Corals dying fast - All parameters look good??

dougs280z · 01/02/2018, 04:43 PM

Over the past couple weeks, my corals (mushrooms/frogspon/leather) have been dying off quickly. So far, Ive tested ammonia, nitrates, ph, ka, and phosphates and all have been well within limits. Temperature is about 75, and my salinity is ~1.023. I've been doing water changes with the same water (RO system from home) and nothing has seemed to fix it. The only other thing I haven't checked for is Copper, but I'm not sure how it would be getting in to the tank unless the RO system is not working. Does anyone have any other things I should check? I'm going to purchase a copper test kit soon but figured I'd check with everyone else first to see if there is any other advice. Thanks.

- Also, I have a sump with skimmer and lots of live rock and run penguin 200 filter with charcoal

nereefpat · 01/02/2018, 04:57 PM

How long have you had the corals?

Temp at 75 is a little low, but probably not catastrophic. 78 would be better.

Specific gravity is too low for a reef. Should be 1.026. How are you measuring? Hydrometer or refractometer, and has is been calibrated?

Well within limits doesn't tell us much as far as test results. What are the actual values?

Lighting?

Uncle99 · 01/02/2018, 05:41 PM

what does dying look like....shrinking....detaching....?

dougs280z · 01/02/2018, 08:05 PM

Ive had the mushrooms for a while, probably 2-3 years now, the rest of them have been a year or more. Lighting is LED, but hasn't changed over the past year. I have both a hydrometer and refractometer and both are reading about the same. I think i gradually lowered the specific gravity to help reduce some green algae outbreaks last year, but again, nothing over the past couple of months has changed. The "well within limits" - The amonia/nitrates/nitrites/phosphate all read 0 according to the color chart. I think the PH was about 8.2.

Also, they are basically just dissappearing. Shrinking/dissolving into nothing.

Sailfinner · 01/02/2018, 09:10 PM

Have you checked your magnisium and calcium levels, elevated levels in those can cause soft corals to burn quickly

Daddi0 · 01/02/2018, 09:23 PM

Chlorine/chloramine?

nereefpat · 01/02/2018, 09:48 PM

The zeros for nitrates and phoshates could be a problem.

What about alkalinity (KH)? Calcium too? Mg, if you have it.

If I had to guess, I'd say the corals you have need more nutrients (N and P)

Edit: oh, and raise that salinity back up

dougs280z · 01/03/2018, 06:37 AM

Thanks, I'll see if I can pick up some tests for magnesium and I never checked calcium because I didn't think it would be the issue, but perhaps it is too high like someone suggested. I am curious about the chlorine though. Is there a test for that? Thanks.

plyle02 · 01/03/2018, 06:44 AM

Pictures would help greatly, FTS, and close up shots as well

josephxsxn · 01/03/2018, 06:53 AM

If everything is dying out at once even the coralline algae I would wonder if your leaching metals into the water somehow. Examples of metal leaks can come from bad return pumps, magnet scrubbers, pennies (yes...). It just takes their seals to be broken some to start.

Xxero · 01/03/2018, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josephxsxn

If everything is dying out at once even the coralline algae I would wonder if your leaching metals into the water somehow.

This was my first thought, as well. You can purchase PolyFilter to check/remove metal contamination.

Timfish · 01/03/2018, 07:47 AM

To reitterate, it would be very helpful to have better numbers and more tank info. If you've been aggressively running some type of phosphate remover, for example, to deal with your previous algae outbreak and have cut on how much your feed your fish and/or have a very light fish load you very well could have reduced your phosphate to levels that would cause your corals to have problems. If i's 0.0 with an API it does not have the same concern level as 0.0 with Elos or Hanna.

Another possibility is the lights are staying on too long. Was the timer changed or replaced? Lights should not be on for more than 12 hours. Too much light causes an excess of O2 production from the zooxantheallae and it will burn the corals much like H2O2. But again we need more info.

ColoReefer970 · 01/03/2018, 09:55 AM

I checked twice...i don't see alkalinity anywhere either...but asking about copper?

