Help SPS corals dying slowly

[Randy27]

And one more thing, it's not the vermetid snails causing that kindof damage. Yes, they can cause issues..but not the massive systemic problems you're facing. Deal with those with epoxy and/or pliers later.

[Staisman]

Ok I got my Triton test results.

[Staisman]

One thing I noticed is Ca lvl 450 when my test kit shows 400 right now. that's weird. Other than that I can see couple Elements are elevated. I am reading about Sn being elevated in the tanks, but this is very common problem apparently. Randy has a topic about it on this forum. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2454056

[Staisman]

Originally Posted by chevegan

Also it has been mentioned a couple of times but I don't think you addressed it. Did you check for rust? All your magnets, every one of them. From pumps to motors. Let us know

If it followed your move and you used all fresh new water it's gotta be something physical (if you stopped dosing everything that is).

I did check everything and couldn't find any rust. All my fans are 1 year old, I took all the extras out of the water. I don't have any clips or magnets in the water except 4 fans and 2 heaters and DC pump.

[bertoni]

If the number for strontium is correct, your tank is closer to natural sea levels than their set point:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.htm

I'm also assuming that they meant mg/L, but either way, the level in your tank is fine. All of the numbers for your system are fine.

I'm not sure what approaches you've tried, since the thread is long, but have you tried adding a PolyFilter? It can be useful in some cases, particularly when copper is present.

[Staisman]

Originally Posted by bertoni

If the number for strontium is correct, your tank is closer to natural sea levels than their set point:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.htm

I'm also assuming that they meant mg/L, but either way, the level in your tank is fine. All of the numbers for your system are fine.

I'm not sure what approaches you've tried, since the thread is long, but have you tried adding a PolyFilter? It can be useful in some cases, particularly when copper is present.

Yes I used Poly filter and it turned out white. I posted couple pages ago.

[bertoni]

Hmm, I don't know what turning what might indicate, if anything. The company might be able to help.

[Staisman]

Do corals care about salinity lvl if alk, Ca and Mg are in the normal range?

Let say if you keep your water at 1.020 but dosing those three elements to keep at normal lvls will corals care?

[bertoni]

At some point, as you lower SG, the corals will fail to grow well and eventually die. I'm not sure how much data there is on the topic. I am not sure that it's a question that interests marine scientists.

[Staisman]

I think my problem with salinity, I have two bottles with calibration solution for my refractometer and I checked with both and both shows very different numbers. I was using one bottle for long time and now I am not sure which one is correct. I need to find a way to calibrate my refractometer.

[bertoni]

This article might help:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-06/rhf/index.htm

[fishresponse]

Tagging along as I've had similar issues as you.

[Staisman]

Originally Posted by fishresponse

Tagging along as I've had similar issues as you.

DId you read the whole thread? There are a lot of suggestions.

[Staisman]

Originally Posted by bertoni

This article might help:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-06/rhf/index.htm

If the solution I made is correct then my aquarium water is 1.029SG. Would it be a cause of my problems? How about fish? Can they tolerate such high salinity ? Because I have no issues with fish, no illness signs or abnormal behavior.

[bertoni]

I'd lower the SG slowly to 1.0264, but 1.029 probably is fine for the animals we keep. Parts of the Red Sea run higher than that.

[anthonys51]

Originally Posted by Staisman

If the solution I made is correct then my aquarium water is 1.029SG. Would it be a cause of my problems? How about fish? Can they tolerate such high salinity ? Because I have no issues with fish, no illness signs or abnormal behavior.

That's too funny. I think someone suggested to check your salinity. Didn't you blow them off.
Sps are very moody and tricky. I had them growing for 9 months in my current tank ( tank is only 9 months old). I had a baby June 13th. Kind of didn't test or watch my tank as much but June 29th 3 sps colonies lost color, 5 large frags died alk because my alk went from 8.5 to 7.2 in 2 weeks. This is why I am now testing daily for alk. It's is the most important thing in your tank for sps and it's the easiest to test But yes I would think salinity at 1.029 would be a problem with sps. I know the guy mention the Red Sea , but my acros didn't come from the Red Sea


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[HappyReeferLOL]

Read your whole post and am amazed that your corals are still dying in your new tank. Ive had a reef tank for 5 years but no hard coral only soft, so I am still new to this hobby. However, here is something that has not been mentioned: Do you have a house keeper that could be using aerosol furniture polish that maybe finding its way into your tank? Could she be using windex on your windows that are next to your tank? Have you had a bug exterminator that could have used powder or spray inside your home? I know from my own experiment that reef rock that has been in a high nitrate and phosphate enviroment can soak up the no3 and po4 and release them slowly over months in a tank with new saltwater and nothing else. So that makes me think this, I agree with you that you overdosed the NoPox, and possibly to the point it was toxic which could have been soaked up by your rock and is still being released. Hope your tank begins to recover soon.

