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Unread 08/02/2011, 03:53 PM   #51
tylernt
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Up to 82°F, I don't worry about it. Your CUC's metabolisms may run a bit faster but I don't think it's a big deal.


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Tylernt's Dymax IQ3 2g pico http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=276637
Past tanks: 2.5g AGA Mini-bow, 10g AGA

Current Tank Info: Dymax IQ3, 2g pico
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Unread 08/03/2011, 09:55 PM   #52
DenverBC29
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Update:

The coralife mini aqua light runs way too hot! Even with it elevated 1.5" off the glass and modified to accommodate a fan, the tank runs at about 83 degrees. Since the depth is less than 8" for this tank, I will be building an led light out of 5050 smc leds from superbrightleds.com. They are not the cree lights everyone is using, but with 6 whites and 8 blues, it wil be an impressive output. when I get started, I'll post a link to the new thread detailing the build. If you want to build your own, you can get it done for $15 to $30 depending on whether or not you have any of the parts already laying around.


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Current Tanks: Biocube 29 reef and AIO DIY 2.5G LED powered office Pico reef
Past Tanks: 10G Reef and 5G reef Bowl w/custom LED fixture and various freshwater tanks.

Freshwater 1999 to 2003. Saltwater 2003 to present.

My LED build - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2053315
My 2.5g tank build - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2048992
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Unread 08/03/2011, 09:57 PM   #53
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I ordered parts tonight, so I'll be getting started next week.


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Current Tanks: Biocube 29 reef and AIO DIY 2.5G LED powered office Pico reef
Past Tanks: 10G Reef and 5G reef Bowl w/custom LED fixture and various freshwater tanks.

Freshwater 1999 to 2003. Saltwater 2003 to present.

My LED build - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2053315
My 2.5g tank build - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2048992
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Unread 08/04/2011, 10:56 AM   #54
Tin_Whistler
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This is a really sweet looking build. I’m actually in the process of planning something to sit at my desk as well.

Definitely stealing your Drip Tray/filter floss design, though I’m not sure how I’ll incorporate that into a triangular corner tank… I’ll probably be watching your LED build as well since I know the cree’s would be overkill for the 7 gallon I’m looking at building.


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Unread 08/04/2011, 11:12 AM   #55
tylernt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin_Whistler View Post
I’ll probably be watching your LED build as well since I know the cree’s would be overkill for the 7 gallon I’m looking at building.
I dunno, I put 3 Crees on my 2g, and I don't think they're overkill. I used a dimming BuckPuck but even at full power (1000mA) they don't seem overwhelming to my eyes at all. No corals yet though, so my opinion might change if I start burning mushrooms.

One downside to using only a few LEDs is colored shadows -- everything in my tank gets a yellow and a blue shadow on opposite sides even though I spaced the white and Royal Blue stars as close as I could. Using a whole bunch of SMT LEDs (or a diffuser) should help with that.

And speaking of using a bunch of SMT LEDs, DenverBC29 how are you going to drive yours?


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Tylernt's Dymax IQ3 2g pico http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=276637
Past tanks: 2.5g AGA Mini-bow, 10g AGA

Current Tank Info: Dymax IQ3, 2g pico
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Unread 08/04/2011, 12:02 PM   #56
DenverBC29
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@ Tin - You may have to make a rectangular drip plate with a 45 degree front edge? When you get started I'd be more than happy to throw some ideas your way.

@ Tyler - I couldn't agree with you more about spreading out the LEDs because of the odd shadows. I plan on using 6-8 whites and 8 blues. Each one puts out 6000 MCD and I believe the fixture will put out about 270 lumens @ 120 degrees. I plan on powering them with a 5v 1000ma cell phone regulated power supply and 48 100 ohm 1/4w resistors. Each LED has 3 anodes and 3 diodes. I built one of these for a 5 gallon bowl and used 4 white and 4 blue and it was enough light to build coraline and grow mushrooms. I figure that 8/8 white/blue in a 2.5 may be enough for me to play with some SPS. I know that the resistor route isn't ideal, but it has worked well for me in the past and it is CHEAP.

Thoughts/Ideas?


