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Old 02/21/2012, 06:23 AM   #226
stickleback
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Know its old, but its a Great Thread.

One thought that struck me about giving nems an antibiotic bath is that maybe the good bacteria is being killed along with the bad. Maybe the good bacteria within the nems gut, is being wiped out therefore it can no longer digest food. The un-digested food will then start to decompose and start the downhill cycle again. Does that sound plausible?
Maybe after a nem has been put through one of these baths, some good bacterial could be added to the nems food (pre-digested maybe) to kick start the nems own digestion process?


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Old 03/04/2012, 02:13 AM   #227
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Wow thanks for sharing all the great pics. Absolutely BEAUTIFUL!


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Old 04/08/2012, 08:36 PM   #228
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Sorry I missed this thread. I have been out of the hobby for a while now due to a happy but too busy life with four young kids. I do hope you all get this topic worked out by the time the kids are all in college and I can restart the tanks.

I wanted to add a link to this old thread that has a plethora of information for anyone still looking into this
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=628314


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Old 07/08/2012, 02:03 PM   #229
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It is always a bummer when a special creature like the anemone is lost. I say this from previous experience.

At his moment I have two RBTAs three GBTAs on the left side of my tank with a breeding pair of Tomato clowns hosting in the BTAs.

I added(rescued) a six inch Brown Tue Carpet anemone about two months ago from Petco for $25. I have feed him a razor clam with silverside sandwhich once per week like I feed the BTAs.

As the Tomato clowns will not accept another clown I happended to get a free Domino Damsel which was returned to the lfs from someone who said it was "mean". He hid for one month from my four stripe damsels before he was accepted into the community to swiim without being bothered. I had read where a Domino will host in a True Carpet Anemone if one is present. The Domino made a territory around and hoving over the True Carpet.

This monring for the first time I saw him "in" the True Carpet.

I thinks it is better for an anemone to have a host than to not have a host.


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Old 07/08/2012, 05:42 PM   #230
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There are times and situations where not having clownfish is better for the overall health of the anemone. I have had weak and recovering anemones get beaten up by clowns and had food stolen from them after they had expended the energy of "catching" the food I placed in the tentacles, drawn it to their mouth and had the clowns then drive in and steal the food from the anemones. I lost one weakened H.magnifica anemone that way, and while bringing another back from the brink, saw the clowns engaging in the same behavior.

I order to save the anemone, I seperated it from the clowns and over time it made a full recovery and now the clowns are being hosted by that H.magnifica.

Do NOT get into the mindset that clowns/damsels are ALWAYS a good thing for the anemone. There are times when the anemone is not able to handle the stress induced by hosting a fish symbiont.

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Old 07/09/2012, 07:38 PM   #231
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There is always a myriad of circumstances with salt water creatures.

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Originally Posted by maxxII View Post
There are times and situations where not having clownfish is better for the overall health of the anemone. I have had weak and recovering anemones get beaten up by clowns and had food stolen from them after they had expended the energy of "catching" the food I placed in the tentacles, drawn it to their mouth and had the clowns then drive in and steal the food from the anemones. I lost one weakened H.magnifica anemone that way, and while bringing another back from the brink, saw the clowns engaging in the same behavior.

I order to save the anemone, I seperated it from the clowns and over time it made a full recovery and now the clowns are being hosted by that H.magnifica.

Do NOT get into the mindset that clowns/damsels are ALWAYS a good thing for the anemone. There are times when the anemone is not able to handle the stress induced by hosting a fish symbiont.

Nick
ThatFishPlace out of Lancaster, Pennsylvania has a Web site which has a page describing what species of clownfish host in what species of anemone in the ocean.

I think this is a good place to start finding an appropriate host for you anemone.

My Tomato clowns totally ignore my True Carpet anemone.

I fortunately have a six year old pair of Tomato clowns who have always taken care of their bubble tip anemones. They will even take floating food and put it into their anemones. The female is so protective of the five bubble tips she will bite through two sugical gloves and draw blood.

I suppose if you have an anemone which is very, very small AND sick and it is kept it with a larger clownfish, you might have a circumstance like you state. Then the answer might be would the anemone have died anyway without the clownfish trying to host?

It is obvious that nothing is 100% although in my experience I have always had my Tomato clownfish take care of a green bubble tip I move from the right side to the left because it 1) was not doing well on the right side and 2) I wanted to put a True Carpet anemone on the right side by itself. This anemone was gently carressed by the Tomato clowns and it is now doing spendidly!

So do not get in the mind set that a weakened anemone will not get help from a caring and protective clownfish.

I wondering whether the clownfish stealing from the anemones were tank raised?

I think my pair might have been from the ocean although I do not know as I got them from a lfs 20 miles north six years ago.

I cannot stress how caring they are with their anemones to help them acclimate and grow.

I would always try to get an anemone a good host if at all possible since that is what they do in the ocean, the real world!


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Old 07/09/2012, 08:53 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finsky View Post
ThatFishPlace out of Lancaster, Pennsylvania has a Web site which has a page describing what species of clownfish host in what species of anemone in the ocean.

I think this is a good place to start finding an appropriate host for you anemone.