My advice is to go read all the sticky posts

Uncle99 · 01/03/2018, 10:11 AM

You have had these for quite a while so definitely something has changed.
I agree, look for copper....copper kills....is it just these corals or anything else die.
You also say Nitrate, Phosphate, Amonnia, within limits....test kits should show 0.
Mushrooms, leathers like to have a tiny amount .03 of iodide (not iodine which is not safe).
Frogspawn you can target feed..do you do this...mushrooms don't like light but leathers love light...are they placed right.
To me, 75 is a tad low....I am 78-79......and SG for a tank with corals should be 1.026.
Are you sure your 1.023? Wrong SG is actually quite common and leads to slow deaths.
Those are all the things I can think of.....good luck.....lets us know what you find..

Uncle99 · 01/03/2018, 10:20 AM

Btw...you say think PH 8.2 which is fine....but what's think? You know right?
Cause PH in the 7's would be acidic and a problem..

So let's define:
Temp 78-79
1.026 or 35ppt (NSW)
PH 8.0 - 8.4
Calcium 400-460
Alk 8-12
Magnisium 1320-1360
Phosphate 0
Nitrate 0
Ammonia 0
Copper 0

sde1500 · 01/03/2018, 12:08 PM

Any sign of magnets rusting possibly?

reefwiser · 01/03/2018, 12:17 PM

Take apart each pump in your system and check for rust.

HBtank · 01/03/2018, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle99

Btw...you say think PH 8.2 which is fine....but what's think? You know right?
Cause PH in the 7's would be acidic and a problem..

So let's define:
Temp 78-79
1.026 or 35ppt (NSW)
PH 8.0 - 8.4
Calcium 400-460
Alk 8-12
Magnisium 1320-1360
Phosphate 0
Nitrate 0
Ammonia 0
Copper 0

7.0 is neutral and many healthy tanks in homes drop as low as 7.6-7.8 at night due to indoor CO2 levels. Not ideal for growth, but not going to kill anything.

Uncle99 · 01/03/2018, 04:48 PM

Agreed, but his corals are not growing, he calls it death..

dougs280z · 01/23/2018, 11:33 AM

Thanks everyone. I haven't been receiving notifications of new posts, but I have tried a few other things without anything working as of yet. I have basically lost all my corals, and the coraline algae is fading as well. I have checked for chlorine recently as well and the test was negative. I purchased carbon pads to try and remove metals if there were any, but nothing changed with it either. I am curious about the pumps possibly having a crack and leaching into the water. I am going to do a deep clean soon and see if I can remove all pumps and filters etc and go over them or replace them. I'll look into the polyfilter as well. Thanks again.

Uncle99 · 01/23/2018, 01:11 PM

That's not good news, sorry for your loses.
just a thought, what type of lighting are you using?

dougs280z · 01/23/2018, 01:53 PM

I'm using an LED style light. But I've noticed no differences with it on/off and I definitely think it's something in the water.

What other metals cause issues like this other than copper?

Tripod1404 · 01/23/2018, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougs280z

I'm using an LED style light. But I've noticed no differences with it on/off and I definitely think it's something in the water.

What other metals cause issues like this other than copper?

Are you using gfo or other another type of phosphate absorbing media?

thegrun · 01/23/2018, 03:16 PM

What jumps right out at me is your low salinity, why are you running it so low? It should be at least at 1.025, preferably 1.026. I would top off with 1.026 saltwater until your salinity is up to 1.026. How are you measuring your salinity?

dougs280z · 01/24/2018, 06:47 AM

I'm actually not sure why I had the salinity that low. I believe I've always had it around the 1.023-1.024 numbers. I've got it back up to 1.025 as of now.

Update - I removed pumps yesterday and found two pumps not working - one small powerhead in the main tank, and one powerhead (which I though I actually shut off) in the sump. The one in the sump was connected to my uv sterilizer that quit working last year and I haven't replaced it yet. That pump actually shocked me pretty good when i removed it so I think I found my problem. I do have a grounding probe so I don't know if the stray voltage was an issue as I haven't gotten shocked in the actual tank, but once I removed it from the tank I got a good jolt which leads me to believe if voltage is getting out, then metal could be getting into the tank. I'm going to do a large water change today and hopefully start seeing an improvement. Thanks again.