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Current Tanks: Biocube 29 reef and AIO DIY 2.5G LED powered office Pico reef
Past Tanks: 10G Reef and 5G reef Bowl w/custom LED fixture and various freshwater tanks.

Freshwater 1999 to 2003. Saltwater 2003 to present.

My LED build - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2053315
My 2.5g tank build - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2048992
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Unread 08/04/2011, 12:23 PM   #57
tylernt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverBC29 View Post
I know that the resistor route isn't ideal, but it has worked well for me in the past and it is CHEAP.

Thoughts/Ideas?
Resistors are fairly impractical for 1000mA power LEDs, but for the little guys they seem like a reasonable (and CHEAP ) approach to me if you don't mind soldering 96 extra connections.

Resistors will add more heat than say, a PWM driver, but I'm sure you'll account for that in your thermal design.


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Tylernt's Dymax IQ3 2g pico http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=276637
Past tanks: 2.5g AGA Mini-bow, 10g AGA

Current Tank Info: Dymax IQ3, 2g pico
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Unread 08/04/2011, 12:35 PM   #58
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Yeah, my other fixture uses 1/8w resistors and I just mounted a small fan blowing on them. I could use 1/8w resistors again, but am using 1/4w because they will run cooler. I'm deciding between thermal pasting them to a heatsink or use the same tactic as before with the fan.

Each LED only gets 20ma though each circuit, so a total of 60ma for each LED. These things are bright though! 1 will blind you for a few minutes if you look directly into it. I've also noticed that a lot of the nano and pico fixtures use these kind of LEDS like - the eco pico:
http://www.ecoxotic.com/led-aquarium...pico-reef.html

I'll use almost 3 times as many LEDs as that fixture, so I'm confident that the light output will suffice.


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Current Tanks: Biocube 29 reef and AIO DIY 2.5G LED powered office Pico reef
Past Tanks: 10G Reef and 5G reef Bowl w/custom LED fixture and various freshwater tanks.

Freshwater 1999 to 2003. Saltwater 2003 to present.

My LED build - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2053315
My 2.5g tank build - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2048992
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Unread 08/04/2011, 12:52 PM   #59
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Here is what I have planned as far as LED placement on a 7x3 inch fixture.



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Current Tanks: Biocube 29 reef and AIO DIY 2.5G LED powered office Pico reef
Past Tanks: 10G Reef and 5G reef Bowl w/custom LED fixture and various freshwater tanks.

Freshwater 1999 to 2003. Saltwater 2003 to present.

My LED build - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2053315
My 2.5g tank build - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2048992
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Unread 08/04/2011, 01:09 PM   #60
tylernt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverBC29 View Post
I'll use almost 3 times as many LEDs as that fixture, so I'm confident that the light output will suffice.
As for that Ecopico, I don't believe they are using 20mA LEDs. I believe each strip has three 1W LEDs, so about 9W total for the 3-strip reef edition?

My 3xCree fixture, for comparison, should be about 11W.

As another data point, IQ3 owners have placed 3 Robot LED fixtures (each fixture has 28 5mm LEDs @ 18.5mA/ea) over their tanks for acceptable results (dunno if SPS was tried with this setup). My math skills are admittedly poor but I think this adds up to about 5.5W total. (Also, just FYI, the Robot LEDs also fade within 6 months [I believe they are 15mA spec LEDs being overdriven]. So I don't recommend overdriving your LEDs.)

So it seems like you might want to shoot for a minimum of 5W total LED output, or double that for SPS? Just throwing some numbers out there, I don't claim to be an expert.

Then there are other variables like lumens per watt and the focus angle that might make your LEDs more or less intense than the 5mm low-domes used in the Robot fixture...


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Tylernt's Dymax IQ3 2g pico http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=276637
Past tanks: 2.5g AGA Mini-bow, 10g AGA

Current Tank Info: Dymax IQ3, 2g pico

Last edited by tylernt; 08/04/2011 at 01:33 PM.
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Unread 08/04/2011, 01:34 PM   #61
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http://www.ecoxotic.com/catalog/prod...105/image/403/

I see the 15w rating, but those LEDs look just like the ones I'm using, not the Cree or Luxeon stars that consume 1w-5w each. I'm not sure how they are pumping 5w through 3 SMD LEDS?

