The angel thread to end all angel threads: all owners of angelfish in reefs respond!! - Page 2

LobsterOfJustice · 06/27/2009, 10:08 PM

All data up to this point entered.

Some percents so far:

Blueface - 75%
Flame - 84%
Coral Beauty - 86%
Regal - 70% (a lot of notes on this one though)
Majestic - 71%
Potter's - 82%

Not enough data on other species yet.

synofreak · 06/28/2009, 05:04 AM

1) Flame Angel, 1.5yrs, LPS,softies,Nems,few SPS, clam
2) 95% reef safe
3) picked on open brain, moved brain to other tank

LobsterOfJustice · 06/30/2009, 07:45 AM

bump

michael_cb_125 · 06/30/2009, 08:10 AM

I have ket the following Angels in my reef tanks with the following results:

Flame Angel: I kept this fish for over a year in two different reef tanks. First was my 240 gallon. This tank has SPS, Clams, Zoanthus, and LPS. The fish never touched a single coral or clam. Then I moved her over to my Elos 70 (55 gallons). In this tank I had SPS and LPS also. Again she never touched anything.

Potters Angel: I obtained this fish at the same time as the Flame. He was in the same tanks with the same corals. Again this fish never touched a single coral or clam.

Majestic Angel: I had this fish for several months before I took the 240 gallon reef down. She was as safe with corals as my flame and potters. I never saw her touch a single coral or clam. The only think that she ever picked at were the barnacles and mussels that were in the rock work.

Regal Angel: I had this fish for over a year and a half. She was in the 240 and the Elos 70. This was the most "reef safe" fish that I have ever had. Ive had clown fish that were more abusive to corals than this fish was.

Blue Face: Ive kept this Juvenile 1.5" fish in an Elos Mini for several months. She is in the tank with LPS and Zoanthus. The only coral that she has ever taken a likin' to was an aussie elegance coral, which she ate.

Bellus: No issues.

IMO the key to keeping angels off of corals, is to feed often and keep them preoccupied. I feed my tank 4-7 times per day. In my tanks with angels I feed on the higher end of the scale. These fish feed almost constantly in the wild, and when we bring them into our tanks, they forage just as they do in the wild. If you look at Centropyge angels, they constantly nip at the substrate/rockworks/anything in their path. It should be expected that these fish may nip at corals. But typically the nipping is only enough to irritate the coral, not kill it. I have noticed that many times centropyge angels will nip at a coral, move on past, and come back several minutes later to consume the mucous that the coral secreted in response to the nipping. They dont typically eat the coral flesh, just the secretions.

Also, if you keep the fish "entertained" they are less likely to pick at corals. I have seen some tanks with large angels that look restless, and as such they pick at corals. I do not believe that this is the fish desiring to eat the coral, as much as it is the fish just nipping out of "boredom". I know I am using human terminology for fish, but I think it works.
IMO the best way to preoccupy fish is by adding other similar fish. For example, multiple angels.

These are just my observations, I may be totally incorrect. But frequent feedings, and preoccupied fish has worked for me.

~Michael

zooty · 06/30/2009, 08:27 AM

1. Flame Angel w/SPS, LPS, Softies & Zoas; 2. Reef Safe 3. Nothing - 3 years

LPS = Favia, Wells, Euphyllas
SPS = Acropora, millipora, motipora, pocillipora, digitata
Softies = Leather, Kenya Tree, Mushrooms, zoanthids, gsp, Xenia
Gorgonia
Clam = Crocea (3") the clam didn't live long but I don't think the flame bothered it

1. Potter's Angel w/SPS, LPS, Softies & Zoas; 2. Mostly Reef Safe (See below) 3. Nothing - 1 year

LPS = Favia, Wells, Euphyllas
SPS = montipora
Softies = Leather, Kenya Tree, Mushrooms, zoanthids, gsp, Xenia
Gorgonia
-This fish was in a tank with a Cherub who nipped zoas and the gorgonia, I never saw the Potter do this and still blame the Cherub. :-)

1. Cherub Angel w/SPS, LPS, Softies & Zoas; 2. Mostly Reef Safe (See below) 3. Zoas, Gorg - 1 year

LPS = Favia, Wells, Euphyllas
SPS = montipora
Softies = Leather, Kenya Tree, Mushrooms, zoanthids, gsp, Xenia
Gorgonia
-This fish was in a tank with a Potter and I'm 99% sure it was the Cherub who nipped zoas and the gorgonia, I never saw the Potter do this and still blame the Cherub. :-)

jmann · 06/30/2009, 09:11 AM

I have a coral beauty and a flame and have no issues in a 240 gal. reef, sps and lps. I agree with previous statements about feeding, if your system allows for good feeding of the fish, I doubt there well be any problems. If on the other hand you feed sparingly the fish are going to start looking for food, who can blame them? My angels stop and nip a coral now and then but do no damage.

