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Unread 03/19/2018, 11:36 AM   #1
Docdiggy
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0 nitrate and .1 phosphate

What's the best course of action here? Raise nitrates or lower phos? I have a jug of BRS gfo, but kinda nervous to use it.


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Unread 03/19/2018, 11:44 AM   #2
Dsekula
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Docdiggy View Post
What's the best course of action here? Raise nitrates or lower phos? I have a jug of BRS gfo, but kinda nervous to use it.
Depends on your goal. What is your normal phosphate export method?

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Unread 03/19/2018, 11:47 AM   #3
Tripod1404
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Imo both. Raise nitrate to around 2.5-3 ppm, and drop phosphate below ~0.03 ppm.


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Unread 03/19/2018, 11:47 AM   #4
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Sps are not really colorful and gha is getting bad on the sand. At the moment I do small wc and skim heavy. Some lps seem like they're not as happy too. My green slimer and montis are fine, but other sps are kinda brown.


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Unread 03/19/2018, 11:52 AM   #5
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I read an article that said it's a balancing act. If one raises the other may drop. I'm not sure how truthful this is. My tank is very, very full of corals and I'm wondering if they consume nitrate faster than phos. I've been reading about adding nitrates and I'm still not sure the best method.


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Unread 03/19/2018, 12:22 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Docdiggy View Post
I read an article that said it's a balancing act. If one raises the other may drop. I'm not sure how truthful this is. My tank is very, very full of corals and I'm wondering if they consume nitrate faster than phos. I've been reading about adding nitrates and I'm still not sure the best method.
If one component becomes limiting, raising one can cause the other to be taken up more (since it is no longer limited by the other).

Uptake is always higher for nitrate and than phosphate. A cell on average is 65% oxygen, 18% carbon, 9% hydrogen, 3% nitrogen, 1.5% calcium, and 1% phosphorus plus other elemnets (These numbers are a bit different for different types of cells but more or less conserved.) So to built a new cell, you need 3 times more nitrogen (which comes from nitrate or other nitrogenous sources) than phosphorus (which comes from phosphate). This is the reason why they limit each other. If you are low on nitrogen, you cant built new cells, and therefore there is no need to uptake phosphate, or vice versa. If you increase nitrogen, you are no longer limited by nitrogen and so phosphate is taken up to built new cells.

Bad color in SPS is generally linked to low nitrate, browning result from high phosphate. Bosth can also be dependent on light quality. Corals also grow slowly when phosphate is high.


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Unread 03/19/2018, 12:59 PM   #7
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So if I understand correctly, adjusting one will adjust the other?


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Unread 03/19/2018, 01:29 PM   #8
Tripod1404
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So if I understand correctly, adjusting one will adjust the other?
Only if one of them is limiting. Most of the time carbon is the limiting factor, so the uptake is not phosphorus or nitrogen dependent. It is why people dose carbon sources to increase the uptake of N and P. You basically need 6X more C than N and 18X more C and P anyways, it is much easier for C to become limiting.

I would not worry about N and P being dependent on each other. It is not something that you can have much control over. Just keep in mind that there is a certain relationship. Like if N is 0, rate of phosphate uptake would be very very low (it will be roughly 1/3 of nitrogen generation within the system).

If I were you, I would dose nitrate and slowly raise nitrate to 2-3 ppm (over a month or so). I would assume phosphate would drop some due to the N limitation being lifted. After that if P is still high, you can use GFO for a short period of time until it drops to desired value. Once you reach desired P value, remove GFO. After that periodically measure both N and P to make sure they stabilized.

In my case, I need to dose nitrate every 3rd day and phosphate is below 0.03 ppm without any GFO. I also feed 2 times a day.


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Unread 03/19/2018, 01:36 PM   #9
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What are you dosing for nitrate?


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Unread 03/19/2018, 01:45 PM   #10
Tripod1404
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I used to dose reagent grade potassium nitrate that I got from amazon, but recently I switched to brightwell aquatics neonitro (which I assume is a mixture KNO3 and NaNO3).


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Unread 03/19/2018, 04:38 PM   #11
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So I've been researching that product. I just keep slowly dosing this, testing until my target is hit and then watch and dose accordingly?


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Unread 03/19/2018, 05:03 PM   #12
Tripod1404
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Yeah you can increase it 0.5 ppm per week until you hit 2.5-3 ppm. Like raise it to 0.5 ppm first week and dose accordingly to keep it there, next week raise 1 ppm and dose accordingly to keep it there, and so on.

It is probably safe to raise it faster, but it might cause algae growth.


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Unread 03/19/2018, 05:14 PM   #13
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Thank you


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Unread 03/23/2018, 03:39 PM   #14
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Feed your fish more and use GFO to keep you PO4 from going any higher, it's fine where it's at now. Try using GAC and do larger or more frequent water changes. Discontinue any carbon dosing. If you're interested here's some links:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRIKW-9d2xI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R2BMEfQGjU

Phosphate increases Coral Growth
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...22098111004588

Phosphate deficiency
http://www.indiaenvironmentportal.or...enrichment.pdf
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...015.00103/full
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...601?via%3Dihub

Nitrate increases Zooxantheallae but reduces coral skeleton growth
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00942117

Excess labile carbon promotes pathogens
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28895945


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Unread 03/23/2018, 11:42 PM   #15
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I probably would try a bit of GFO at this point, and I'd consider reducing feeding. Adding more food might provide some missing nutrients, so it's possible that reducing or increasing the feeding might help, but I think statistically the odds favor reduced feeding if the tank isn't getting vodka, vinegar, or some similar organic carbon dosing.


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Unread 03/24/2018, 03:45 AM   #16
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How big is the tank? I would personally lower your feeding, I feed corals twice a week and fish daily, I do have a chaeto reactor that helps though. I personally don't like GFO because it's too risky in my opinion, but if you do use it, use the BRS calculator and use half of what they recommend and increase slowly every week-two weeks. I keep my phosphates around .02ppm, and don't test nitrates. I typically get away with 40% water changes weekly, but have been testing my tank to see how long it can go without a water change.


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