I used a lumen calculator: http://led.linear1.org/lumen.wiz

And it seems that 8 of my white LEDS at 6000 MCD each at 120 degree angle, would put out 150 lumens, which is about equal to 1.5 Cree LEDs, correct? I think they put out 100 Lumens. ?? Add in 8 blues at the same figures and I end up with 300 Lumens total.

I've heard that the watt per gallon rules are out the window in regards to LEDS. It's all about Lumens and PAR.

Anyone know how many lumens a 75w or 150w metal halide puts out?

Here is a great article on lighting:
http://www.americanaquariumproducts...._Lighting.html


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Current Tanks: Biocube 29 reef and AIO DIY 2.5G LED powered office Pico reef
Past Tanks: 10G Reef and 5G reef Bowl w/custom LED fixture and various freshwater tanks.

Freshwater 1999 to 2003. Saltwater 2003 to present.

My LED build - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2053315
My 2.5g tank build - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2048992
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Unread 08/04/2011, 01:38 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverBC29 View Post
http://www.ecoxotic.com/catalog/prod...105/image/403/

I see the 15w rating, but those LEDs look just like the ones I'm using, not the Cree or Luxeon stars that consume 1w-5w each. I'm not sure how they are pumping 5w through 3 SMD LEDS?
When you remove the Diode from the star it looks just like that. I had a DIY Par38 bulb that we had to pull all the diodes off the stars and solder them directly to the board in order to get it to fit within the bulb.


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Unread 08/04/2011, 01:48 PM   #63
DenverBC29
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But SkullV - why do the LEDS seem to have 6 contacts, 3 on each side? The Cree LEDS have one contact on each side don't they? They also need to be mounted to a large piece of aluminum for cooling, which I don't see. The fixture looks too small to cool 3 Cree style/power LEDS?

???

=) I'm perplexed and can't seem to find any details anywhere on what type of LEDS they are using.


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Current Tanks: Biocube 29 reef and AIO DIY 2.5G LED powered office Pico reef
Past Tanks: 10G Reef and 5G reef Bowl w/custom LED fixture and various freshwater tanks.

Freshwater 1999 to 2003. Saltwater 2003 to present.

My LED build - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2053315
My 2.5g tank build - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2048992
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Unread 08/04/2011, 01:56 PM   #64
tylernt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverBC29 View Post
I see the 15w rating,
I believe 6 of those watts is for the powerhead, leaving 9w for the LEDs.

Quote:
but those LEDs look just like the ones I'm using, not the Cree or Luxeon stars that consume 1w-5w each. I'm not sure how they are pumping 5w through 3 SMD LEDS?
The power LEDs you see on stars don't actually come on stars, the stars are an aftermarket thing to make it easier for hobbyists to solder them. As they come from the Cree factory, they're little surface-mount chips about 3.45mm square (as shown on the Cree datasheets).

Quote:
150 lumens, which is about equal to 1.5 Cree LEDs, correct? I think they put out 100 Lumens.
Cree XP-G is 367 lumens at 1A. My fixture uses two RB XR-E and one CW XM-L, so I should be somewhere north of 800 lumens (I can't find exact data for XM-L @ 1A, since the XM-L is usually driven at 3A, so this is a stab in the "dark" based on the XM-L's lumens per watt).

As for that lumens calculator, again, I'm no expert, but it doesn't make sense that 3.4W of SMT LEDs can compete with 9 to 11W of power LEDs?


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Tylernt's Dymax IQ3 2g pico http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=276637
Past tanks: 2.5g AGA Mini-bow, 10g AGA

Current Tank Info: Dymax IQ3, 2g pico
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Unread 08/04/2011, 01:58 PM   #65
tylernt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverBC29 View Post
They also need to be mounted to a large piece of aluminum for cooling, which I don't see.
The arm itself is made of aluminum and I assume it's thermally coupled for use as a large area heat sink.


Quote:
The fixture looks too small to cool 3 Cree style/power LEDS?
Crees are 3.6W (1A) to 5.4W (1.5A), the Ecoxotic are 1W (350mA) each, so should run much cooler.


