Dinoflagellates. - Page 92

flamehawk1613 · 11/30/2015, 10:43 PM

I have been fighting what I think is dyno's . A few weeks ago my sand was covered with stringy snot . I have been vacuuming the sand everyday and it has improved but the sand is still red . so after reading many of the post in here I decided to mix up 23ml of peroxide in a one gallon of RODI water and pump that solution through a coral feeding tube right onto the sand bed. my problem has improved a ton , all I have is small patches now. my plan is to continue this for a few days and see how things go.

karimwassef · 12/01/2015, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikefromaz

Back in the middle of dino paradise again....sheesh! My last outbreak was stopped through aggressive tank maintenance, UV sterilizer and a lot of phyto and pods. This time I have decided to use daily siphoning and hydrogen peroxide. Any input or personal experiences with H2O2 against dinos would be appreciated.

Mike - do you know what triggered the relapse?

If UV isn't working, then you may need a new bulb. If the UV is in good condition, and not helping wit the dinos, then peroxide won't do much either.

something tipped the balance. It would be useful to understand what it was.

Billybatz9 · 12/01/2015, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dfee

DNA- you have sps, right? Why do you do water changes? Have you tried carbon dosing? I want to try carbon dosing , but haven't found a good answer yet for how Dino will behave

Billy- have you tried dirty method plus daily siphoning? Put the hose into you sump in a filter sock. That worked for me - they came back less and less everyday. ... Plus over feeding and pods and phyto.

Definitely still need to stay away from water changes - they come back every time. But now I somehow got my nitrates high and unsure what to do about them. Chaeto won't grow- probably cause no po4. Thinking about carbon dosing still

What is it in the dirty method that causes a reduction in them? I really don't want to have a hair algae and cyano outbreak with all my sps corals in there. Have you done dirty with sps corals? How did they react?

Fish Keeper82 · 12/01/2015, 03:06 PM

Following along since i now am in the same fight

jason2459 · 12/01/2015, 07:40 PM

There's still something there left but about gone for now until I screw something else up again.

Tigé21v · 12/02/2015, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dfee

Only Dino I see is some brown film on wave makers and chaeto. I guess it could be anything. But my nitrates got up to about 30 and phosphate read 0 on api test. I'm sure if I do a w/c the Dino's will appear more. I'm thinking about carbon dosing but have never tried it and only briefly read up on it. How else can I reduce nitrates? I don't think the chaeto in my new refugium is growing (probably because Dino's are taking out all the phosphate???).
Input anyone?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybatz9

I have nitrate problem also. Would like to see what you do. I did water change and nitrates are still up

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybatz9

Cyanobacteria building up on rock work (probably from over feeding). Did water change because of nitrates, and boom! Dino explosion all on sandbed. Any recommendations?

I've kind of jumped around around on this thread, started from the beginning , mostly to see just how active it still is. I'll need to go back and read it in its entirety. Lots of good info, reaffirming what I've kind of felt for a while now.
I'm not sure if it was ever covered, but has anyone tried dosing phosphates when they have elevated NO3 and little to no PO4?
I have a tank that has minimal livestock (couple of snails and crabs, a few small softies that don't really seem to grow). But after a long period of neglect, I had TONS of snot all over everything. Glass, rocks, sand, powerheads, you name it. Snot everywhere, but not so much as a speck of algae, including coralline. Nitrates were around 40 , PO4 was .01 to .02 (Hanna low range checker, the old style, the blue brick).
I started dosing phosphates, no other changes. Within a week or so they were 90% gone. Coralline started to grow, and a few small patches of algae.
(As a sidenote, a little cyano started to pop up)

csammis · 12/03/2015, 07:16 AM

What do you use to dose phosphate?

jason2459 · 12/03/2015, 08:24 AM

Adding phosphates is easy. I use food and lots of it.

csammis · 12/03/2015, 09:43 AM

Yes, but there's a difference between "adding" and "dosing"

That's why I asked - Tigé21v specifically said "dosing." If it was possible to dose phosphate in a measured and consistent way I'd prefer that, because if I'm going to dose something specifically to attempt control of a dino outbreak then I want the input to be measurable (so it can be repeatable).

bertoni · 12/03/2015, 02:09 PM

There are a variety of sodium and phosphate compounds that might work. The best approach would be to find a food-grade additive. They are used in cooking, and Amazon lists a few products along this line.