My Tomato clowns totally ignore my True Carpet anemone.

I fortunately have a six year old pair of Tomato clowns who have always taken care of their bubble tip anemones. They will even take floating food and put it into their anemones. The female is so protective of the five bubble tips she will bite through two sugical gloves and draw blood.

I suppose if you have an anemone which is very, very small AND sick and it is kept it with a larger clownfish, you might have a circumstance like you state. Then the answer might be would the anemone have died anyway without the clownfish trying to host?

It is obvious that nothing is 100% although in my experience I have always had my Tomato clownfish take care of a green bubble tip I move from the right side to the left because it 1) was not doing well on the right side and 2) I wanted to put a True Carpet anemone on the right side by itself. This anemone was gently carressed by the Tomato clowns and it is now doing spendidly!

So do not get in the mind set that a weakened anemone will not get help from a caring and protective clownfish.

I wondering whether the clownfish stealing from the anemones were tank raised?

I think my pair might have been from the ocean although I do not know as I got them from a lfs 20 miles north six years ago.

I cannot stress how caring they are with their anemones to help them acclimate and grow.

I would always try to get an anemone a good host if at all possible since that is what they do in the ocean, the real world!
Finsky,

I dont mean to be rude, but there is some misinformation in your post:

Anemone's are the host organism. Clownfish are symbionts being hosted by the anemone.

Clowns bring food to the anemone because its a safe place to bring food, and they dont have to fight other fish for it. They are not feeding the anemone. The anemone has feeding response to the food touching its chemical receptors. But the clowns are not deliberately feeding the anemone.

My Picasso Percula clowns almost killed my purple based H.magnifica anemone.

Heteractis Magnifica - Tell me some success stories 1st page, post 15 is where I start detailing the process I used to bring the anemone back to full health. These same clowns killed a larger and healthier H.magnifica I bought locally less than 6 months prior to this, by stealing food from its mouth. I had no idea clowns could do this so I didnt pay too close attention and by the time I figured it out, it was too late and the anemone was not able to survive. These clowns were about a year and half old at that point and were not at breeding age. They are now.

The part where you state a weakened anemone would die on its own without a host, (symbiont) is entirely correct. If its so weak that it wont survive on its own, adding clowns to it is the worst thing you could do it. Get the anemone healthy first, then add clowns. If the clowns are too rough, then remove them and wait until the anemone is in better shape.

As far as clowns being tank raised causing them to steal from the host anemone. I have two pairs of breeding Percula's, both were captive bred and steal from their host. I have had other wild caught clowns that did the same thing.

The vast majority of commonly available clownfish in the hobby are actually tank bred and raised these days. The exotic breeds are generally the ones that are wild caught. Chrystopterus clowns, (Blue Stripe) clowns are a good example of this.

I'm not advocating keeping anemones without clowns. I'm advocating acclimating anemones without clowns until they are healthy enough to handle it. There is a difference.

Nick


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Old 07/10/2012, 11:02 PM   #233
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I am not a Marine Biologist and I am so grateful to have you "correct" my "errors"

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxxII View Post
Finsky,

I dont mean to be rude, but there is some misinformation in your post:

Anemone's are the host organism. Clownfish are symbionts being hosted by the anemone.

Clowns bring food to the anemone because its a safe place to bring food, and they dont have to fight other fish for it. They are not feeding the anemone. The anemone has feeding response to the food touching its chemical receptors. But the clowns are not deliberately feeding the anemone.

My Picasso Percula clowns almost killed my purple based H.magnifica anemone.

Heteractis Magnifica - Tell me some success stories 1st page, post 15 is where I start detailing the process I used to bring the anemone back to full health. These same clowns killed a larger and healthier H.magnifica I bought locally less than 6 months prior to this, by stealing food from its mouth. I had no idea clowns could do this so I didnt pay too close attention and by the time I figured it out, it was too late and the anemone was not able to survive. These clowns were about a year and half old at that point and were not at breeding age. They are now.

The part where you state a weakened anemone would die on its own without a host, (symbiont) is entirely correct. If its so weak that it wont survive on its own, adding clowns to it is the worst thing you could do it. Get the anemone healthy first, then add clowns. If the clowns are too rough, then remove them and wait until the anemone is in better shape.

As far as clowns being tank raised causing them to steal from the host anemone. I have two pairs of breeding Percula's, both were captive bred and steal from their host. I have had other wild caught clowns that did the same thing.

The vast majority of commonly available clownfish in the hobby are actually tank bred and raised these days. The exotic breeds are generally the ones that are wild caught. Chrystopterus clowns, (Blue Stripe) clowns are a good example of this.

I'm not advocating keeping anemones without clowns. I'm advocating acclimating anemones without clowns until they are healthy enough to handle it. There is a difference.