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Tylernt's Dymax IQ3 2g pico http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=276637
Past tanks: 2.5g AGA Mini-bow, 10g AGA

Current Tank Info: Dymax IQ3, 2g pico
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Unread 08/04/2011, 02:12 PM   #66
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I'm seeing the XPG's at 139 Lumens and the rest of the Cree whites at 100 and 81 lumens.
http://www.superbrightleds.com/cat/c...,Cree,48,1267:

?

Also, If those are High Power LEDS on the Ecopico, how are they cooled? I don't see a heat sink or fans? I'm convinced they are some sort of SMD or SMT LED because I see 6 leads, not 2.


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Current Tanks: Biocube 29 reef and AIO DIY 2.5G LED powered office Pico reef
Past Tanks: 10G Reef and 5G reef Bowl w/custom LED fixture and various freshwater tanks.

Freshwater 1999 to 2003. Saltwater 2003 to present.

My LED build - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2053315
My 2.5g tank build - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2048992
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Unread 08/04/2011, 02:16 PM   #67
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And it looks like they are using standard power supplies and some sort of circuitry in-line with the LEDS. Wouldn't high power LEDS require drivers, larger power supplies, etc???

Hmm...

=)

Thanks for the debate!


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Current Tanks: Biocube 29 reef and AIO DIY 2.5G LED powered office Pico reef
Past Tanks: 10G Reef and 5G reef Bowl w/custom LED fixture and various freshwater tanks.

Freshwater 1999 to 2003. Saltwater 2003 to present.

My LED build - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2053315
My 2.5g tank build - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2048992
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Unread 08/04/2011, 02:22 PM   #68
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Read this thread:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2030574

If those are High Power LEDS, wouldn't the output be the same or more than a par38 bulb since there are 9 LEDS on the fixture? The author of that thread said the Par38 was bleaching his corals, and this light is not as bright. Maybe running at 350ma is the difference, but I'm not convinced they are Cree style LEDS.

And if the fixture is the heatsink, how can you just slip in 2 more strips and expect it to transfer heat without thermal paste or something?

=)


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Current Tanks: Biocube 29 reef and AIO DIY 2.5G LED powered office Pico reef
Past Tanks: 10G Reef and 5G reef Bowl w/custom LED fixture and various freshwater tanks.

Freshwater 1999 to 2003. Saltwater 2003 to present.

My LED build - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2053315
My 2.5g tank build - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2048992
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Unread 08/04/2011, 02:24 PM   #69
tylernt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverBC29 View Post
I'm seeing the XPG's at 139 Lumens and the rest of the Cree whites at 100 and 81 lumens.
http://www.superbrightleds.com/cat/c...,Cree,48,1267:
Those Crees are only being driven at 1W. They are underdriving and wasting a large amount of capability of those emitters, which can handle 5.4W.

Quote:
Also, If those are High Power LEDS on the Ecopico, how are they cooled? I don't see a heat sink or fans? I'm convinced they are some sort of SMD or SMT LED because I see 6 leads, not 2.
They're probably Chinese power LED emitters, not Crees, and I have no idea how the Chinese package their emitters. Possibly with 6 leads.

And at only 1W each, they don't require a lot of cooling. That aluminum arm with passive cooling does the job (admittedly, I think they're pushing the limit with the 3-strip reef edition).

Quote:
And it looks like they are using standard power supplies and some sort of circuitry in-line with the LEDS. Wouldn't high power LEDS require drivers, larger power supplies, etc???
Nope, my 1,000mA BuckPuck driver is like .75"x.75"x.5" and that's with a case and potting, the electronics themselves are miniscule (I have a single AAA cell flashlight that has a round driver PCB the same diameter as an AAA battery). They're also >95% efficient and if you use a 12V power supply, you can wire your LEDs in series to keep current requirements low. With a low current, your supply can be quite small.


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Tylernt's Dymax IQ3 2g pico http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=276637
Past tanks: 2.5g AGA Mini-bow, 10g AGA

Current Tank Info: Dymax IQ3, 2g pico
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Unread 08/04/2011, 02:26 PM   #70
tylernt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverBC29 View Post
Maybe running at 350ma is the difference, but
^^ This. You can drive a Cree at .01W for a very dim 1 lumen moonlight if you want. It's a silly thing to do but the current has everything to do with how bright an LED shines.