Tigé21v · 12/03/2015, 10:48 PM

Potassium phosphate.Doesn't take much, a little goes a long way.

csammis · 12/04/2015, 11:55 AM

Cool, thanks for the info.

On the subject of siphoning excess dinos from the tank through a filter sock and putting the water back: I tried this approach the other day but it did not work out well. The filter sock, a 200 micron BRS felt sock, didn't capture all of the dinos and the water was full of brown strands. Is that supposed to be normal? It looks like a lot of matter to put back in the tank so I ended up replacing the removed water with new saltwater.

DNA · 12/04/2015, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dfee

DNA- you have sps, right? Why do you do water changes? Have you tried carbon dosing? I want to try carbon dosing , but haven't found a good answer yet for how Dino will behave

I took the bio pellets off line because of the dinos, but did a period of Vodka later just to find out if the dinos would react to it.

Water changes used to cause a dino bloom, but they don't do that any more.
My dinos are annoyingly stable living their visible lives on the sandbed.

DNA · 12/04/2015, 01:51 PM

What is the relationship between Cyanobacteria and Dinoflagellates?
Most of us have them both.

I had already found a way to see the Cyano strands in the water column using extremely bright light and a dark background.
There is a lot of it in there during the day so I tried a new method last weekend. I filled my bathtub with tank water and let the water settle there for three days.

The purple cyano was clearly seen against the white tub and some of it got left behind after it got drained.

Fish Keeper82 · 12/04/2015, 02:13 PM

I too had both Cyano and Dinos. I contribute the initial bloom of cyano to Selcon since I was adding that to fish food often( much too often like every day). I used red slime remover to rid the cyano..... that's when my Dinos really took hold and covers a thin slime everywhere. You have to look closely to see it but its every where and only bad in two spots on the sand floor. During both these blooms PO4 and Nitrates are extremely low. The lower they went gradually Dinos got worse. Now Dinos seems to be at a stopping point in terms of growth. Don't get worse or better just stays the same.

I'm going to up the feeding and see if other algae will out compete the Dinos.

cal_stir · 12/04/2015, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csammis

Cool, thanks for the info.

On the subject of siphoning excess dinos from the tank through a filter sock and putting the water back: I tried this approach the other day but it did not work out well. The filter sock, a 200 micron BRS felt sock, didn't capture all of the dinos and the water was full of brown strands. Is that supposed to be normal? It looks like a lot of matter to put back in the tank so I ended up replacing the removed water with new saltwater.

Most dinos are 60uM or smaller so ideally you need a 10 to 20 uM sock. I used a brs media reactor with a 5uM sediment filter and a maxijet 1200 pump and pumped the water in the tank. Keep the pump and filter running in the sump so it doesn't turn rotten and you can use it a bunch of times before it plugs up.

Jewilson83 · 12/04/2015, 08:23 PM

Anyone here ever dosed Dino X with success?

Billybatz9 · 12/04/2015, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jewilson83

Anyone here ever dosed Dino X with success?

This is my last resort, and I am about to pull the trigger on this. These dinos are driving me crazy.

Billybatz9 · 12/04/2015, 10:05 PM

Removing sandbed next week if dinos dont get any better. I feel like they love the sand. but why? Any relationship the sand that they love?

karimwassef · 12/04/2015, 10:25 PM

I think sand allows the accumulation of waste. Without sufficient motion or cleaning, this decay allows bacteria to take over. That's usually cyano. Algae has a hard time sticking to sand, so an unhealthy sandbed is like a buffet for dinos... They seem to coexist well with bacteria and this is an ideal zone. They consume the waste before it makes it up to the rocks and glass where algae can use it. Then, they slowly take over the other spaces... Consuming up as they go... Until they get to feast on any waste without leaving any space or waste for algae... Tank domination!!!