Nick
Yes, I should have used the verb "hosting" in the anemone when referring to the clownfish and anemones. I was just reading about the different relationships between ocean creatures "and their scientific terms" for one organism benefiting the other being hurt, both organisms benefiting, one benefiting and the other neither benefiting or hurt, in Tropical Fish Hobbyist or Tropical Fish International with all the biological terms for the different relationships As far as bringing food to the anemone, my Tomato clowns never bring food when I broadcast feed my tank three times per week or lightly feed on off days. The only time I have noticed my Tomatos, the female usually, bringing "food" to an anemone is when I have been target feeding the five Bubble Tip anemones and one True Carpet anemone with their weekly 1/2" pieces of razor clam. The clownfish will only return a large piece of razor clam that was floating freely and they put it in the anemone. I suppose you could get differing views on whether she is "hiding" razor clam in the anemones to eat herself later or "feeding" the anemones. My female Tomato will nuzzle an anemone with a 1/2" piece of razor clam inside it has wrapped around almost appearing to nuzzle the food very lightly.

I would wonder what Julius Sprung would say about your insight into unsuccessful clownfish hosting and your clowns behavior towards your anemones. I think it is possible to have a clownfish do more harm than good with a "sick" anemone although the "sick" anemone maybe is sick in the first place due to incorrect water quality, lighting, circulation in the tank, feeding, etc. I think with all these aspects correct for your anemone, a hosting or clownfish hosting in the anemone is a good thing more often than not. I can only say this from my experience and what I have read.

Please visit the following Web site link to read more on clownfish and anemones which is "probably" written with input by one or more Marine Biologists?

http://blogs.thatpetplace.com/thatfi...ne-preference/


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Last edited by Finsky; 07/10/2012 at 11:23 PM. Reason: grammar correction
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Old 07/11/2012, 04:16 AM   #234
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This thread has steered waaay off course, but let's clarify a few things...

Quote:
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Finsky,
I'm not advocating keeping anemones without clowns. I'm advocating acclimating anemones without clowns until they are healthy enough to handle it. There is a difference.
+1. There are many accounts of clowns being very "rough" on anemones. I've experienced it as well. When I first added my purple gigantea, my onyx clowns tried to torpedo their way into the anemone's mouth. The gig died three weeks later -- I don't think it was exclusively a result of the clowns beating up the anemone, but the clowns definitely didn't "help" the anemone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finsky View Post
As far as bringing food to the anemone, my Tomato clowns never bring food when I broadcast feed my tank three times per week or lightly feed on off days. The only time I have noticed my Tomatos, the female usually, bringing "food" to an anemone is when I have been target feeding the five Bubble Tip anemones and one True Carpet anemone with their weekly 1/2" pieces of razor clam. The clownfish will only return a large piece of razor clam that was floating freely and they put it in the anemone. I suppose you could get differing views on whether she is "hiding" razor clam in the anemones to eat herself later or "feeding" the anemones. My female Tomato will nuzzle an anemone with a 1/2" piece of razor clam inside it has wrapped around almost appearing to nuzzle the food very lightly.

I would wonder what Julius Sprung would say about your insight into unsuccessful clownfish hosting and your clowns behavior towards your anemones. I think it is possible to have a clownfish do more harm than good with a "sick" anemone although the "sick" anemone maybe is sick in the first place due to incorrect water quality, lighting, circulation in the tank, feeding, etc. I think with all these aspects correct for your anemone, a hosting or clownfish hosting in the anemone is a good thing more often than not. I can only say this from my experience and what I have read.

Please visit the following Web site link to read more on clownfish and anemones which is "probably" written with input by one or more Marine Biologists?

http://blogs.thatpetplace.com/thatfi...ne-preference/
Rather than reading blogs from a pet store, I suggest picking up a copy of "Anemone Fishes and Their Host Sea Anemones" by Fautin and Allen. Fautin is recognized as the clownfish and host anemone expert.

Here's what the book says about clowns feeding anemones:

"Recall that clownfishes are never found in nature without an anemone; this is an obligate association for them, although in captivity they are capable of living by themselves. It seems obvious that they are protected by the anemone with which they live -- when threatened, they dive among its tentacles, from which most other fishes remain distant. We have taken clownfish far from their anemones, and have removed anemones from beneath their fish. Poor swimmers, they sooner (in the former instance) or later (in the latter) became prey of larger fish. The presence of an anemone is also essential to reproduction of the fishes: their eggs are laid beneath the oral disc overhang of the anemone, where they are tended by the male (see chapter 4).

In an aquarium, without an actinian, captive fish will bathe among air bubbles or frondose vegetation, so we infer that they obtain tactile stimulation from anemone tentacles. And the claim of some aquarists that the fish are livelier and healthier when kept with anemones suggests other benefits as well.

Indeed, aquarists have added much to knowledge of this symbiosis. Many have seen fish bring food to their anemones. This behaviour seems confined to aquaria. The normal diet of clownfishes is small plants and animals that live in the water above the anemone, or algae that grow around it (chapter 4). In nature, they do not encounter large particles of food, so they eat their food where it is found. Feeding large morsels to a fish in an aquarium produces an artifact: the fish, unable to devour the piece immediately, takes it home to work on it in the relative security of its own territory, as is typical of predators that obtain food in large amounts. But the territory in this case consumes the food!"


Finally, I think you meant Julian Sprung, unless he's got a brother named Julius.


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Old 07/11/2012, 08:03 PM   #235
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Drs. Foster and Smith have multiple Marine Biologist working for them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nak View Post
This thread has steered waaay off course, but let's clarify a few things...