01/02/2018, 04:43 PM	#1
dougs280z Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 13	Corals dying fast - All parameters look good?? Over the past couple weeks, my corals (mushrooms/frogspon/leather) have been dying off quickly. So far, Ive tested ammonia, nitrates, ph, ka, and phosphates and all have been well within limits. Temperature is about 75, and my salinity is ~1.023. I've been doing water changes with the same water (RO system from home) and nothing has seemed to fix it. The only other thing I haven't checked for is Copper, but I'm not sure how it would be getting in to the tank unless the RO system is not working. Does anyone have any other things I should check? I'm going to purchase a copper test kit soon but figured I'd check with everyone else first to see if there is any other advice. Thanks. - Also, I have a sump with skimmer and lots of live rock and run penguin 200 filter with charcoal

01/02/2018, 04:57 PM	#2
nereefpat Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Central Nebraska Posts: 3,190	How long have you had the corals? Temp at 75 is a little low, but probably not catastrophic. 78 would be better. Specific gravity is too low for a reef. Should be 1.026. How are you measuring? Hydrometer or refractometer, and has is been calibrated? Well within limits doesn't tell us much as far as test results. What are the actual values? Lighting? __________________ Pat Current Tank Info: 125 in-wall , 40b sump. 6 bulb T5. ASM G2 skimmer. LPS and leathers

01/02/2018, 09:23 PM	#6
Daddi0 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Redwood City Posts: 1,354	Chlorine/chloramine? __________________ 2x 65g displays with a 30g cryptic refugium and 30g sump - 55g reef 30g Bio-cube reef - I.M. 30g reef - 45g freshwater

01/02/2018, 09:48 PM	#7
nereefpat Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Central Nebraska Posts: 3,190	The zeros for nitrates and phoshates could be a problem. What about alkalinity (KH)? Calcium too? Mg, if you have it. If I had to guess, I'd say the corals you have need more nutrients (N and P) Edit: oh, and raise that salinity back up __________________ Pat Current Tank Info: 125 in-wall , 40b sump. 6 bulb T5. ASM G2 skimmer. LPS and leathers

01/03/2018, 06:44 AM	#9
plyle02 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Lake Helen, FL Posts: 5,526	Pictures would help greatly, FTS, and close up shots as well __________________ Perry "Anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die" ~Buddha~ Current Tank Info: 50 Gallon AIO Cube, Aquamaxx WS-1 Skimmer, LED/ Hybrid 4x24 watt t5

01/02/2018, 05:41 PM	#3
Uncle99 Crab Free Zone Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,906	what does dying look like....shrinking....detaching....?

01/02/2018, 08:05 PM	#4
dougs280z Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 13	Ive had the mushrooms for a while, probably 2-3 years now, the rest of them have been a year or more. Lighting is LED, but hasn't changed over the past year. I have both a hydrometer and refractometer and both are reading about the same. I think i gradually lowered the specific gravity to help reduce some green algae outbreaks last year, but again, nothing over the past couple of months has changed. The "well within limits" - The amonia/nitrates/nitrites/phosphate all read 0 according to the color chart. I think the PH was about 8.2. Also, they are basically just dissappearing. Shrinking/dissolving into nothing.

01/02/2018, 09:10 PM	#5
Sailfinner Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 11	Have you checked your magnisium and calcium levels, elevated levels in those can cause soft corals to burn quickly

01/03/2018, 06:37 AM	#8
dougs280z Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 13	Thanks, I'll see if I can pick up some tests for magnesium and I never checked calcium because I didn't think it would be the issue, but perhaps it is too high like someone suggested. I am curious about the chlorine though. Is there a test for that? Thanks.

01/03/2018, 06:53 AM	#10
josephxsxn Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: DTW, Michigan Posts: 122	If everything is dying out at once even the coralline algae I would wonder if your leaching metals into the water somehow. Examples of metal leaks can come from bad return pumps, magnet scrubbers, pennies (yes...). It just takes their seals to be broken some to start.

01/03/2018, 07:47 AM	#12
Timfish Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,985	To reitterate, it would be very helpful to have better numbers and more tank info. If you've been aggressively running some type of phosphate remover, for example, to deal with your previous algae outbreak and have cut on how much your feed your fish and/or have a very light fish load you very well could have reduced your phosphate to levels that would cause your corals to have problems. If i's 0.0 with an API it does not have the same concern level as 0.0 with Elos or Hanna. Another possibility is the lights are staying on too long. Was the timer changed or replaced? Lights should not be on for more than 12 hours. Too much light causes an excess of O2 production from the zooxantheallae and it will burn the corals much like H2O2. But again we need more info. __________________ "Our crystal clear aquaria come nowhere close to the nutrient loads that swirl around natural reefs" Charles Delbeek