nreefer · 06/30/2009, 09:33 AM

All the following in a LPS/Softie/Zoas tank with some Monti Caps and Digi's
Queen - perfect - 3 years
Emperor - perfect - 4 years
Flame - perfect - 4 years
French - perfect - 3 years

eskymick · 06/30/2009, 10:54 AM

Majestic ... in my reef for 16 months. Completely safe with all SPS and with my only LPS coral (torch), too.

African Flame Back (pair) ... in my reef for 18 months. Completely safe with all SPS and with my only LPS coral (torch), too.

OceanDweller · 06/30/2009, 03:04 PM

Coral beauty 1 year flame angel 5 years both reef safe.

Hongt713 · 06/30/2009, 03:31 PM

i had a juv blue face angel, i can say he is NOT reef safe. i had him for 3months he ate up $500.00+ worth of corals from sps to hammers frogsspawns zoas scolys and even killed my clam

TTU_Reefer · 06/30/2009, 04:12 PM

Elibi angel 3.5", 90% reef safe for a year

Tank is 80% SPS(He never touches) 10% GSP, 10% zoas and button polyps.

She picks the rocks and some times tastes a coral or two but I have never lost a coral bc of her.

However my turbo snails are NOT frag rack safe haha my frags end up on the sand every morning

matt01 · 07/04/2009, 11:50 PM

Regal - 3yrs safe with SPS
Majestic - 2yrs safe with SPS
Personifer - 1yr safe with SPS

steelersfan · 07/05/2009, 07:22 AM

Flame in a 90 gallon tank- I have had him for two years, and he has not been reef safe. He loves clams and LPS (Acans, plates, & Frogspawn).

jadeguppy · 07/05/2009, 09:41 AM

bi-color- my mixed tank 9 months, in softie tank prior for 1+ years- reef-safe

coral beauty- same as above

I received both fish from another reefer when he tore down his tank. He never had a problem with them in his reef tank.

jdhuyvetter · 07/05/2009, 03:07 PM

Flame Angel absolutely no problems for over a year. SPS, LPS and softies. One day he disappeared and never seen from again.

Flameback, I've had two over the years with no problems.

Goldflake, fine with SPS, LPS and softies for about 6 months. Then one day he decided he liked favias and montiporas. Moved him into a softie tank. No problem for a year and then one day he decided he like zoas. Seems to only go after the small expensive frags. So far he has left the cheap colonies alone.

LobsterOfJustice · 07/13/2009, 09:50 AM

bump

Kahuna Tuna · 07/13/2009, 10:18 AM

Here are my experiences with angels and corals.

Passer- 4 years safe with polyps, shrooms.

Halfblack (dwarf)- 3 years safe with polyps, shrooms.

Asfur- 3+ years safe with leathers, shrooms, polyps. Devoured a frag of frogspawn in minutes.

Genicanthus (Blackspot pair)- 1+ year safe with leathers, shrooms, polyps.

Coral Beauty- 2 years safe with leathers, shrooms, polyps.

Flagfin- 2 years safe with SPS.

Blueface- 1 1/2 years safe with SPS.

Majestic- 1 1/2 years safe with SPS, polyps.

Back in the day all of my tanks were FO so a lot of my experience with angels has not included keeping them with corals. Of the angels I have kept in the last 20 years or so only the asfur ate a coral (LPS) and that fish never touched anything else. No other angel I have kept in a reef has so much as nipped anything. Maybe I have just been lucky but my experiences with angels and corals has been very positive. I do keep my fish well fed and my systems always provide lots of grazing opportunities.

jasonrp104 · 07/13/2009, 10:48 AM

Coral Beauty 1 year: Has touched nothing
Flame 7 months: Also touched nothing but picks at the rocks alot more than the CB

My tank has Zoos, shrooms, LPS, glove polyps.

el aguila · 07/13/2009, 06:19 PM

Flame for over 2 years in a 55G with SPS, clam, LPS, and xenia with no nipping ever observed.

Goodwood · 07/13/2009, 10:38 PM

Regal 5 years: SPS safe only.

Centropyge: Tried most of the common ones with SPS. They all seems to start nipping after 6 months to a year. The nipping was harmless. I just like my PE.