+1. There are many accounts of clowns being very "rough" on anemones. I've experienced it as well. When I first added my purple gigantea, my onyx clowns tried to torpedo their way into the anemone's mouth. The gig died three weeks later -- I don't think it was exclusively a result of the clowns beating up the anemone, but the clowns definitely didn't "help" the anemone.



Rather than reading blogs from a pet store, I suggest picking up a copy of "Anemone Fishes and Their Host Sea Anemones" by Fautin and Allen. Fautin is recognized as the clownfish and host anemone expert.

Here's what the book says about clowns feeding anemones:

"Recall that clownfishes are never found in nature without an anemone; this is an obligate association for them, although in captivity they are capable of living by themselves. It seems obvious that they are protected by the anemone with which they live -- when threatened, they dive among its tentacles, from which most other fishes remain distant. We have taken clownfish far from their anemones, and have removed anemones from beneath their fish. Poor swimmers, they sooner (in the former instance) or later (in the latter) became prey of larger fish. The presence of an anemone is also essential to reproduction of the fishes: their eggs are laid beneath the oral disc overhang of the anemone, where they are tended by the male (see chapter 4).

In an aquarium, without an actinian, captive fish will bathe among air bubbles or frondose vegetation, so we infer that they obtain tactile stimulation from anemone tentacles. And the claim of some aquarists that the fish are livelier and healthier when kept with anemones suggests other benefits as well.

Indeed, aquarists have added much to knowledge of this symbiosis. Many have seen fish bring food to their anemones. This behaviour seems confined to aquaria. The normal diet of clownfishes is small plants and animals that live in the water above the anemone, or algae that grow around it (chapter 4). In nature, they do not encounter large particles of food, so they eat their food where it is found. Feeding large morsels to a fish in an aquarium produces an artifact: the fish, unable to devour the piece immediately, takes it home to work on it in the relative security of its own territory, as is typical of predators that obtain food in large amounts. But the territory in this case consumes the food!"


Finally, I think you meant Julian Sprung, unless he's got a brother named Julius.
Yes of course you are correct.

I am sorry you are having sick anemones as I have experienced this myself.

Now I have three year old bubble tips and a six month old True Carpet anemone doing well.

They have a very gentle pair of Tomato clowns who do not burrow into them like a ramrod. They have always been gentle. Maybe I was just fotunate to find a breeding pair who continue to breed and are very gentle with their anemones.

I attribute most if not all anmone sicknesses due to the capture and acclimation process up to the time it is taken home from the lfs although it can continue a downward trend if the correct aquarium environment is not given.

I have found anemones ordered through Dr. Fosters and Smith Live Aquaria online to be healthy and stay that way.

Again, all joking aside, I think it is imperative to acquire healthy anemones AND to provide them with a healthy environment which takes alot of work and knowledge gained by experience and readling. I own and have read Julian Sprung's three volumes.


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Last edited by Finsky; 07/11/2012 at 08:04 PM. Reason: more information
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Old 07/11/2012, 09:05 PM   #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finsky View Post
I am not a Marine Biologist and I am so grateful to have you "correct" my "errors"

Yes, I should have used the verb "hosting" in the anemone when referring to the clownfish and anemones. I was just reading about the different relationships between ocean creatures "and their scientific terms" for one organism benefiting the other being hurt, both organisms benefiting, one benefiting and the other neither benefiting or hurt, in Tropical Fish Hobbyist or Tropical Fish International with all the biological terms for the different relationships As far as bringing food to the anemone, my Tomato clowns never bring food when I broadcast feed my tank three times per week or lightly feed on off days. The only time I have noticed my Tomatos, the female usually, bringing "food" to an anemone is when I have been target feeding the five Bubble Tip anemones and one True Carpet anemone with their weekly 1/2" pieces of razor clam. The clownfish will only return a large piece of razor clam that was floating freely and they put it in the anemone. I suppose you could get differing views on whether she is "hiding" razor clam in the anemones to eat herself later or "feeding" the anemones. My female Tomato will nuzzle an anemone with a 1/2" piece of razor clam inside it has wrapped around almost appearing to nuzzle the food very lightly.

I would wonder what Julius Sprung would say about your insight into unsuccessful clownfish hosting and your clowns behavior towards your anemones. I think it is possible to have a clownfish do more harm than good with a "sick" anemone although the "sick" anemone maybe is sick in the first place due to incorrect water quality, lighting, circulation in the tank, feeding, etc. I think with all these aspects correct for your anemone, a hosting or clownfish hosting in the anemone is a good thing more often than not. I can only say this from my experience and what I have read.

