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Old 02/01/2016, 12:42 AM   #2901
reefcentral123
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hey guys what UV sterilizer do you recommend for a 75 gal? preferably something thats on amazon.

so far with dirty method my nitrates are at 25 ppm but phosphates are still at 0 ppm for some reason. my dKh is at 13 and calcium is at 475ppm... i mightve went too much with the kalk.

pods everywhere.. copepods and amphipods, under the microscope i see what seems to be dinos inside the copepods being digested...


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Old 02/01/2016, 04:57 AM   #2902
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My attack on the Dino's has been temporarily thwarted by treating my tank for white spot and although in the ten days for treatment I didn't have a massive outbreak again as I still believe the garlic helps keep them down skimmer was turned off and so was the UV and as per instructions carbon removed. I still siphoned out as much Dino as I could but here's a couple of things I noticed.
1, mine don't seem to be toxic and have watched my coral beauty actually eating it, whether he is suicidal is yet to be seen!
2, after dipping the bits of rock and frags which were worse the Dino's just returned in that area with avengance adding to my thoughts on the good bacteria being wiped out.
3, they like Kenya trees and zoas and polyp corals as well as plants including cheato in the sump but so far bubble tip and hammer relatively unscathed.
4, lights off has little effect except perhaps for keeping them in the water column and then through the UV but notice that they even like the dark areas under rocks leaving that dusty look like on the glass as opposed to brown stringy on top of rocks corals etc.
5 Uv definitely helps
6, dirty method has made no difference to mine as Nitrate reached 50 while treating the ws.
7, also wondering whether reduced lighting is counter productive as I have absolutely no algae growing despite nitrates being 25-50 over four weeks.
8 cheato isn't growing either! When inspected under the microscope it actually looks like the Dino's are inside or at least sticking firmly to the stems.
9, coral snow also seems to help if added at night
10 even after using turkey basted to suck em up they return quickly to their favourite spots!
11 they like the power heads and girl around the down pipe!
Now ws treatment is over it is all out war, still siphoning as much as possible, more pods, adding phyto and also going to add more bacteria and continuing to add garlic to tank rather than feed. I am using recommended dose as just daren't add too much. I have hydrogen peroxide but want to try pods and algae growth first. I am hoping that my thoughts on lack of the good bacteria may be a key thing here.



Last edited by joti26; 02/01/2016 at 05:24 AM. Reason: added a couple of things I missed
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Old 02/01/2016, 06:58 AM   #2903
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Can we conduct a quick survey of the type of lighting everything is using?

I have chinese LEDboxes.
I have Dsuny's and actually noticed them after I swapped from T5's but any number of factors could be at play here but would be interested to know the outcome of this. Are Led's a contributing factor or just as likely under T5's or other lights?


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Old 02/01/2016, 07:09 AM   #2904
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Following on from my previous post when I said I thought my coral beauty was eating Dino's. Convinced my Dino's aren't toxic ones as no losses to snails or wrasse. But I added the coral beauty three days ago and now it has settled in, last night I thought it was eating the brown stringy Dino's. I have just spent over an hour watching it closely and it blooming well is eating them even watched it pick a bit off the glass! Whether it survives this onslaught remains to be seen but having checked and double checked even picking it off the sand it seems it actually likes the stuff. The battle albeit small and niggley still goes on however, waiting for new skimmer and bacteria now to try and outcompete the bloody stuff!


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Old 02/01/2016, 07:27 AM   #2905
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Are you sure it isn't cyano or diatoms? Take a new pic?


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Old 02/01/2016, 07:30 AM   #2906
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Unsure if my attempts have gotten rid of dinos but I will say I haven't had to scrape the glass in about 5 days, the water in my tank is some of the clearest I remember. I see some greener areas of my GHA patches that were turning brown and dying off. I assume that's due to the phyto dosing. It's also time to change the GFO. Will go about siphoning again tonight I think and see what I get out of the tank.


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Old 02/01/2016, 07:33 AM   #2907
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Hmmm. That's not necessarily good. You want a green film on the glass to show that there is algae growing vs dinos.


