Not a typical doctor's waiting room... 450 gallon reef

[Typhon]

Impressive equipment list. The doctor's office must have some deep pockets..

[leoskee]

Definitely deep pockets. Thats a lot of high end equipment. Thousands of $

[jnarowe]

I use a Hammerhead and have two 2" and one 1.5" drain and that is more than enough. I can shut any of the drains individually with no adverse affect.

[swannking]

If you use the hammerhead as a return pump, I don't think the length of your overflow box is long enough to handle that kind of volume and may cause your tank to overflow. I have a 450g tank 78"X36"X36" and I have the overflow occupy the one side of the tank with a length of 36". I run a barracuda pump and the water level rises to about 1.5" above the bottom of the teeth.

[KingfishJohn]

The hammerhead is the closed loop pump, not the return. The return is a sequence dart throttled back to 1600-2000 gph.

What that group of doctors wanted is a solid reef system, with a minimum amount of headache and maximum return. Although costs could have been cut here and there, maintenance would increase and the overall project costs would go up. When I go with another skimmer that cannot handle a 450 gallon heavily stocked reef, I end up doing greater water changes. By going with top of the line equipment, maintenance to the tank decreases, and nothing will need to be upgraded.

John

[jnarowe]

swannking: Not sure about that. While my overflow box is about 94" long, it is only 6" x 6" and there is only about 3 inches of water in it, so it really depends on more variables.

[swannking]

Originally posted by jnarowe
swannking: Not sure about that. While my overflow box is about 94" long, it is only 6" x 6" and there is only about 3 inches of water in it, so it really depends on more variables.

It is the length of the overflow box that determines the volume of flow that it can handle ie. from the tank to the overflow. How fast the water inside the overflow box drain into the sump is determined by the size of the drain. Since yours is 94", there is no issues. If your length of the overflow is much less, let say 12", then the water in the tank can't get to the overflow box fast enough and the main tank water level will rise until it overflows.

[benf]

OK, so you are using the dart for a return....cause i was concerned with the small overflow for using a hammerhead, that is why i brought it up. I decided to run my Hammerhead as return and feed my chiller and refuge as well. My tank is much smaller than your build....72x27x24, but overflow box is ~60" with 3 2" drains.

[KingfishJohn]

My rule of thumb on tank/sump turnover is always 5 times the tank volume. This slow flow allows greater contact time with the skimmer, less bubbles and salt creep, and a smaller return pump. It also allows the sump to act as a settling chamber for detritus where it can be easily shop vacced out.

Since the bottom is PVC (and not glass) we elected to not have AGE cut the closed loop holes for us and do it ourselves. The tank stand is already in place and has LOTS of steel cross members and getting the tank and stand to match up would have been near impossible.

Another thing to mention is that when selecting equipment for this tank, we went with manufacturers that were known to be the best on the market.

Sequence offers a three year warranty and excellent customer support. I also stock Sequence in case the pump needs and immediate replacement.

Deltec has the best representative in the market in Doug and nothing cannot be handled quickly. I also have the same model Deltec in store in case a part needs to be robbed in hours.

Tunze's warehouse is located in Austin, they have the BEST powerheads on the market, and Roger Vitko is a first class retailer. Any problems can be taken care of without hassle and wasted time.

Coralife and Icecap have a distributor not 30 minutes from our store.

AquaFX is a brand I personally have been using for over 2 years. We have one of their units in store driving our water and Marianne (president) is ALWAYS willing to do what it takes to help you.

Finally we're using Tropic Marin salt as I use it in store, and on all maintenance accounts and the difference in salts is very evident. Tropic Marin's rep is also an incredibly helpful guy and I encourage anyone who goes to MACNA to meet with him.

[clekchau]

Originally posted by swannking
It is the length of the overflow box that determines the volume of flow that it can handle ie. from the tank to the overflow. How fast the water inside the overflow box drain into the sump is determined by the size of the drain. Since yours is 94", there is no issues. If your length of the overflow is much less, let say 12", then the water in the tank can't get to the overflow box fast enough and the main tank water level will rise until it overflows.

the width of the teeth in the overflow also plays a factor

[jnarowe]

Originally posted by swannking
It is the length of the overflow box that determines the volume of flow that it can handle ie. from the tank to the overflow. How fast the water inside the overflow box drain into the sump is determined by the size of the drain. Since yours is 94", there is no issues. If your length of the overflow is much less, let say 12", then the water in the tank can't get to the overflow box fast enough and the main tank water level will rise until it overflows.

true, but a 12" overlow for a large tank would be a poor design. Myself, I am a big proponent of coast-to-coast overflows.

Teeth spacing matters of course. Having a by-pass line on the output of the return pump is really the only economical way to ensure that you have the proper flow. It also helps in priming the main pump in certain situations. Just after the pump output, I have a "T" with the straight side returning to the display, and the T side having a valve and line going back to the sump. I can change the flow by adjusting this valve, and as systems age, it helps to have extra flow that can be brought into play to make of for growth inside the return lines.

I can change the flow though my overflow just by turning that valve. I prefer this method to using a valve to actually restrict the pump like so many people do. I don't like to put any more back pressure than I have to by design.

[Dudester]

Originally posted by jnarowe
Just after the pump output, I have a "T" with the straight side returning to the display, and the T side having a valve and line going back to the sump. I can change the flow by adjusting this valve, and as systems age, it helps to have extra flow that can be brought into play to make of for growth inside the return lines.