Please visit the following Web site link to read more on clownfish and anemones which is "probably" written with input by one or more Marine Biologists?

http://blogs.thatpetplace.com/thatfi...ne-preference/


Finsky,
I am not now, nor have I been or claimed to be a Marine Biologist. I have taken Marine Biology in both high school and in college, but thatís about the extent of my formal education in it. Like you and 95% of the rest of the people on this board, I consider myself to be a hobbyist. With that mindset, I have studied up on aspects of this hobby that interest me. Iíve been keeping salt water aquariums since I was 12 years old and my parents were stationed in Hawaii. I used to collect critters and bring them home. Iím now 38 and over the years have learned things through experiencing both success and failure. I find it hearbreaking and frustrating to lose an animal in my system, therefore Iíve studied up and tried to learn best practices to be successful in the long term care and health of my critters. I donít claim to know everything, nor do I claim that I have even most of the answers. There are some very, very smart and experienced people here on the board (Joe YaiulloÖgoes by JustJoe here on the board who maintains public aquariums,), Phil Henderson, (Phender here on the board) is a science teacher in California and is quoted and referenced in many books about anemones and clownfish, Rod Buehler, (Rodís Food fame, breeder of Rodís Onyx Percula clowns, and the only person I know who has personally kept an S gigantea anemone for well over a decade)Ögoes by his name here on the board, I have absolutely NO idea what the real life names of Bonsai Nut, Marina P, or delphinus are here on the board, or what they do for a living, but they are extremely knowledgeable and experienced. These are just a fraction of the ďtalent poolĒ here on the board. There are many, many more here whom I cant think of just at this moment...all of whom happen to be much more knowledgeable and experianced than me.

Since it is cheaper for you and anyone else here on the board who bothers to read my posts to learn from my mistakes vs. repeating them for yourself, I feel that sharing my knowledge and experiences is a good way to further this hobby. With that in mind, I wasnít intending to ďcorrectĒ your ďerrorsĒ but rather to point out that you were misinformed.


Up above you refer to ďsickĒ anemones. I referred to weakened anemones. I live in St Louis MO. For me to receive any anemone, its been shipped all over the place and is in a severely weakened state. In many cases they are sick from disease as well. My point was that adding clownfish to an anemone in either a sick, or a weakened state, (or both) before it has a chance to get healthy, can be detrimental to the anemone. I explained how and why I came to this conclusion. By all means, feel free to disregard any and all of my comments or posts and do as you see fit with your aquarium and your critters. I wish you nothing but success in your endeavors.

With regard to the link you providedÖI hope it wasnít written with input from one or two Marine Biologists, because there is very little information in that article, and the list of clownfish and their host anemones in the wild is incorrect.

Here is a list of online articles you can read at your leisure and a list of books you might want to check out at the library or purchase on your own:

Here is an online abridged version of the book DNAK recommended above.
FIELD GUIDE TO ANEMONE FISHES AND THEIR HOST SEA ANEMONES

http://www.reefs.org/library/article/r_toonen8.html

http://www.breedersregistry.org/anem...veyresults.htm

http://www.netpets.org/fish/referenc...ref/heter.html

http://www.amazon.com/Reef-Aquarium-...283155_b2_15_p

http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Coral-R...2058232&sr=1-6

http://www.amazon.com/Field-Guide-An...phne+G.+Fautin

http://www.amazon.com/Anemone-Fishes...phne+G.+Fautin


To be honest with you, these books and links are a good start when it comes to learning about anemones, but the best source of knowledge youíre going to find is right here on the web.

Best of luck to you.

Nick


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Old 07/14/2012, 05:22 PM   #237
Finsky
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Finsky,
I am not now, nor have I been or claimed to be a Marine Biologist. I have taken Marine Biology in both high school and in college, but that’s about the extent of my formal education in it. Like you and 95% of the rest of the people on this board, I consider myself to be a hobbyist. With that mindset, I have studied up on aspects of this hobby that interest me. I’ve been keeping salt water aquariums since I was 12 years old and my parents were stationed in Hawaii. I used to collect critters and bring them home. I’m now 38 and over the years have learned things through experiencing both success and failure. I find it hearbreaking and frustrating to lose an animal in my system, therefore I’ve studied up and tried to learn best practices to be successful in the long term care and health of my critters. I don’t claim to know everything, nor do I claim that I have even most of the answers. There are some very, very smart and experienced people here on the board (Joe Yaiullo…goes by JustJoe here on the board who maintains public aquariums,), Phil Henderson, (Phender here on the board) is a science teacher in California and is quoted and referenced in many books about anemones and clownfish, Rod Buehler, (Rod’s Food fame, breeder of Rod’s Onyx Percula clowns, and the only person I know who has personally kept an S gigantea anemone for well over a decade)…goes by his name here on the board, I have absolutely NO idea what the real life names of Bonsai Nut, Marina P, or delphinus are here on the board, or what they do for a living, but they are extremely knowledgeable and experienced. These are just a fraction of the “talent pool” here on the board. There are many, many more here whom I cant think of just at this moment...all of whom happen to be much more knowledgeable and experianced than me.

Since it is cheaper for you and anyone else here on the board who bothers to read my posts to learn from my mistakes vs. repeating them for yourself, I feel that sharing my knowledge and experiences is a good way to further this hobby. With that in mind, I wasn’t intending to “correct” your “errors” but rather to point out that you were misinformed.