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Old 02/01/2016, 07:58 AM   #2908
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Are you sure it isn't cyano or diatoms? Take a new pic?
Was that question for me? Yes absolutely sure as been studying them under a microscope for a while now, although not sure what type they are definitely not the same as some of the others but look similar and do the swimming in circles routine. Can't get a decent photo as so little left now it just doesn't show up. Just been watching the coral beauty again as actually can't believe what I'm seeing at the moment, it's like a feeding frenzy! Waiting to see if he drops dead tomorrow lol!


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Old 02/01/2016, 09:24 AM   #2909
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No- question was for Chris just above my question.


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Old 02/01/2016, 09:54 AM   #2910
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Can anyone provide the link that that dino survey which was conducted some time ago by pants?

Also, anyone else using questionable containers for mixing salt?


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Old 02/01/2016, 11:12 AM   #2911
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I'm using the cheaper rubber maid containers "roughneck" also reading there is some connection between dinos and plastics in the water? Anyone know anything about that?


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Old 02/01/2016, 03:23 PM   #2912
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I'm using the cheaper rubber maid containers "roughneck" also reading there is some connection between dinos and plastics in the water? Anyone know anything about that?
where have you read that? plastics leeching a chemical that dinos uptake?


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Old 02/01/2016, 03:23 PM   #2913
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do you guys have any idea why hammer corals are completely unaffected by dinos?


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Old 02/01/2016, 03:53 PM   #2914
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do you guys have any idea why hammer corals are completely unaffected by dinos?
Probably the same reason acans dont either. That might be their mucus they secreted


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Old 02/01/2016, 05:52 PM   #2915
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I am skeptical about RubberMaid trash containers (food grade) leaching anything that would encourage dinoflagellates. There are lots of tanks using water from them without any problems. I'd look elsewhere for the source of dinoflagellate problems, personally.


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Old 02/01/2016, 06:22 PM   #2916
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do you guys have any idea why hammer corals are completely unaffected by dinos?
My hammer was one of the very first casualties.

@seamonster I doubt lighting affects dinos. It comes up in this thread regularly, and we've got people using everything from metal halides, t5s, lots of leds, and me with my PC. Dinos have chlorophyll a and c rather than a and b (algae) as well as a fancy secondary pigment.

@jot Coral beauty angelfish are notorious for eating corals..perhaps they have a good resistance to dinos? I hope yours is ok, stunning fish. There does seem to be a lot of variation in toxicity even with the same species. Dirty method won't work if there's no phosphate, btw. Not seeing any algae despite super high N makes me suspect you're at 0 P.

will update with my own tank soon
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Old 02/01/2016, 07:00 PM   #2917
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Mixed news from the battle front today.
My tiny beakers proved their worth and I discarded them. The "green tea" treated beaker, I could find no living dinos - the untreated, still majority dinos.
In the larger scale test (1 gal.) the dinos are still present, but mixed with all kinds of micro life. It's approximately following the path of the tiny beakers test, so yesterday I began the skimmer "green tea" treatment directly in the tank.
I added the second treatment today.

Bad news:
Even after two of the "green tea" treatments (delivered pumps-off directly to sand bed over dinos) and 24 hours elapsed, samples from the dino sections show almost pure dinos - no signs of micro life disrupting their environment.

Obviously, to keep it to scale with other tests I would have needed to add like 10-20 gallons of skimmate "green tea" instead of the 400ml doses I put in. So that is not possible. I'm thinking I should have siphoned thoroughly first to help the ratios.

Other bad news, slight dino dusting has made it to the rocks.

Good news, green algae is actually growing on the glass, and pods are popping up. More sunlight would help speed it up, but we won't get that tomorrow.


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Old 02/01/2016, 08:28 PM   #2918
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I am skeptical about RubberMaid trash containers (food grade) leaching anything that would encourage dinoflagellates. There are lots of tanks using water from them without any problems. I'd look elsewhere for the source of dinoflagellate problems, personally.
I'm talking about the cheaper ones, called "roughneck" they are black and kinda thin compared to the Brute cans.