Just my theory... It works better with the war music in my head.

So... Either fix the sand or remove it.

Jewilson83 · 12/04/2015, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybatz9

This is my last resort, and I am about to pull the trigger on this. These dinos are driving me crazy.

My shipment came in today. I'm dosing tonight!!!!

Quiet_Ivy · 12/05/2015, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybatz9

Removing sandbed next week if dinos dont get any better. I feel like they love the sand. but why? Any relationship the sand that they love?

They make cysts which are like seeds. So, once the sand is full of cysts the stupid dinos can just keep on returning.

You folks using dino X scare me. Please keep us updated on your progress as often as you can.

Cyano and dinos are both extremophiles, they survive when nothing else can. Cyano can photosynthesize, make nitrate, and store P, dinos are mixotrophic. So in our out of balance tanks they can manage to get a foothold.

I haven't been able to find any papers on this but I wonder whether dinos can actually consume cyano? They are known to eat bacteria, and cyano would be a big source of N and P.

ivy

DNA · 12/05/2015, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karimwassef

I think sand allows the accumulation of waste. Without sufficient motion or cleaning, this decay allows bacteria to take over. That's usually cyano. Algae has a hard time sticking to sand, so an unhealthy sandbed is like a buffet for dinos... They seem to coexist well with bacteria and this is an ideal zone. They consume the waste before it makes it up to the rocks and glass where algae can use it. Then, they slowly take over the other spaces... Consuming up as they go... Until they get to feast on any waste without leaving any space or waste for algae... Tank domination!!!

Just my theory... It works better with the war music in my head.

So... Either fix the sand or remove it.

I would have to say I disagree with many of your posts, but I also welcome them since we need varied ideas and views.

DNA · 12/05/2015, 02:15 AM

I've changed my tank info below and suggest frequent posters here do the same or mention their dinoflagellate species on every post.

karimwassef · 12/05/2015, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DNA

I would have to say I disagree with many of your posts, but I also welcome them since we need varied ideas and views.

LOL. Ok. What's your alternative theory?

12/01/2015, 07:40 PM	#2280
jason2459 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Iowa Posts: 9,671	There's still something there left but about gone for now until I screw something else up again. __________________ rebuild and recovery log: No more red house, you'll have to click on my name and visit my homepage! You can check out my parameters at reeftronics dot net website and look for my username. Current Tank Info: 180g mixed reef w/ a beananimal overflow to a dolomite RRUGF. \| 20g long G. Smithii Mantis Tank

12/03/2015, 08:24 AM	#2283
jason2459 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Iowa Posts: 9,671	Adding phosphates is easy. I use food and lots of it. __________________ rebuild and recovery log: No more red house, you'll have to click on my name and visit my homepage! You can check out my parameters at reeftronics dot net website and look for my username. Current Tank Info: 180g mixed reef w/ a beananimal overflow to a dolomite RRUGF. \| 20g long G. Smithii Mantis Tank

12/03/2015, 02:09 PM	#2285
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	There are a variety of sodium and phosphate compounds that might work. The best approach would be to find a food-grade additive. They are used in cooking, and Amazon lists a few products along this line. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

12/04/2015, 08:23 PM	#2292
Jewilson83 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Rochester, N.Y. Posts: 467	Anyone here ever dosed Dino X with success? __________________ If you knew better, you would do better....... 😏 Current Tank Info: 90 Gallon: Coralife Aqualife Pro 492W MH, Proflex Model 3 Refugium Sump, Jabeo WP-25 wavemaker, Bubble Magnus NAC6, Finnex 500W heater w/controller, Mag 9.5 Pump, SPS, LPS, Zoas, RBTAs, Fishes, Shrimps, Crabs, CUC, and Snails

