Source of Nitrogen

[[17]shawn[17]]

I should start off by saying I have been dosing potassium nitrate and potassium phosphate for some time now in my shoal grass tank without any issues.
I was looking around a online FW planted tank store and noticed they sell calcium nitrate and magnesium nitrate.
Now I'm wondering if it would be "safer" to switch my source of nitrogen to one of these and reduce the amount of potassium going into the tank. Thoughts anyone?

[Michael Hoaster]

Plants like all of those things. Maybe you should combine them all. Or, you could try them individually, one at a time. To me the biggest surprise is potassium phosphate. You must be going fishless.

I'd be curious what you learn from this. Please do share!

[[17]shawn[17]]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

Plants like all of those things. Maybe you should combine them all. Or, you could try them individually, one at a time. To me the biggest surprise is potassium phosphate. You must be going fishless.

I'd be curious what you learn from this. Please do share!

yes the tank is fishless its a 5gal nano with sexy shrimp, I dose 2ml/day of my solution and regularly test around 60ppb phosphorous

I'm leaning towards magnesium nitrate, I have about 3 test kits in my "spare box" so ill have lots of tests to keep track of my levels

[[17]shawn[17]]

I have done a lot of research on in-vitro culture of marine aquatic plants, particularly Halodule. It turns out when growing in-vitro the prefered N source is Glutamic Acid! I'm going to be placing an order with a biotech company shortly... This will definitely be on my list to experiment with, in the meantime potassium nitrate for now, shipping was way too much to Canada to justify switching to calcium Nigrate.

[Michael Hoaster]

It's great to hear someone else is delving into seagrass!

I tried glutamic acid in my previous seagrass tank. I bought them as capsules in a vitamin store. I never was able to conclude for sure they helped. I pushed the capsules into the sand bed, like a plant tab.

I later read that seagrass prefer to uptake ammonia through their leaves, and phosphate through their roots. This lead me to dose ammonia into the water column and I found a phosphate-heavy plant tab to push into the sand. Ammonia worked very well, but it's easy to over do it and get algae. The phosphate-heavy plant tab was inconclusive.


My best outcomes happened using CO2 injection and ammonia dosing. It's tough to know for sure what works with manatee grass, with it's slow growth. In my current manatee grass tank, I put a lot of dirt from my yard in the sand bed. I'm hoping a more natural approach will prove fruitful. So far, so good, but it's still too soon to tell.

Right now, in my very young tank, I'm trying to keep water column nutrient levels lower, to curb unwanted algae, while the grasses get what they need from the substrate. Once my tank matures a bit more, I'll fire up the CO2 and ammonia.

Best of luck with your research Shawn! I'll be curious to hear your results!

[Subsea]

Shawn,
Kudoes to you on your research. When I had Gracilaria Parvispora analyzed as a human cuisine, Red Ogo, I was very surprised as to how much potassium was in seaweed.

N at 2.59%
P at 0.082%
K at 13.58%
Ca at 0.565%
Mg at 1.163%
S at 4.81%
Zn at 139ppm
Fe at 107ppm
Mn at 20ppm
Cu at 7ppm

[Subsea]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

It's great to hear someone else is delving into seagrass!

I tried glutamic acid in my previous seagrass tank. I bought them as capsules in a vitamin store. I never was able to conclude for sure they helped. I pushed the capsules into the sand bed, like a plant tab.

I later read that seagrass prefer to uptake ammonia through their leaves, and phosphate through their roots. This lead me to dose ammonia into the water column and I found a phosphate-heavy plant tab to push into the sand. Ammonia worked very well, but it's easy to over do it and get algae. The phosphate-heavy plant tab was inconclusive.


My best outcomes happened using CO2 injection and ammonia dosing. It's tough to know for sure what works with manatee grass, with it's slow growth. In my current manatee grass tank, I put a lot of dirt from my yard in the sand bed. I'm hoping a more natural approach will prove fruitful. So far, so good, but it's still too soon to tell.

Right now, in my very young tank, I'm trying to keep water column nutrient levels lower, to curb unwanted algae, while the grasses get what they need from the substrate. Once my tank matures a bit more, I'll fire up the CO2 and ammonia.

Best of luck with your research Shawn! I'll be curious to hear your results!

Michael,
I recently read an aquaculture news release in which a retired “agri life” scientist from TEXAS A&M scolded fish farmers for throwing carbon as a food source into the water. Instead pump carbon dioxide into the water to grow glucose, as an algae to feed fish & shrimp grown in aquaculture.

IMO, the combination of carbon dioxide injection and ammonia dosing is
“mariculture on steroids”.

[[17]shawn[17]]

that is surprisingly high, makes me feel better about possibly not over doing it!

Originally Posted by Subsea

Shawn,
Kudoes to you on your research. When I had Gracilaria Parvispora analyzed as a human cuisine, Red Ogo, I was very surprised as to how much potassium was in seaweed.