Up above you refer to “sick” anemones. I referred to weakened anemones. I live in St Louis MO. For me to receive any anemone, its been shipped all over the place and is in a severely weakened state. In many cases they are sick from disease as well. My point was that adding clownfish to an anemone in either a sick, or a weakened state, (or both) before it has a chance to get healthy, can be detrimental to the anemone. I explained how and why I came to this conclusion. By all means, feel free to disregard any and all of my comments or posts and do as you see fit with your aquarium and your critters. I wish you nothing but success in your endeavors.

With regard to the link you provided…I hope it wasn’t written with input from one or two Marine Biologists, because there is very little information in that article, and the list of clownfish and their host anemones in the wild is incorrect.

Here is a list of online articles you can read at your leisure and a list of books you might want to check out at the library or purchase on your own:

Here is an online abridged version of the book DNAK recommended above.
FIELD GUIDE TO ANEMONE FISHES AND THEIR HOST SEA ANEMONES

http://www.reefs.org/library/article/r_toonen8.html

http://www.breedersregistry.org/anem...veyresults.htm

http://www.netpets.org/fish/referenc...ref/heter.html

http://www.amazon.com/Reef-Aquarium-...283155_b2_15_p

http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Coral-R...2058232&sr=1-6

http://www.amazon.com/Field-Guide-An...phne+G.+Fautin

http://www.amazon.com/Anemone-Fishes...phne+G.+Fautin


To be honest with you, these books and links are a good start when it comes to learning about anemones, but the best source of knowledge you’re going to find is right here on the web.

Best of luck to you.

Nick
Golly. I am glad you are around to identify misinformation.

Since I am misinformed according to you, I hesitate to share my knowledge and/or experiences with you or any of your "numberous?" devotes.

Hogwash, semantics, sick/weaked, is not my game, as I work in a different field than English Language Arts. I was talkiing about one and the same when I referred to "sick". An anemone that is not healthy.

Today I did my weekly anemone feeding of razor clam and silverside . I usually break up into small pieces any razor clam I have left after feeding half inch pieces to my anemones with plastic tongs. My female Tomato clown took one of those small bite sized pieces into her mouth and then spit it out. She did not bring that back to her anemone to keep it safe and eat it later? Could there be "any" truth to the possibility that a clownfish will feed its host anemone?

I also feed my fish with Vita-Chem soaked food three times a week with the weekly dosage required for a 125 gallon tank. I also feed the corals, invertebrates, and polyps Kent Marine Phytoplex, Chromoplex, Zooplex, and Microvert twice per week. The these liquid foods and vitamins perk up my anemones.

Good luck and I wish you success in your world of "correcting" what you thought/think is misinformation.

When you assume, you make and ?*$3 out of you and me.


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Last edited by Finsky; 07/14/2012 at 06:17 PM. Reason: more information
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Old 07/14/2012, 06:30 PM   #238
maxxII
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finsky View Post
Golly. I am glad you are around to identify misinformation.

Since I am misinformed according to you, I hesitate to share my knowledge and/or experiences with you or any of your "numberous?" devotes.

Hogwash, semantics, sick/weaked, is not my game, as I work in a different field than English Language Arts. I was talkiing about one and the same when I referred to "sick". An anemone that is not healthy.

Today I did my weekly anemone feeding of razor clam and silverside . I usually break up into small pieces any razor clam I have left after feeding half inch pieces to my anemones with plastic tongs. My female Tomato clown took one of those small bite sized pieces into her mouth and then spit it out.

I was wondering why she did not bring that back to her anemone to keep it safe and eat it later?

Could there be "any" truth to the possibility that a clownfish will feed its host anemone?

Good luck and I wish you success in your world of "correcting" what you thought/think is misinformation.

When you assume, you make and ?*$3 out of you and me.
WowÖ.

Iíve never claimed to know it all. In fact, just the opposite.
I donít have devoteesÖIf anything, the folks I mentioned previously are people I look up, certainly not the other way around.

The reason semantics are important in a discussion like this is because it prevents misunderstanding.

Misunderstanding and confusion about semantics in a discussion where drugs and antibiotics are being used to treat an animal in our care, should be avoided whenever possible.

Weakened is NOT the same thing as sick. There is a reason Iím pointing out the difference between the two.

Cloramfenicol is a broad spectrum antibiotic that can cause serious side effects in humans, it shouldnít used unnecessarily. If an anemone is sick with a bacterial infection, then its use or other antibiotics is indicated. If the anemone is weakened but not sick, use of antibiotics is not indicated and may cause more harm than good.


I have no idea why your clown did not bring the razor clam piece back to your anemoneÖmaybe she didnít like it and saw no need to try and defend it from other fish in the tank?

Could there be any possibility that clownfish will feed a host anemone? Sure. Itís doubtful however, as this behavior hasnít been documented in the wild and is seen only in an aquarium. If it were a natural ingrained behavior, wouldnít it be seen in the wild as well?

Iím not sure why youíre resorting to personal attacks in response to my posts. It does nothing to prove your point and makes you look like overly sensitive and uninformed. None of my posts were a personal attack towards you. Why you chose to take them that way is beyond me.

I was correcting what most definitely incorrect information. There is no argument regarding that. Iím not the only one who noticed it either.

My posts here are based on experience. I even linked to a thread documenting my experiences and results. So far, youíve posted a link to a blog that has incorrect information that doesnít bolster your case in any way. I can back up what Iím stating and have done so.

