefvet]

Originally Posted by naterealbig

You win! I will leave any further input and estimation to the pros.

This is not a competition. It's not about winning We're hobbyists sharing information and your contributions have been appreciated. The problem is mother nature doesn't follow simple math.

[Ontheway]

Originally Posted by Reefvet

This is not a competition. It's not about winning We're hobbyists sharing information and your contributions have been appreciated. The problem is mother nature doesn't follow simple math.

Reefvet, as we know, bacteria will need a carbon source both in sump and reactor method, and in this case, this is obtained from circulating aquarium water. Should we think about effects of feeding frequency and content on providing the carbon type they need?
Wondering if this method work equally well on lightly fed tanks?

[sahin]

Originally Posted by Ontheway

?

I use around 3 litres, maybe slightly more.

Originally Posted by Reefvet

Siporax can have up to 30 times the capacity of live rock to support beneficial bacteria facilitating denitrification. .

Thanks for confirming that. My experience using it has been that it is very effective.

FWIW; I think some of you are overthinking its application. Stack it or bag it. Place in sump after skimmer. If you use filter bags then detritus buildup will remain minimal. If you dont, then occasional replacement might be a good idea.

I know the stuff can go at least 2 years before replacement even with "average" detritus deposit.

[Moser]

Why do you need to replace it?

Mine has been working for 3 years. I haven't really touched it.
I hadn't thought to clean it.


Mo

[Myka]

Originally Posted by Moser

Why do you need to replace it?

Mine has been working for 3 years. I haven't really touched it.
I hadn't thought to clean it.


Mo

The theory is that the tiny pores will get clogged and no longer function as efficiently, or at all.

Originally Posted by sahin

FWIW; I think some of you are overthinking its application.

Be that as it may, if you've read much of my own tank journal, you'd know I'm a perfectionist, and live by the wise words of Sumwan Onthay Eantarnit, "Do a task, big or small, do it right, or not at all!" Oh the burden of perfectionism.

Originally Posted by Reefvet

Sorry, I'm replying to these out of order. I'm writing while I wait for 18k gallons of NSW to fill a tank here in the lab and I skipped down the page by accident, missing this question. When I'm moving that much water I like to keep any eye on it

My preference is to just shake the media or stir it up if it's not in a reactor, never taking it out of the water. Siporax and all the media work fine without being neatly stacked or having perfectly even water movement but I do suggest that they always be used after a filter sock /sponge and skimmer.

Uhm, yeah, don't turn your back on 18,000 gallons flowing. Maybe shaking it in a bag is good enough. I don't have much room in my sump though, so I want it to be as effective as possible. Into a reactor it goes! Thanks for your advice reefvet.

[jackson6745]

It's been 4 moths since I filled my sump with Marinepure biomedia spheres + block. My nitrates are the lowest they've been since I started my tank. Last few weeks they were 5ppm, now down to 2ppm. This is in a heavily fed 130g system with 20 fish. Last year I was running nitrates as high at 50ppm! There's definitely something to this media because I am still feeding heavily, and haven't increased amount of water changes.

IMG_5612 by rich colombo, on Flickr

[biecacka]

Hoping to have same ^^^^results. My nitrates are 50-75 in my 240 with 20 fish. While this is fine for a softy tank, I'm transitioning to more LPS and eyeing SPS real quick.

Corey

[Ontheway]

Originally Posted by jackson6745

It's been 4 moths since I filled my sump with Marinepure biomedia spheres + block. My nitrates are the lowest they've been since I started my tank. Last few weeks they were 5ppm, now down to 2ppm. This is in a heavily fed 130g system with 20 fish. Last year I was running nitrates as high at 50ppm! There's definitely something to this media because I am still feeding heavily, and haven't increased amount of water changes.
...

Hi, can you provide some details about your feeding regime, if you can state the brands of food, frequency of feeding etc., thank you.

[markalot]

Originally Posted by jackson6745

It's been 4 moths since I filled my sump with Marinepure biomedia spheres + block. My nitrates are the lowest they've been since I started my tank. Last few weeks they were 5ppm, now down to 2ppm. This is in a heavily fed 130g system with 20 fish. Last year I was running nitrates as high at 50ppm! There's definitely something to this media because I am still feeding heavily, and haven't increased amount of water changes.

IMG_5612 by rich colombo, on Flickr

Your tank looked fantastic at 50ppm Rich! How are you controlling PO4? I'm thinking of filling my bio-pellet reactor with Matrix rather than use vinegar for NO3 reduction.

[jackson6745]

Originally Posted by Ontheway

Hi, can you provide some details about your feeding regime, if you can state the brands of food, frequency of feeding etc., thank you.

My fish get fed 2-3 times per day. Usually 1 dry feeding with a variety of Spectrum pellets, New era pellets, and several types of spirulina flake. The frozen food is usually the volume of 4-6 frozen cubes of mysis. Regular mysis, gut loaded mysis, jumbo mysis for my larger wrasses, and LRS reef frenzy.
I feed a lot!

[jackson6745]

Originally Posted by markalot

Your tank looked fantastic at 50ppm Rich! How are you controlling PO4? I'm thinking of filling my bio-pellet reactor with Matrix rather than use vinegar for NO3 reduction.

I have that phosban reactor running which seems to do the job. Po4 is .01 last I tested on the big blue low range hanna meter. IME, it's tough to get the po4 low, but once you do it's easier to keep it there.