LobsterOfJustice · 07/14/2009, 12:53 PM

all data up to here entered. i will post the spreadsheet so far tonight.

lowincwrx · 07/14/2009, 01:32 PM

Cherub Pygmy (c. argi) - 1yr in my 29g - reef safe* LPS, SPS, Zoas and Clam

Lps- chalices, favias, dendros, wellsophylia, frogspawn, bubble, duncans, acans, micromussa, cyphastrea, candy canes
Sps- montis, digis, acros
clam- crocea

*a nip every now and then when feeding the tank but mostly to get the food, never caused any damage to any coral.

RichK · 07/14/2009, 04:07 PM

Regal angel in a 125G SPS reef with a few gonioporas for ~ 4 years. No problems. Does eat zoas and xenia though.

rodcpierce · 07/14/2009, 04:21 PM

Ive got a coral beauty and it hasnt touched a thing in my tank, but i do feed quite heavily.

LobsterOfJustice · 07/14/2009, 09:31 PM

all entered up to this point

06/27/2009, 10:08 PM	#26
LobsterOfJustice Recovering Detritophobe Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 7,443	All data up to this point entered. Some percents so far: Blueface - 75% Flame - 84% Coral Beauty - 86% Regal - 70% (a lot of notes on this one though) Majestic - 71% Potter's - 82% Not enough data on other species yet. __________________ If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. I remember when zoanthids were called things like "green" and "orange" and not "reverse gorilla nipple." Current Tank Info: 180g reef with all the bells and whistles

06/28/2009, 05:04 AM	#27
synofreak Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Rockford,IL Posts: 739	1) Flame Angel, 1.5yrs, LPS,softies,Nems,few SPS, clam 2) 95% reef safe 3) picked on open brain, moved brain to other tank __________________ Give your dogs fresh water all the time, why not your reef=). Current Tank Info: 125g and 120g

06/30/2009, 07:45 AM	#28
LobsterOfJustice Recovering Detritophobe Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 7,443	bump __________________ If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. I remember when zoanthids were called things like "green" and "orange" and not "reverse gorilla nipple." Current Tank Info: 180g reef with all the bells and whistles

06/30/2009, 08:10 AM	#29
michael_cb_125 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 3,358	I have ket the following Angels in my reef tanks with the following results: Flame Angel: I kept this fish for over a year in two different reef tanks. First was my 240 gallon. This tank has SPS, Clams, Zoanthus, and LPS. The fish never touched a single coral or clam. Then I moved her over to my Elos 70 (55 gallons). In this tank I had SPS and LPS also. Again she never touched anything. Potters Angel: I obtained this fish at the same time as the Flame. He was in the same tanks with the same corals. Again this fish never touched a single coral or clam. Majestic Angel: I had this fish for several months before I took the 240 gallon reef down. She was as safe with corals as my flame and potters. I never saw her touch a single coral or clam. The only think that she ever picked at were the barnacles and mussels that were in the rock work. Regal Angel: I had this fish for over a year and a half. She was in the 240 and the Elos 70. This was the most "reef safe" fish that I have ever had. Ive had clown fish that were more abusive to corals than this fish was. Blue Face: Ive kept this Juvenile 1.5" fish in an Elos Mini for several months. She is in the tank with LPS and Zoanthus. The only coral that she has ever taken a likin' to was an aussie elegance coral, which she ate. Bellus: No issues. IMO the key to keeping angels off of corals, is to feed often and keep them preoccupied. I feed my tank 4-7 times per day. In my tanks with angels I feed on the higher end of the scale. These fish feed almost constantly in the wild, and when we bring them into our tanks, they forage just as they do in the wild. If you look at Centropyge angels, they constantly nip at the substrate/rockworks/anything in their path. It should be expected that these fish may nip at corals. But typically the nipping is only enough to irritate the coral, not kill it. I have noticed that many times centropyge angels will nip at a coral, move on past, and come back several minutes later to consume the mucous that the coral secreted in response to the nipping. They dont typically eat the coral flesh, just the secretions. Also, if you keep the fish "entertained" they are less likely to pick at corals. I have seen some tanks with large angels that look restless, and as such they pick at corals. I do not believe that this is the fish desiring to eat the coral, as much as it is the fish just nipping out of "boredom". I know I am using human terminology for fish, but I think it works. IMO the best way to preoccupy fish is by adding other similar fish. For example, multiple angels. These are just my observations, I may be totally incorrect. But frequent feedings, and preoccupied fish has worked for me. ~Michael __________________ "People are too durable, that's their main trouble. They can do too much to themselves, they last too long" The more I learn, the less I know. Current Tank Info: Elos Mini and 120