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Old 02/01/2016, 08:35 PM   #2919
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Other bad news, slight dino dusting has made it to the rocks.
Are you blowing them off the rocks and catching them with filter socks?
Also need to go either all dark or blues only for a few days.
Also need carbon to remove their poison as they die

do not lose all hope if/when they dover every rock and coral. Mine went away as quickly as they came.


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Old 02/01/2016, 08:38 PM   #2920
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Ah, I see. Well, I probably would worry more about something toxic in it, but in theory, a toxin might encourage dinoflagellates. I think the odds are heavily against that possibility, though.


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Old 02/01/2016, 08:58 PM   #2921
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Randy's theory of the dinos being dependent on some other element may be relevant here. An excess of something that we're not used to measuring could excite them. It doesn't have to be a nutrient or a toxin. It could just be a non-reactive or trace element that dinos depend on and that are not common in most tanks. Maybe a little pollution gives them a boost. Maybe it's a pesticide or air spray that was accidentally introduced...

I guess a test would be a complete transplant of life from one system to a completely different new system (different equipment, etc...) to see if the dinos travel with the rocks and sand or if they disappear due to the absence of another source of pollution.

If they disappear - then it's a pollutant in the equipment/system.
If they reappear - then they're traveling with the rocks and life.

I personally don't think it's the result of a thinwall rubbermaid container since I don't use any. I do use the thick agricultural grade stuff.

If would be great to isolate a chemical source though.


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Old 02/01/2016, 09:35 PM   #2922
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Are you blowing them off the rocks and catching them with filter socks?
Also need to go either all dark or blues only for a few days.
Also need carbon to remove their poison as they die
Doing carbon. Don't have filter socks or a place to put them.
I'm doing something different with light. Trying high light, grow algae and lots of life, rather than light starve.
Darkness is Plan B.


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Old 02/01/2016, 09:57 PM   #2923
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well just for the record i'll type up what caused my dinos to appear

-started with dry rock
-was running GFO and phos was at 0, nitrates at 50 ppm in a BB tank
-never stayed on top of cleaning detritus, it would settle in a corner out of sight
-hydra 26 running pretty strong settings

tank running for about 1.5 years? there was one spot on the rocks that whatever coral I put there would have brown slime growing on it and it would die eventually... come to think of it I'm pretty sure it was dinos. Maybe a lack of good flow/light in that area weakened the coral and they would take over? But when the coral died they would disappear as well so they were always being kept in check?

-i had a light running 24/7 in my sump so there was a lot of algae and coralline growing there

-did a massive cleanup of the sump where i removed all the gunk and algae, cleaned everything and removed the sump light.
-started throwing in a shot of vodka every night (dumb )
-i started dosing "Two Little Fishies AcroPower Amino Acids for SPS Corals"

then it got real bad real fast. killing all the algae in the sump, turning off the light in the sump and dosing the vodka in excess n the AA was the main cause it seems like.


now i'm waiting on this cermedia block to arrive.. shut off skimmer.. dosing kalk... dosing phyto... pods everywhere but im still culturing some. did a 3 day lights out where 90% of dino disappeared but it came back. also dosing prodibio, zeobak and coral snow are on the way as well... doing dirty method -> nitrates at 25 ppm right now but phos at 0 for some reason... i'll buy a UV as well when i get the chance. 50 micron sock coming in as well so i can suck up the ones on the rock. no more water changes so that's a plus. im using activated carbon as well im not to keen on being exposed to ion channel toxins..

ostreopsis ovata btw


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Old 02/02/2016, 03:26 PM   #2924
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Doing carbon. Don't have filter socks or a place to put them.
I'm doing something different with light. Trying high light, grow algae and lots of life, rather than light starve.
Darkness is Plan B.

You have to have a way to remove them physically as they begin to die. I would consider implementing socks or any other type of physical filter, rinsed cleaned or replaced daily


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Old 02/02/2016, 06:16 PM   #2925
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How much phyto are you adding?
Bottle of Seachem says 5mil for every 50 gallons. This about you are adding?


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