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Tylernt's Dymax IQ3 2g pico http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=276637
Past tanks: 2.5g AGA Mini-bow, 10g AGA

Current Tank Info: Dymax IQ3, 2g pico
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Unread 08/04/2011, 02:38 PM   #71
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Still not buyin' it Tyler! LOL If you find out what kind of LEDS they use, please share. I think they are similar to the ones I have. Small, square (not round), 6 leads (not 2), and no need for cooling.

=)


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Current Tanks: Biocube 29 reef and AIO DIY 2.5G LED powered office Pico reef
Past Tanks: 10G Reef and 5G reef Bowl w/custom LED fixture and various freshwater tanks.

Freshwater 1999 to 2003. Saltwater 2003 to present.

My LED build - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2053315
My 2.5g tank build - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2048992
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Unread 08/04/2011, 02:51 PM   #72
tylernt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverBC29 View Post
Still not buyin' it Tyler!
Fair enough.

Ok, if you go here:

http://www.ecoxotic.com/aquarium-led...arm-light.html

and click on where it says "Specs", you can see: "Total watts: 3 watts". So, each strip is 3W, 3 LEDs on each strip means 1W per LED. (The Reef Edition has 3 strips, for 9 LEDs, for 9W total output.)

If your SMT LEDs can run at 350mA, they are 1W LEDs, and will be as bright as the Ecoxotic.

If your LEDs run at 20mA, I maintain there is no way they can possibly be as bright as a 1W LED driven at 350mA unless they are somehow 17.5 times as efficient. If they are 17.5 times as efficient, Cree is going to want to talk to you about a seven-figure-salary job.


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Tylernt's Dymax IQ3 2g pico http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=276637
Past tanks: 2.5g AGA Mini-bow, 10g AGA

Current Tank Info: Dymax IQ3, 2g pico
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Unread 08/04/2011, 02:57 PM   #73
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Yeah, I understand what you're getting at, I just don't buy their specs (or lack there of). All they quote is wattage and K. Even on their website - http://www.ecoxotic.com/led-arm-light.html, they say that it only consumes 9watts on the environment tab, then on the specs tab, they say 3watts. Not only do we not know what they are using, I don't think they know what they are using.

If my 300 lumen fixture won't be enough, i'm reconsidering the build.

Hmmm...


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Current Tanks: Biocube 29 reef and AIO DIY 2.5G LED powered office Pico reef
Past Tanks: 10G Reef and 5G reef Bowl w/custom LED fixture and various freshwater tanks.

Freshwater 1999 to 2003. Saltwater 2003 to present.

My LED build - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2053315
My 2.5g tank build - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2048992
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Unread 08/04/2011, 03:13 PM   #74
tylernt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverBC29 View Post
If my 300 lumen fixture won't be enough, i'm reconsidering the build.
Yeah, here's where my knowledge stops. Lumens are a poor measure of coral/zoox photosynthesis, we should be talking PAR -- but LEDs aren't rated for PAR, so, who knows? All I can say is, successful pico reef LED setups have been done with 5.5W (three Robots) and 9W (Ecoxotic) fixtures. Beyond that you're in uncharted territory. Feel free to build your 3.5W fixture as intended and see how the corals do, if nothing else you'll help the reefing community out with another data point.


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Tylernt's Dymax IQ3 2g pico http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=276637
Past tanks: 2.5g AGA Mini-bow, 10g AGA

Current Tank Info: Dymax IQ3, 2g pico
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Unread 08/04/2011, 03:57 PM   #75
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I'll build it, let's see if they come...

I had decent success with a 5 gallon bowl (10 inches deep) with 4/4 white/blue, so doubling the light with half the size may work out well. If so, everyone will be building or paying me to build one. LOL


__________________
Current Tanks: Biocube 29 reef and AIO DIY 2.5G LED powered office Pico reef
Past Tanks: 10G Reef and 5G reef Bowl w/custom LED fixture and various freshwater tanks.

Freshwater 1999 to 2003. Saltwater 2003 to present.

My LED build - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2053315
My 2.5g tank build - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2048992
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