06/30/2009, 08:27 AM	#30
zooty Fish Warden Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Reading, PA Posts: 694	1. Flame Angel w/SPS, LPS, Softies & Zoas; 2. Reef Safe 3. Nothing - 3 years LPS = Favia, Wells, Euphyllas SPS = Acropora, millipora, motipora, pocillipora, digitata Softies = Leather, Kenya Tree, Mushrooms, zoanthids, gsp, Xenia Gorgonia Clam = Crocea (3") the clam didn't live long but I don't think the flame bothered it 1. Potter's Angel w/SPS, LPS, Softies & Zoas; 2. Mostly Reef Safe (See below) 3. Nothing - 1 year LPS = Favia, Wells, Euphyllas SPS = montipora Softies = Leather, Kenya Tree, Mushrooms, zoanthids, gsp, Xenia Gorgonia -This fish was in a tank with a Cherub who nipped zoas and the gorgonia, I never saw the Potter do this and still blame the Cherub. :-) 1. Cherub Angel w/SPS, LPS, Softies & Zoas; 2. Mostly Reef Safe (See below) 3. Zoas, Gorg - 1 year LPS = Favia, Wells, Euphyllas SPS = montipora Softies = Leather, Kenya Tree, Mushrooms, zoanthids, gsp, Xenia Gorgonia -This fish was in a tank with a Potter and I'm 99% sure it was the Cherub who nipped zoas and the gorgonia, I never saw the Potter do this and still blame the Cherub. :-) __________________ A clean skimmer is a happy skimmer Current Tank Info: 180g RR, 3 AI Royal Blue LEDs, Oct. Skim, mixed reef

06/30/2009, 09:11 AM	#31
jmann Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Searcy, Arkansas Posts: 150	I have a coral beauty and a flame and have no issues in a 240 gal. reef, sps and lps. I agree with previous statements about feeding, if your system allows for good feeding of the fish, I doubt there well be any problems. If on the other hand you feed sparingly the fish are going to start looking for food, who can blame them? My angels stop and nip a coral now and then but do no damage. __________________ jmann Current Tank Info: 230 sps and fish

06/30/2009, 09:33 AM	#32
nreefer Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 362	All the following in a LPS/Softie/Zoas tank with some Monti Caps and Digi's Queen - perfect - 3 years Emperor - perfect - 4 years Flame - perfect - 4 years French - perfect - 3 years

06/30/2009, 10:54 AM	#33
eskymick Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Pulaski, WI Posts: 1,368	Majestic ... in my reef for 16 months. Completely safe with all SPS and with my only LPS coral (torch), too. African Flame Back (pair) ... in my reef for 18 months. Completely safe with all SPS and with my only LPS coral (torch), too. __________________ SG - 1.025 pH - 8.1 NH4/NH3 - 0 mg/L NO2 - .003 mg/L NO3 - .2 mg/L Calc. - 420 dKH - 8.0 Flow ~ 80x Current Tank Info: 24" cube SPS Reef, 15 gal sump, 1- LumenBright Pendant with 250w 20K Phoenix lamp, 1 - Vortech MP40, ATB 840 v1.5 skimmer.

06/30/2009, 03:04 PM	#34
OceanDweller Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Longview Texas Posts: 294	Coral beauty 1 year flame angel 5 years both reef safe. __________________ Brad

06/30/2009, 03:31 PM	#35
Hongt713 Moved On Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: houston, tx Posts: 158	i had a juv blue face angel, i can say he is NOT reef safe. i had him for 3months he ate up $500.00+ worth of corals from sps to hammers frogsspawns zoas scolys and even killed my clam

06/30/2009, 04:12 PM	#36
TTU_Reefer Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 528	Elibi angel 3.5", 90% reef safe for a year Tank is 80% SPS(He never touches) 10% GSP, 10% zoas and button polyps. She picks the rocks and some times tastes a coral or two but I have never lost a coral bc of her. However my turbo snails are NOT frag rack safe haha my frags end up on the sand every morning __________________ "Sheep only have two speeds, graze and stampede..." Current Tank Info: Reef and FOWLR

07/04/2009, 11:50 PM	#37
matt01 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 8	Regal - 3yrs safe with SPS Majestic - 2yrs safe with SPS Personifer - 1yr safe with SPS

07/05/2009, 07:22 AM	#38
steelersfan Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: San Juan Capistrano, Ca Posts: 796	Flame in a 90 gallon tank- I have had him for two years, and he has not been reef safe. He loves clams and LPS (Acans, plates, & Frogspawn).

07/05/2009, 09:41 AM	#39
jadeguppy Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: nw Florida Posts: 2,611	bi-color- my mixed tank 9 months, in softie tank prior for 1+ years- reef-safe coral beauty- same as above I received both fish from another reefer when he tore down his tank. He never had a problem with them in his reef tank.