12/04/2015, 10:25 PM	#2295
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	I think sand allows the accumulation of waste. Without sufficient motion or cleaning, this decay allows bacteria to take over. That's usually cyano. Algae has a hard time sticking to sand, so an unhealthy sandbed is like a buffet for dinos... They seem to coexist well with bacteria and this is an ideal zone. They consume the waste before it makes it up to the rocks and glass where algae can use it. Then, they slowly take over the other spaces... Consuming up as they go... Until they get to feast on any waste without leaving any space or waste for algae... Tank domination!!! Just my theory... It works better with the war music in my head. So... Either fix the sand or remove it. __________________ Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape

11/30/2015, 10:43 PM	#2276
flamehawk1613 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 3	I have been fighting what I think is dyno's . A few weeks ago my sand was covered with stringy snot . I have been vacuuming the sand everyday and it has improved but the sand is still red . so after reading many of the post in here I decided to mix up 23ml of peroxide in a one gallon of RODI water and pump that solution through a coral feeding tube right onto the sand bed. my problem has improved a ton , all I have is small patches now. my plan is to continue this for a few days and see how things go.

12/01/2015, 03:06 PM	#2279
Fish Keeper82 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 691	Following along since i now am in the same fight

12/03/2015, 07:16 AM	#2282
csammis Mental Institution Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 547	What do you use to dose phosphate?

12/03/2015, 09:43 AM	#2284
csammis Mental Institution Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 547	Yes, but there's a difference between "adding" and "dosing" That's why I asked - Tigé21v specifically said "dosing." If it was possible to dose phosphate in a measured and consistent way I'd prefer that, because if I'm going to dose something specifically to attempt control of a dino outbreak then I want the input to be measurable (so it can be repeatable).

12/03/2015, 10:48 PM	#2286
Tigé21v Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: St. Charles, Mo. Posts: 1,369	Potassium phosphate.Doesn't take much, a little goes a long way.

12/04/2015, 11:55 AM	#2287
csammis Mental Institution Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 547	Cool, thanks for the info. On the subject of siphoning excess dinos from the tank through a filter sock and putting the water back: I tried this approach the other day but it did not work out well. The filter sock, a 200 micron BRS felt sock, didn't capture all of the dinos and the water was full of brown strands. Is that supposed to be normal? It looks like a lot of matter to put back in the tank so I ended up replacing the removed water with new saltwater.

12/04/2015, 01:51 PM	#2289
DNA Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Iceland Posts: 1,516	What is the relationship between Cyanobacteria and Dinoflagellates? Most of us have them both. I had already found a way to see the Cyano strands in the water column using extremely bright light and a dark background. There is a lot of it in there during the day so I tried a new method last weekend. I filled my bathtub with tank water and let the water settle there for three days. The purple cyano was clearly seen against the white tub and some of it got left behind after it got drained.

12/04/2015, 02:13 PM	#2290
Fish Keeper82 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 691	I too had both Cyano and Dinos. I contribute the initial bloom of cyano to Selcon since I was adding that to fish food often( much too often like every day). I used red slime remover to rid the cyano..... that's when my Dinos really took hold and covers a thin slime everywhere. You have to look closely to see it but its every where and only bad in two spots on the sand floor. During both these blooms PO4 and Nitrates are extremely low. The lower they went gradually Dinos got worse. Now Dinos seems to be at a stopping point in terms of growth. Don't get worse or better just stays the same. I'm going to up the feeding and see if other algae will out compete the Dinos.

12/04/2015, 10:05 PM	#2294
Billybatz9 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 557	Removing sandbed next week if dinos dont get any better. I feel like they love the sand. but why? Any relationship the sand that they love?

12/05/2015, 02:15 AM	#2299
DNA Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Iceland Posts: 1,516	I've changed my tank info below and suggest frequent posters here do the same or mention their dinoflagellate species on every post.