[Ontheway]

Originally Posted by jackson6745

My fish get fed 2-3 times per day. Usually 1 dry feeding with a variety of Spectrum pellets, New era pellets, and several types of spirulina flake. The frozen food is usually the volume of 4-6 frozen cubes of mysis. Regular mysis, gut loaded mysis, jumbo mysis for my larger wrasses, and LRS reef frenzy.
I feed a lot!

4-6 cubes per day, in130g ? How often you empty the skimmer ?

[Moser]

Originally Posted by Myka

The theory is that the tiny pores will get clogged and no longer function as efficiently, or at all.

I realise that, but in practice, 3 years and no shaking and mine still seem to be working ok?

I have an algae bed too, but it doesn't produce masses of algae, so I assume the Siporax isn't throwing out a boat load of nutrients?

So where does the "you have to rinse it" theory come from? And detritus consists of fairly large particles, how does it block micro pores, or indeed even if the pores were blocked, how do they still stop particles as small as bacterial cells getting through? If water can get in, so can bacteria??


Mo

[jackson6745]

Originally Posted by Ontheway

4-6 cubes per day, in130g ? How often you empty the skimmer ?

Every 4 -5 days.

[Mortie31]

After a lot of reading I decided to remove my DSB from my sump and Started with Matrix 8 weeks ago, I got an old canister filter out of the garage from my first tank and put 5L in it, it's fed from an old pump about 400l per hour output I'm guessing, seems to be really effective and last week swapped my Zeolites out for another 3 L of matrix my nitrates are holding at 1 -2 and phosphates at 0.07 which is where I like them so all looking good. system is 900L in total so I know I'm using way to much but I like to feed really heavy and as I don't have to replace it every few months as with Zeo it seemed to be worth spending the extra upfront just to make sure I had enough media, and I'm an old sceptic and always think manufacturers over claim their products ability so went with my gut that more can't hurt.

[Denadai]

Well guys I have a 180G FO and my NO3 was 20ppm.

I did a huge WC, removed all my sand in the main tank , changed my sump and now I have seachem matrix plus siporax and chaeto.

My No3 is now 1-3ppm for about a month and I´m going to add some SPS frags because FO is not so funny, even knowing that I can move to another house soon and have to stop with this tank...but life without SPS is not a life :-)

I have no doubt that siporax , matrix and all kind of media like that really work

Best Regards

[Ontheway]

Originally Posted by Denadai

Well guys I have a 180G FO and my NO3 was 20ppm.

I did a huge WC, removed all my sand in the main tank , changed my sump and now I have seachem matrix plus siporax and chaeto.

My No3 is now 1-3ppm for about a month and I´m going to add some SPS frags because FO is not so funny, even knowing that I can move to another house soon and have to stop with this tank...but life without SPS is not a life :-)

I have no doubt that siporax , matrix and all kind of media like that really work

Best Regards

Hi, thank you for sharing this info, got some questions. May I ask for a recent photo of the sump, showing siporax placement? And, would like to know how many liters of siporax you used for 180g? Also wondering how long it took to get to 1-3 ppm level. People here are mostly reporting 3-4 months to get under 5ppm.

[Ancelot]

Originally Posted by Denadai

Well guys I have a 180G FO and my NO3 was 20ppm.

I did a huge WC, removed all my sand in the main tank , changed my sump and now I have seachem matrix plus siporax and chaeto.

My No3 is now 1-3ppm for about a month and I´m going to add some SPS frags because FO is not so funny, even knowing that I can move to another house soon and have to stop with this tank...but life without SPS is not a life :-)

I have no doubt that siporax , matrix and all kind of media like that really work

Best Regards

Guru is here!

[Syntax1325]

How much Matrix and Siporax can fit in a Phosban 150? I've got a spare 150 around and am wondering if I could use it?

[Denadai]

Originally Posted by Ontheway

Hi, thank you for sharing this info, got some questions. May I ask for a recent photo of the sump, showing siporax placement? And, would like to know how many liters of siporax you used for 180g? Also wondering how long it took to get to 1-3 ppm level. People here are mostly reporting 3-4 months to get under 5ppm.

I´m using 6L of siporax pond and 1L of matrix. Remember that I did a huge water change before add siporax and matrix and this certainly helped a lot.

As a rule of thumb 1L for each 100L ( 25G ) but you can add more if you want

After 30 days my no3 is not raising anymore

Here some pics :







A filter sock is a good idea to add before the water go through siporax and keep them clean

Originally Posted by Ancelot

Guru is here!

Always an apprentice

Originally Posted by dsovetsky

How much Matrix and Siporax can fit in a Phosban 150? I've got a spare 150 around and am wondering if I could use it?

I think maybe 1L ..you can use but the water should be clean through the reactor and the flow should not be strong

Best Regards

[Ontheway]

Thanks for the pics. I see your light for macro Algae also illuminates PS. Just a side question, dont you suffer from Coralline development on inner surface of your skimmer ?
Edit. Love your PS output silencer. Changed my skimmer recently, partly due to this noise, and salt creep, of course..

[Denadai]

Originally Posted by Ontheway

Just a side question, dont you suffer from Coralline development on inner surface of your skimmer ?
Edit. Love your PS output silencer. Changed my skimmer recently, partly due to this noise, and salt creep, of course..

The system is new...so you are right..maybe I have coralline issues in the future

The PS output silencer is what I call MacGyver solution

Best Regards