Based solely on what Iíve seen you post here on this thread, you donít need my help to make an @$$ out of yourself, youíre doing just fine on your own.

Iím done derailing this thread. If youíd like to carry on the discussion whether or not clowns actively feed their host anemones or whether or not adding clowns to a weakened or sick anemone is the best practice to get the anemone back to health, feel free to start a thread about it. Iíll be happy to join in and discuss it with you there. Further arguing here detracts from the thread as a whole and all the information contained in it.


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Old 07/15/2012, 11:27 AM   #239
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Apologies

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxxII View Post
Wow….

I’ve never claimed to know it all. In fact, just the opposite.
I don’t have devotees…If anything, the folks I mentioned previously are people I look up, certainly not the other way around.

The reason semantics are important in a discussion like this is because it prevents misunderstanding.

Misunderstanding and confusion about semantics in a discussion where drugs and antibiotics are being used to treat an animal in our care, should be avoided whenever possible.

Weakened is NOT the same thing as sick. There is a reason I’m pointing out the difference between the two.

Cloramfenicol is a broad spectrum antibiotic that can cause serious side effects in humans, it shouldn’t used unnecessarily. If an anemone is sick with a bacterial infection, then its use or other antibiotics is indicated. If the anemone is weakened but not sick, use of antibiotics is not indicated and may cause more harm than good.


I have no idea why your clown did not bring the razor clam piece back to your anemone…maybe she didn’t like it and saw no need to try and defend it from other fish in the tank?

Could there be any possibility that clownfish will feed a host anemone? Sure. It’s doubtful however, as this behavior hasn’t been documented in the wild and is seen only in an aquarium. If it were a natural ingrained behavior, wouldn’t it be seen in the wild as well?

I’m not sure why you’re resorting to personal attacks in response to my posts. It does nothing to prove your point and makes you look like overly sensitive and uninformed. None of my posts were a personal attack towards you. Why you chose to take them that way is beyond me.

I was correcting what most definitely incorrect information. There is no argument regarding that. I’m not the only one who noticed it either.

My posts here are based on experience. I even linked to a thread documenting my experiences and results. So far, you’ve posted a link to a blog that has incorrect information that doesn’t bolster your case in any way. I can back up what I’m stating and have done so.

Based solely on what I’ve seen you post here on this thread, you don’t need my help to make an @$$ out of yourself, you’re doing just fine on your own.

I’m done derailing this thread. If you’d like to carry on the discussion whether or not clowns actively feed their host anemones or whether or not adding clowns to a weakened or sick anemone is the best practice to get the anemone back to health, feel free to start a thread about it. I’ll be happy to join in and discuss it with you there. Further arguing here detracts from the thread as a whole and all the information contained in it.
You have my apology as sometimes it is difficult to communicate via the written word versus spoken word. Sometimes I write before thinking when excited about things i.e. all things aquarist. I am sure you are a decent person and I get the impression, an advanced aquarist. I do want to apologize again to you and this thread and hope you will forgive me.

I would like to add my reason for listing the liquid foods and vitamins is that I think this may be a route to go with a weakened anemone that is not up to taking solid foods. Of course, the aquarist would obviously want to keep an eye on water quality.

I do think that lighting, current, water quality, placement i.e. rock versus substrate, feeding, etc. all have a part in an anemones health.

For myself, I have found Heteractis magnifica to be the most difficult anemone to care for.

For my Stichodactyla gigantea, I prepared a tennis sized vertical hole in the middle of my live rock underneath the right 150 watt metal halide. At the bottom of the five inch hole was smooth live rock. The bottom of the hole went horizontally off to the left. I moved a green bubble tip from that place by using a frozen block of razor clam to losen it's grip. I then moved it to the left side of the tank in a crevice in the live rock above the two green and two red rose Bubble Tips(used to be one of each until the green and red split) that were also there. Almost instantly the Tomato clowns started nudging it gently and now it is doing much better than the right side.

This left a place for me to place a six inch Stichodactyla gigantea I aquired from Petco. I turned off the pumps and after acclimating guided the anemone down over the hole. It stuck rather quickly and at first was anchored half on the inner side of the hold and half of the bottom of the hole. I has since spread out to cover the entire width of the hold and has grown to about eight inches or more.

I have two 3,250 gph Hydor Mag 8's which are place high in the tank ends. This creates a circulation that is high at the surface and lessens gradually towards the bottom of the tank. Lighting is a 60" Marine Pro Lighting System with four 54 watt T-5's and two 150 watt double ended metal halides.

I do agree that it is possible that an anemone may not be up to hosting a clownfish and may not even be able to "anchor" itself to substrate and/or rock.

Addendum: My female Tomato clownfish did bring one of two Hikari Algae wafers into the larger red rose buble tip anemone?