07/05/2009, 03:07 PM	#40
jdhuyvetter SWFMAS Event Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Lehigh Acres, Florida Posts: 2,179	Flame Angel absolutely no problems for over a year. SPS, LPS and softies. One day he disappeared and never seen from again. Flameback, I've had two over the years with no problems. Goldflake, fine with SPS, LPS and softies for about 6 months. Then one day he decided he liked favias and montiporas. Moved him into a softie tank. No problem for a year and then one day he decided he like zoas. Seems to only go after the small expensive frags. So far he has left the cheap colonies alone. __________________ Be kind to animals.....kiss a shark! "Great things happen when you start to add more light. The heavens open, angels sing and there is Peace on Earth" RockDoc Current Tank Info: 300 gallon stony reef, 300 gallon softie tank, 120 gallon FW/Orchid tank

07/13/2009, 09:50 AM	#41
LobsterOfJustice Recovering Detritophobe Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 7,443	bump __________________ If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. I remember when zoanthids were called things like "green" and "orange" and not "reverse gorilla nipple." Current Tank Info: 180g reef with all the bells and whistles

07/13/2009, 10:18 AM	#42
Kahuna Tuna Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Arizona Posts: 2,587	Here are my experiences with angels and corals. Passer- 4 years safe with polyps, shrooms. Halfblack (dwarf)- 3 years safe with polyps, shrooms. Asfur- 3+ years safe with leathers, shrooms, polyps. Devoured a frag of frogspawn in minutes. Genicanthus (Blackspot pair)- 1+ year safe with leathers, shrooms, polyps. Coral Beauty- 2 years safe with leathers, shrooms, polyps. Flagfin- 2 years safe with SPS. Blueface- 1 1/2 years safe with SPS. Majestic- 1 1/2 years safe with SPS, polyps. Back in the day all of my tanks were FO so a lot of my experience with angels has not included keeping them with corals. Of the angels I have kept in the last 20 years or so only the asfur ate a coral (LPS) and that fish never touched anything else. No other angel I have kept in a reef has so much as nipped anything. Maybe I have just been lucky but my experiences with angels and corals has been very positive. I do keep my fish well fed and my systems always provide lots of grazing opportunities. __________________ "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." -George Washington Current Tank Info: No tank currently

07/13/2009, 10:48 AM	#43
jasonrp104 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: vt Posts: 1,113	Coral Beauty 1 year: Has touched nothing Flame 7 months: Also touched nothing but picks at the rocks alot more than the CB My tank has Zoos, shrooms, LPS, glove polyps.

07/13/2009, 06:19 PM	#44
el aguila Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Alexis, NC Posts: 497	Flame for over 2 years in a 55G with SPS, clam, LPS, and xenia with no nipping ever observed.

07/13/2009, 10:38 PM	#45
Goodwood Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Destin, Florida Posts: 700	Regal 5 years: SPS safe only. Centropyge: Tried most of the common ones with SPS. They all seems to start nipping after 6 months to a year. The nipping was harmless. I just like my PE.

07/14/2009, 12:53 PM	#46
LobsterOfJustice Recovering Detritophobe Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 7,443	all data up to here entered. i will post the spreadsheet so far tonight. __________________ If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. I remember when zoanthids were called things like "green" and "orange" and not "reverse gorilla nipple." Current Tank Info: 180g reef with all the bells and whistles

07/14/2009, 01:32 PM	#47
lowincwrx Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 287	Cherub Pygmy (c. argi) - 1yr in my 29g - reef safe* LPS, SPS, Zoas and Clam Lps- chalices, favias, dendros, wellsophylia, frogspawn, bubble, duncans, acans, micromussa, cyphastrea, candy canes Sps- montis, digis, acros clam- crocea *a nip every now and then when feeding the tank but mostly to get the food, never caused any damage to any coral.

07/14/2009, 04:07 PM	#48
RichK Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Wayne PA Posts: 692	Regal angel in a 125G SPS reef with a few gonioporas for ~ 4 years. No problems. Does eat zoas and xenia though.

07/14/2009, 04:21 PM	#49
rodcpierce Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Cedar Rapids, IA Posts: 201	Ive got a coral beauty and it hasnt touched a thing in my tank, but i do feed quite heavily.

07/14/2009, 09:31 PM	#50
LobsterOfJustice Recovering Detritophobe Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 7,443	all entered up to this point __________________ If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. I remember when zoanthids were called things like "green" and "orange" and not "reverse gorilla nipple." Current Tank Info: 180g reef with all the bells and whistles