Plasma LEP - why wasn't it a big success ?

[jestronix]

So why didn't this take off ?

Cost ? Plenty of LED and T5 units cost the same or more.
Colour ? I think this was the major draw back, but just like those old days of halide u add actinics or led.
Results ? We read endless threads on full spectrum and LEP kicks *** in this category nothing comes close! Full real spectrum, led halide T5 don't touch it.
Profit ? Yep u bet ya, led light manufactures make a shitload more out of a $700 led unit than a plasma. We are talking $80 worth of led chips on a $700 light the luxim plasma kit would be far more.
Features ? Let's face it reefers love tinkering with settings.
Rare so proven results are harder to find. Thus less trust, but many are happy to read about a thread with pure led but fail to investigate long term success.

So who's running them and who's had success ? It's now 4 - 5 years later. I'd be keen to see how those tanks are going.

Will I still buy one? U bet ya

[herring_fish]

I was following a user that got one when they first came out. I believe that it was free for him. In a few months, he took it back out. He said that it was too yellow and very hot. That was when I cooled off on them.

If you try it, please keep posting. I would love to change my mind.

[jedimasterben]

The problem is low adoption in general lighting meant that its cost is and stayed high, on top of maxing out at ~5200K at full power. Luxim has a 12,000K model planned that was supposed to be released earlier this year, but I haven't heard anything from them about since December. They are also only 0-10v analog dimmed and dimming them to 20% output still uses 50% of the power, so dimming makes them significantly less efficient.

[jestronix]

Good point about the dimming, price wise a tad over an xr30pro so price is still not so bad based on what u get, full real spectrum far more power and pretty sweet life span. But pretty boring in the old features

Will post up when I get one

[reefwiser]

This type of lighting is not used in industry for general lighting so there would not be the same cross over benefits that MH,T5 and LED have enjoyed. With out general usage the use of a lighting type in our hobby could not support a lighting type by itself. As MH is being discontinued in the general industrial lighting at present it will be harder to support MH in the future.

[Big E]

This is for horticulture, but I think a company like this that can design something with the 50/50 bulbs would be very interesting.

There is also the option to supplement them as people have done with halides for years and now with LEDs.

http://igrowlights.com/index.php/order-online


What's impressive about IGrow is that they have a 5 year warranty and will even lease the light for a new customer to try out. If they were to develop an aquarium light with that type of warranty and lease option would blow competition out of the water.

[jedimasterben]

Originally Posted by reefwiser

This type of lighting is not used in industry for general lighting so there would not be the same cross over benefits that MH,T5 and LED have enjoyed. With out general usage the use of a lighting type in our hobby could not support a lighting type by itself. As MH is being discontinued in the general industrial lighting at present it will be harder to support MH in the future.

+1 to all of this. The lighting for our hobby is a not even a drop in the bucket in the lighting industry worldwide. I'm honestly surprised that our custom lamps don't cost significantly more.

[jestronix]

Ed, not plasma induction, I was talking LEP. However plasma induction will kick out T5 in years to come. ATI induction light with no bulb changes for 10 years , hell yeh.

[jedimasterben]

Originally Posted by jestronix

Ed, not plasma induction, I was talking LEP. However plasma induction will kick out T5 in years to come. ATI induction light with no bulb changes for 10 years , hell yeh.

The problem is that Sylvania (who manufactures ATI lamps) manufactures fluorescent lamps, HID, halogen, and LEDs (via Osram), not induction plasma lamps, and unless the industry explodes (they've been available for years now), it's highly unlikely they'll begin manufacturing them. Mercury lighting is being phased out, and with induction plasma lamps using mercury... well, you know.

[jestronix]

Good point , Mercury shuts the door on this happening.

[AquaTDV]

I have a Luxim LEP/LED Luminarc diy unit that I ran over a 60 cube that was attached to a 240 DT for well over a year. My experience it that some corals did very well, even turned freakish colors. While most SPS just turned brown. I tried playing with the photo period as well as the LED intensity. I just couldn't figure it out and I got tired of taking beautiful SPS from my DT only to stress them in an adjacent system. I think my hopes were a little too high. I was looking for the same results as a 400watt 6500k Iwasaki from over a decade ago, with the LEP wattage. The look was the same, but for me I just couldn't translate it to a successful reef tank. I could probable make a fortune selling the coolest looking anemones. It would turn Condys into the craziest blue/purple you've ever seen, also clams did very well under it.

[AquaTDV]

Here is a video of the fixture and a few different anemones I was experimenting with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUZ0onYDA_s

[Big E]

Originally Posted by jestronix

Ed, not plasma induction, I was talking LEP. However plasma induction will kick out T5 in years to come. ATI induction light with no bulb changes for 10 years , hell yeh.

Woops, sorry, I thought that is where you were going from your previous threads.

[kevin_e]

The bulbs we use in this hobby have always been specialized. I'm not sure why people switching from 2,400 K or 3,400 K incandescent bulbs to LEDs would have any effect on the lighting in our niche. No one is using Blue Plus, or Phoenix bulbs in their house our in commercial structures. If there is a market for them, they will exist.

[jedimasterben]

Originally Posted by kevin_e

The bulbs we use in this hobby have always been specialized. I'm not sure why people switching from 2,400 K or 3,400 K incandescent bulbs to LEDs would have any effect on the lighting in our niche. No one is using Blue Plus, or Phoenix bulbs in their house our in commercial structures. If there is a market for them, they will exist.