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Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef - 250 lbs of live rock, Rena XP4, two Hydor Koralia 3250s, Aqua-Medic Tuboflotor multi 1000 skimmer - Two 60" Marineland Reef Capable LEDs - 8 1/2 years

Last edited by Finsky; 07/15/2012 at 11:46 AM. Reason: more information
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Old 07/15/2012, 12:49 PM   #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finsky View Post
You have my apology as sometimes it is difficult to communicate via the written word versus spoken word. Sometimes I write before thinking when excited about things i.e. all things aquarist. I am sure you are a decent person and I get the impression, an advanced aquarist. I do want to apologize again to you and this thread and hope you will forgive me.

I would like to add my reason for listing the liquid foods and vitamins is that I think this may be a route to go with a weakened anemone that is not up to taking solid foods. Of course, the aquarist would obviously want to keep an eye on water quality.

I do think that lighting, current, water quality, placement i.e. rock versus substrate, feeding, etc. all have a part in an anemones health.

For myself, I have found Heteractis magnifica to be the most difficult anemone to care for.

For my Stichodactyla gigantea, I prepared a tennis sized vertical hole in the middle of my live rock underneath the right 150 watt metal halide. At the bottom of the five inch hole was smooth live rock. The bottom of the hole went horizontally off to the left. I moved a green bubble tip from that place by using a frozen block of razor clam to losen it's grip. I then moved it to the left side of the tank in a crevice in the live rock above the two green and two red rose Bubble Tips(used to be one of each until the green and red split) that were also there. Almost instantly the Tomato clowns started nudging it gently and now it is doing much better than the right side.

This left a place for me to place a six inch Stichodactyla gigantea I aquired from Petco. I turned off the pumps and after acclimating guided the anemone down over the hole. It stuck rather quickly and at first was anchored half on the inner side of the hold and half of the bottom of the hole. I has since spread out to cover the entire width of the hold and has grown to about eight inches or more.

I have two 3,250 gph Hydor Mag 8's which are place high in the tank ends. This creates a circulation that is high at the surface and lessens gradually towards the bottom of the tank. Lighting is a 60" Marine Pro Lighting System with four 54 watt T-5's and two 150 watt double ended metal halides.

I do agree that it is possible that an anemone may not be up to hosting a clownfish and may not even be able to "anchor" itself to substrate and/or rock.

Addendum: My female Tomato clownfish did bring one of two Hikari Algae wafers into the larger red rose buble tip anemone?
Finsky,
Communicating via written word over the net can be interesting to say the least. Its very easy to misunderstand what a person meant when reading their posts. Over 80% of human communication is via non verbals such as tone, inflection, and body language.

Short version is no problem on my end, apology accepted.

You bring up some interesting points in this post.

Iíve never tried adding vitamins or liquid foods when trying to bring back a weakened anemone. What vitamins or liquid foods are you using or advocating? I honestly am not up to date on what vitamins or liquid foods are currently popular or available, so your input here would be greatly appreciated, (seriously).

I also agree completely that water quality and general conditions of the system the anemone is being kept in are all paramount to anemone health and well being.

Iíve only tried S. gigantea once. A local store that I have a good relationship with had one come in that started to go down hill and they asked me to try and rescue it with the understanding that if it survived, I would buy it. Sadly, it didnít.

IMO, (based on what Iíve read), S. gigantea is the most difficult anemone to keep. The fact that you obtained yours from Petco of all places and have had it for 6 months speaks volumes.

Iím also very intrigued by how you set up the place for the gigantea to attach.

Rather than derail this thread any further, could you please start a new thread and detail everything youíve done and pictures of your anemones and set up?

Iíd love to keep an S. gigantea some day but feel I need to do more research and would love to see what your doing.

Thanks,

Nick


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Old 07/16/2012, 10:38 PM   #241
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Here you go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxxII View Post
Finsky,
Communicating via written word over the net can be interesting to say the least. Its very easy to misunderstand what a person meant when reading their posts. Over 80% of human communication is via non verbals such as tone, inflection, and body language.

Short version is no problem on my end, apology accepted.

You bring up some interesting points in this post.

Iíve never tried adding vitamins or liquid foods when trying to bring back a weakened anemone. What vitamins or liquid foods are you using or advocating? I honestly am not up to date on what vitamins or liquid foods are currently popular or available, so your input here would be greatly appreciated, (seriously).

I also agree completely that water quality and general conditions of the system the anemone is being kept in are all paramount to anemone health and well being.

Iíve only tried S. gigantea once. A local store that I have a good relationship with had one come in that started to go down hill and they asked me to try and rescue it with the understanding that if it survived, I would buy it. Sadly, it didnít.

IMO, (based on what Iíve read), S. gigantea is the most difficult anemone to keep. The fact that you obtained yours from Petco of all places and have had it for 6 months speaks volumes.

Iím also very intrigued by how you set up the place for the gigantea to attach.

Rather than derail this thread any further, could you please start a new thread and detail everything youíve done and pictures of your anemones and set up?

Iíd love to keep an S. gigantea some day but feel I need to do more research and would love to see what your doing.

Thanks,

Nick
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...1#post20472231


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Old 07/16/2012, 10:39 PM   #242
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Addendum

I have to add one more fish, a male Bird Wrasse to go with my female.


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Last edited by Finsky; 07/16/2012 at 10:49 PM. Reason: copy
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Old 02/19/2015, 07:18 PM   #243
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This is very interesting


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