01/03/2018, 09:55 AM	#13
ColoReefer970 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Earth Posts: 88	I checked twice...i don't see alkalinity anywhere either...but asking about copper? My advice is to go read all the sticky posts

01/03/2018, 10:11 AM	#14
Uncle99 Crab Free Zone Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,906	You have had these for quite a while so definitely something has changed. I agree, look for copper....copper kills....is it just these corals or anything else die. You also say Nitrate, Phosphate, Amonnia, within limits....test kits should show 0. Mushrooms, leathers like to have a tiny amount .03 of iodide (not iodine which is not safe). Frogspawn you can target feed..do you do this...mushrooms don't like light but leathers love light...are they placed right. To me, 75 is a tad low....I am 78-79......and SG for a tank with corals should be 1.026. Are you sure your 1.023? Wrong SG is actually quite common and leads to slow deaths. Those are all the things I can think of.....good luck.....lets us know what you find..

01/03/2018, 10:20 AM	#15
Uncle99 Crab Free Zone Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,906	Btw...you say think PH 8.2 which is fine....but what's think? You know right? Cause PH in the 7's would be acidic and a problem.. So let's define: Temp 78-79 1.026 or 35ppt (NSW) PH 8.0 - 8.4 Calcium 400-460 Alk 8-12 Magnisium 1320-1360 Phosphate 0 Nitrate 0 Ammonia 0 Copper 0

01/03/2018, 12:08 PM	#16
sde1500 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Glocester, RI Posts: 3,336	Any sign of magnets rusting possibly? __________________ My build thread: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2548422 Current Tank Info: 65 gallon mixed reef, Eshopps sump and HOB overflow, RO-110int skimmer, Reefbreeder 32" photons V1.

01/03/2018, 12:17 PM	#17
reefwiser Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Louisville,Kentucky Posts: 1,208	Take apart each pump in your system and check for rust. __________________ President Louisville Marine Aquarium Society. http://www.lmas.org/ The 3rd Annual Frag swap will be held September 23rd,2017 11 am till 3pm Saint Thomas Fellowship hall,9616 Westport Road,Louisvi

01/03/2018, 04:48 PM	#19
Uncle99 Crab Free Zone Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,906	Agreed, but his corals are not growing, he calls it death..

01/23/2018, 11:33 AM	#20
dougs280z Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 13	Thanks everyone. I haven't been receiving notifications of new posts, but I have tried a few other things without anything working as of yet. I have basically lost all my corals, and the coraline algae is fading as well. I have checked for chlorine recently as well and the test was negative. I purchased carbon pads to try and remove metals if there were any, but nothing changed with it either. I am curious about the pumps possibly having a crack and leaching into the water. I am going to do a deep clean soon and see if I can remove all pumps and filters etc and go over them or replace them. I'll look into the polyfilter as well. Thanks again.

01/23/2018, 01:11 PM	#21
Uncle99 Crab Free Zone Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,906	That's not good news, sorry for your loses. just a thought, what type of lighting are you using?

01/23/2018, 01:53 PM	#22
dougs280z Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 13	I'm using an LED style light. But I've noticed no differences with it on/off and I definitely think it's something in the water. What other metals cause issues like this other than copper?

01/23/2018, 03:16 PM	#24
thegrun Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Garden Grove, Ca Posts: 17,023	What jumps right out at me is your low salinity, why are you running it so low? It should be at least at 1.025, preferably 1.026. I would top off with 1.026 saltwater until your salinity is up to 1.026. How are you measuring your salinity?

01/24/2018, 06:47 AM	#25
dougs280z Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 13	I'm actually not sure why I had the salinity that low. I believe I've always had it around the 1.023-1.024 numbers. I've got it back up to 1.025 as of now. Update - I removed pumps yesterday and found two pumps not working - one small powerhead in the main tank, and one powerhead (which I though I actually shut off) in the sump. The one in the sump was connected to my uv sterilizer that quit working last year and I haven't replaced it yet. That pump actually shocked me pretty good when i removed it so I think I found my problem. I do have a grounding probe so I don't know if the stray voltage was an issue as I haven't gotten shocked in the actual tank, but once I removed it from the tank I got a good jolt which leads me to believe if voltage is getting out, then metal could be getting into the tank. I'm going to do a large water change today and hopefully start seeing an improvement. Thanks again.