Niche products only exist if a manufacturer is already making the product and deem it worthwhile to spend the capital to do it. Like mentioned earlier, all of the lighting sold to the aquarium hobby is not even a drop in the bucket in the lighting market worldwide, so really it's amazing we have the selection of lamps we have.

[kevin_e]

Originally Posted by jedimasterben

Niche products only exist if a manufacturer is already making the product and deem it worthwhile to spend the capital to do it. Like mentioned earlier, all of the lighting sold to the aquarium hobby is not even a drop in the bucket in the lighting market worldwide, so really it's amazing we have the selection of lamps we have.

Right, but we're not buying products directly from the larger manufacturers that are relying on larger clientele. We're not buying Phillips or GE products, we're buying ATI products, which is a company solely in existence because of our niche. That niche still exists, as does the demand.

If demand exists, products will be there. It's simple economics, regardless of how big or small a clientele may be.

[jedimasterben]

Originally Posted by kevin_e

Right, but we're not buying products directly from the larger manufacturers that are relying on larger clientele. We're not buying Phillips or GE products, we're buying ATI products, which is a company solely in existence because of our niche. That niche still exists, as does the demand.

And ATI is held by the balls by Sylvania, the manufacturer of their lamps. If Sylvania lowers production of T5 lamps, they're first going to cut the products that cost the most for the smallest return.

[tkeracer619]

what Jedi said.

[reefwiser]

Originally Posted by kevin_e

Right, but we're not buying products directly from the larger manufacturers that are relying on larger clientele. We're not buying Phillips or GE products, we're buying ATI products, which is a company solely in existence because of our niche. That niche still exists, as does the demand.

If demand exists, products will be there. It's simple economics, regardless of how big or small a clientele may be.

Problem here is that the government is phasing out lighting that is not energy efficient. Here at my work we have thousands of MH fixtures. in to large plants.We are having to switch to Led lighting to meet energy goals and brightness levels at the plant floor. There are led fixtures out there that can produce more light than MH at a lower cost per watt. I am sitting under one right now. MH and T5's days are numbered when the industrial companies switch to led the economic support to manufacture MH and T5 will be gone and our little niche will not make any difference.

[kevin_e]

Industry is not hobby. Ppl need to stop looking at them as the same thing. Further more, most of the products are made overseas anyways.

Companies like Hamilton and ATI will continue to exist and meet hobbiests needs. If that includes t5 and halide, they will be made available. Those companies don't rely on commercial business.

This shouldn't be a debate. Halide and t5 aren't going anywhere until the market says so. If and when it does, production will cease.

[jedimasterben]

Originally Posted by kevin_e

Industry is not hobby. Ppl need to stop looking at them as the same thing.

You seriously think that our very small niche doesn't depend on the industry?

[reefwiser]

Originally Posted by kevin_e

.

This shouldn't be a debate. Halide and t5 aren't going anywhere until the market says so. If and when it does, production will cease.

The government is saying so and industry is following the government act's.
Go into a store and look for a 100 watt light bulb. OPPs why can I not find it. The government act say for industry to stop making them.

I have been in the hobby a very long time and remember when ATI started selling standard blue print lights as actinic lights. An buffing off the phillips info and stamping theirs on. Lighting we use comes from othre fields and we just adapt it for our use.

[kevin_e]

Everything we use in this hobby is specialized for our needs, from skimmers, to pumps, to heaters, to calcium reactors etc. This hobby may benefit from the advancement in other fields, but ultimately, everything in our hobby is developed for a very select group of individuals. The changes in residential and commercial industry will have no bearing on our hobby unless our hobby says so. ATI develops bulbs specifically for our use and they will continue to do so regardless of what lighting systems are installed in homes and businesses if we continue to buy them.

The same goes for residential and commercial businesses. Companies are switching over because they cost less money all around, which is why people in our hobby are doing so also; however, if this hobby deems the technology inadequate, which many have, they will seek other options and companies will adjust to meet those demands.

Stop trying to reflect the practices of residential and commercial businesses on our hobby, they don't apply.

[jedimasterben]

Originally Posted by kevin_e

Everything we use in this hobby is specialized for our needs, from skimmers, to pumps, to heaters, to calcium reactors etc. This hobby may benefit from the advancement in other fields, but ultimately, everything in our hobby is developed for a very select group of individuals. The changes in residential and commercial industry will have no bearing on our hobby unless our hobby says so. ATI develops bulbs specifically for our use and they will continue to do so regardless of what lighting systems are installed in homes and businesses if we continue to buy them.

The same goes for residential and commercial businesses. Companies are switching over because they cost less money all around, which is why people in our hobby are doing so also; however, if this hobby deems the technology inadequate, which many have, they will seek other options and companies will adjust to meet those demands.

Stop trying to reflect the practices of residential and commercial businesses on our hobby, they don't apply.

I don't think that you're understanding what we're saying. ATI is not a lamp manufacturer. They buy lamps from Sylvania and resell them. If Sylvania slows down production of fluorescent lamps, which do you think that they'll start cutting first? The ones that sell the most or the ones that sell the fewest?

[reefwiser]

Ben I don't think he gets it.
The whole economy of scale thing.
An the whole government says stop making thing.