I can change the flow though my overflow just by turning that valve. I prefer this method to using a valve to actually restrict the pump like so many people do. I don't like to put any more back pressure than I have to by design.

That's a great idea, Jonathan. I guess you just pump the "T'd off" water back into the return section so that the sump doesn't necessarily receive extra flow?

And for those who are concerned about how much we are spending on the tank, keep in mind the following:
1. if you do it right the first time, very few if any upgrades and/or repairs are required and you actually save money
2. we require reliable equipment since the office will be closed on evenings, weekends and holidays
3. this tank will be a reflection of me and my colleagues, and we want it to look clean and professional
4. we want the kids in the waiting room to view a reef that's as natural as possible, not watching John pull out hair algae, and last but not least,
5. no one goes into this hobby to save money.

[swannking]

Originally posted by clekchau
the width of the teeth in the overflow also plays a factor

That's without saying.

[jnarowe]

Originally posted by Dudester
That's a great idea, Jonathan. I guess you just pump the "T'd off" water back into the return section so that the sump doesn't necessarily receive extra flow?

Not exactly. After hearing and reading about umpteen stories of micro-bubble problems, I installed a dual sump system with two 2" lines between and BVs.

This gives me a lot of flexibility while elimanating micro-bubbles from the display. I have an in-bound sump and an out-bound sump. The inbound sump has the inflow lines from the overflow as well as all my probes. The skimmer sits in the inbound sump but empties into the outbound sump. In teh out-bound sump I have heaters and rubble, as well as the effluent from my Ca and Kalk reactors.

The nice thing about dual sumps is taht I can take one offline any time I want, drain it, clean it, etc. and still have a working system. In fact I keep the water volume lower than half so that either one can absorb the water from the other or from the skimmer...I have had a lot of floods and this type of system helps me avoid that!

Here is a shot of the outbound sump:



And a shot of the sumps next to each other.



For your application, I don't think you could really do this, but the element of having the by-pass line is still valid for any sump situation. You just need to make sure it doesn't add bubbles to the display. If you need more pics let me know. Click on the red house to see various tank room shots.

[Dudester]

Thanks for the clarification, Jonathan (and I've clicked your red house many times before ).

I went to the office today to check on the construction progress. Here's where we are as of today.

This is the view when one enters the waiting room. Once the tank is in place, cabinets will be built down to the floor and up to the ceiling around the entire perimeter of the system.


Here's the lockable door to the tank equipment room.


This is the stand. It's powder coated and strong as, well, you know.


This will give you a better idea of just how thick the metal is on this stand. That oughta hold'er.


Inside the equipment room is a janitor's floor drain with a water source/faucet above it (not pictured but partially seen in the first image).


The walls of the equipment room are painted with a gloss paint that will deter corrosion. To assist with temperature control, the equipment room has its own HVAC unit.


And finally, here's the view from the tank room, looking into the waiting room.

[jnarowe]

very cool indeed. Having that tank room is a real plus.

[clekchau]

damn that stand looks beefy

[Bax]

Man what is that? 4" square tube??? Saweeet!!!

Mike, just stumbled onto this thread, all I can say is ... Awesome!!!

I wish I had gone bigger in my office .... after all, office furniture is a business expense!!!

[Dudester]

4" indeed! And you can see in the photos that the stand is actually bolted down to transversely-oriented joists beneath the floor. We don't have many earthquakes here in Austin, but if we did, I think this would weather the storm.

Actually, John and Brian, take a good look at the 1st and 3rd photos -- the metal brackets and bolts occupy some space inside the stand. Is this going to be a problem with the sump resting on the bottom platform? I'm not sure, since I don't know the exact sump dimensions.

Mike

[scaryperson27]

To think, i might actually be moving to austin in a couple years. What do you think of it over there?

[EnFuego]

Originally posted by scaryperson27
To think, i might actually be moving to austin in a couple years. What do you think of it over there?

I just made the move from Florida to Austin, and I love it here. I moved for grad school, but I have already signed with a company to work here when I finish.

And to not stray completely off topic, Mike, I saw your sump at the shop the other day, and that thing is massive. This tank is moving along quickly...can't wait to see the tank in place.

--
Mark

[KingfishJohn]

Since Brian saw the stand, I'll assume he took those bolts into consideration. I literally cannot WAIT to start of this project and look forward to showing all of you the progress.

It's funny, before every big tank I've ever been a part of, time draws near and I start thinking "oh god and what if". With this project, I've had very small what if's and it EXCITES me.

Also what is everyone's favorite acanthurus tangs? My personal choice would be an achilles (and I have a very good source for net caught hawaiin fish) but would like to hear others thoughts.

John

[KingfishJohn]

And on Austin,

I went to school here from Dallas and don't see myself ever leaving. The city's atmosphere is great (even if you do have to deal with the occasional hippie ) and the weather and scenery are great.

[i2ik]

This is a very interesting thread! Love the idea of having a tank in a waiting room! I have seen a couple of dentist waiting room with a tank in, but nothing as big as a 450G tank!

My favorite acanthurus tang is a very hard choice, debating between the powder blue tang and the achilles tang. I am wondering in a size of your tank, i guess having those 2 would not be an impossible option.

The Clown Tang would also be in my top 3 favorites tang.

If i would have to choose one, i guess i will also go for the achilles tang or the achilles gold rym hybrid one if you can put a hand on one.

Keep us posted!

[reefworldaq]

Hai Thedude, Beware with your salt because based on my exp the cal and kh was low, I think you use the MARINE ENVIRONMENT SEA SALT. in there web there are comparation about salt including TM.