N at 2.59%
P at 0.082%
K at 13.58%
Ca at 0.565%
Mg at 1.163%
S at 4.81%
Zn at 139ppm
Fe at 107ppm
Mn at 20ppm
Cu at 7ppm

[[17]shawn[17]]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

It's great to hear someone else is delving into seagrass!

I tried glutamic acid in my previous seagrass tank. I bought them as capsules in a vitamin store. I never was able to conclude for sure they helped. I pushed the capsules into the sand bed, like a plant tab.

I later read that seagrass prefer to uptake ammonia through their leaves, and phosphate through their roots. This lead me to dose ammonia into the water column and I found a phosphate-heavy plant tab to push into the sand. Ammonia worked very well, but it's easy to over do it and get algae. The phosphate-heavy plant tab was inconclusive.


My best outcomes happened using CO2 injection and ammonia dosing. It's tough to know for sure what works with manatee grass, with it's slow growth. In my current manatee grass tank, I put a lot of dirt from my yard in the sand bed. I'm hoping a more natural approach will prove fruitful. So far, so good, but it's still too soon to tell.

Right now, in my very young tank, I'm trying to keep water column nutrient levels lower, to curb unwanted algae, while the grasses get what they need from the substrate. Once my tank matures a bit more, I'll fire up the CO2 and ammonia.

Best of luck with your research Shawn! I'll be curious to hear your results!

I find see grass is just the challenge I'm needing lately

100% I agree my best results thus far have been from co2 injection and N dosing much like FW. im also dosing phosphate which is being consumed... I have very little algae growing so I assume its being consumed by the grass.

every 2 months I break root tabs into quarters and push them into the sand in a grid pattern.

I've also started playing with Fe dosing when ever I notice my N is a bit high (usually above 10ppm)

im beginning to note 2 things with keeping grasses, they much prefer an older sand bed which has anaerobes established, and its extremely hard to gauge the effect of any changes made there are just too many variables hence my interest in trying some In-vitro culture

[Subsea]

Shawn,
Your signature quote is spot on. Interesting deduction on assuming iron deficiency limiting growth and thereby increasing nitrogen. I am not so experienced with sea grasses but I am quite experienced with seaweeds, macro algae. From my experience with both red & green macro when iron limited, I see it first in drab & faded colors, then in reduced growth rate, which would then effect nitrogen levels in the tank but I am not sure which happens in what sequence because I don’t test.


I posted this today on a PaulB thread on another hobby forum and had to laugh at myself, but I didn’t laugh when it happened. My only attempt at sea grass tanks was ten years ago in a 150G new build with 1000W MH at 6500 kelvin. Instead of muck from the marsh or dirt from the garden, I used peat moss from the garden center. Because I underestimated the buoyancy of peat moss. Using a small plastic laundry bag lined with. nylon window screen, I added a 3” layer of dry peat moss covered with nylon screen then buried under 8” of aroggonite. When tank was being filled with water, I watched the right 2’ of 4’ tank lift up, then turn upside down allowing peat moss to inundate tank. It was a mess, I will not soon forgot.

[[17]shawn[17]]

Originally Posted by Subsea

Shawn,
Your signature quote is spot on. Interesting deduction on assuming iron deficiency limiting growth and thereby increasing nitrogen. I am not so experienced with sea grasses but I am quite experienced with seaweeds, macro algae. From my experience with both red & green macro when iron limited, I see it first in drab & faded colors, then in reduced growth rate, which would then effect nitrogen levels in the tank but I am not sure which happens in what sequence because I don’t test.


I posted this today on a PaulB thread on another hobby forum and had to laugh at myself, but I didn’t laugh when it happened. My only attempt at sea grass tanks was ten years ago in a 150G new build with 1000W MH at 6500 kelvin. Instead of muck from the marsh or dirt from the garden, I used peat moss from the garden center. Because I underestimated the buoyancy of peat moss. Using a small plastic laundry bag lined with. nylon window screen, I added a 3” layer of dry peat moss covered with nylon screen then buried under 8” of aroggonite. When tank was being filled with water, I watched the right 2’ of 4’ tank lift up, then turn upside down allowing peat moss to inundate tank. It was a mess, I will not soon forgot.

Hahaha oh no! Sounds like a very peaty mess! I would love to set up another tank and add a base later of organics and soil... Unfortunately I just set up a 20long a few months ago which I plan on adding grasses to also and I don't feel like removing the sand now lol

I'm curious do you have a thread going for your macro greenhouse?

[Subsea]

Macro greenhouse was shut down five years ago when electric bill hit $1000. I am presently operating a 400G pilot system consisting of three 150G Rubbermade tanks buried in ground for geothermal exchange. I replaced live stock with winter hardy critters like amphipods, copepods, green mollies, sheepshead minnows, peppermint shrimp, grass shrimp, Caulerpa Prolifera & Ulva, when water temperatur gets into the 50’s, I use well water from 1000’ deep at 78 degrees thru poly tubing to prevent cold damage. I have brought this system thru one winter and one summer and am fine tuning operations to sell live food to marine carnivores.

No threads just yet.