[Staisman]

Originally Posted by anthonys51

That's too funny. I think someone suggested to check your salinity. Didn't you blow them off.
Sps are very moody and tricky. I had them growing for 9 months in my current tank ( tank is only 9 months old). I had a baby June 13th. Kind of didn't test or watch my tank as much but June 29th 3 sps colonies lost color, 5 large frags died alk because my alk went from 8.5 to 7.2 in 2 weeks. This is why I am now testing daily for alk. It's is the most important thing in your tank for sps and it's the easiest to test But yes I would think salinity at 1.029 would be a problem with sps. I know the guy mention the Red Sea , but my acros didn't come from the Red Sea


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The thing is I didn't think that calibrating solution could expire. I do calibrate my refractometer every time I use it. It just happened I found a thread where somebody mentioned that his calibration solution was off and thats when I decide to check mine. I have two bottle 2 years old and both of them shows different numbers. I just ordered milwaukee digital refractometer that doesn't need calibration fluid.

[ClownNut]

Originally Posted by anthonys51

Ok good. Hopefully you will stop dosing kno3 too and never dose nopox again. Nopox should only be dosed as a last resort. If 20 percent water changes once a week can't lower nitrates. Then try nopox. But start with good old fashion water changes first


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make no sense. i use nopox and kno3 to keep everything at 0, which is one of the best carbon source out there. i cleaned my tank once every3-4 months that's if i decide to clean it to take pics. glass stay so clean and corals color and growth are great.

[anthonys51]

Originally Posted by ClownNut

make no sense. i use nopox and kno3 to keep everything at 0, which is one of the best carbon source out there. i cleaned my tank once every3-4 months that's if i decide to clean it to take pics. glass stay so clean and corals color and growth are great.

You don't need to keep nitrates and phosphates at zero. Nopox works great it can stripe the water of both quickly. Just saying with sps his levels whereby causes them to die. So no reason to add something especially when you aren't sure what killing them. More variables you add harder to balance the equation. Not saying people don't use it successfully just saying it wasn't needed in this case. To many people think nirtrates kill sps. I had mine at 25 for 9 months.


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[fishresponse]

Originally Posted by Staisman

DId you read the whole thread? There are a lot of suggestions.

I did and have been through similar troubleshooting. Haven't done the triton test yet. need to try that before I do anything else.

[tmz]

Oh my;

So many opinions posing as fact in some posts :

A few notes including my opinions/reactions and some facts to consider as I read through it:

NOPOx is organic carbon dosing mostly ethanol and acetic acid. similar to the mix of vodka and vinegar I've used for 8 years. It won't strip PO4 like gfo does but does encourage heterotrophic bacteria that will reduce it significantly provided they have the other nutrients they need like nitrogen,etc; BTW these bacteria when provided with an organic carbon source take up ammonia in a one step process preferentially to NO3 which they also use though. This leads to less nitrate production from ammonia oxidizers due to the competion by the heterotrphs.

ro/di producing water with a tds over zero is not working and may be releasing high concentrations of harmful elements;

API test kits are fine,IME;

9 dkh is ok but constancy is key; I prefer 8.5 or so currently though I've run the system with mid 9's and no problems:

salinity matters and cosntancy is also important; 1.028 might be ok but IMO 1.026 is better;1.020 also mention would probably kill a lot of things over time.

there have been some issues with the Titron tests in terms of process and accuracy; I wouldn't rely on trace element data form them for actionable information;

more frequent smaller water changes help constancy ; I prefer 1% per day.

nitrates of 1ppm or less , preferably around 0.2 work well for sps including delicate types;

turning off the skimmer not only stops aeration ,it leaves stagnant water in the skimmer and reduces the removal of organics; if you must turn of the aeration for some reason just unplug the airline and let the water keep flowing. If high pH is the issue the aeration will help it drop via the increased gas exchange with room air;

I don't think NO3 kills snails;

If you choose to dose nitrate I'd use sodium nitrate in very small amounts( I use 1 tsp for 700gallons) every ten days or so for example.

Vermetild infestations can stress corals; other pests like tegastes and coral eating flat worms can also be an issue.

[Staisman]

Nice info Tom, maybe you also know why my corals are dying ? lol


So from your post we can make a conclusion that NoPox will not cause such damage, water parameters are fine, nitrates are also not an issue, what we have left?

About skimmer, we all know that amount of CO2 in the air lower PH of the water. By running a skimmer we aerate the water, so we supply more oxigen into the water. So more oxigen = higher PH. So if you turn the skimmer off we should get lower PH numbers. Or I am totally lost.

[tmz]

Oxygen has nothing to do with pH. More oxygen does not equal higher pH. It's driven by CO2. The CO2 in the room air will be at atmospheric levels or higher . Aeration will thus bring pH that's high (say over 8.5) down.

I don't know what's killing them It could be many things singularly or in combination but there are some possible trails noted: Sg variations, Alk variations,post di tds,pests,a toxin,possibly lighting Sorry for your troubles.

If it were my tank ;I'd clean it out ; frag the sick corals ; establish constant parameters lighting and flow for starters and check out the di resin to run 0 tds.

[anthonys51]

Nopox doesn't kill sps. But the op tank is all over the place and him using nopox is just another element in his tank being unstable. He stripped his water of nutrients then dosed nitrates back in. Sps don't like change. Imo nitrates of 20ppm is better than having 20ppm then 0 ppm then 10 ppm


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