GFO (PhosBan) - Just How Good Is It?

[jdieck]

Originally posted by JetCat USA
Jose

it's ±4% of the reading is how the Hannah tech explained it to me

It is actually +/- .04 mg/lt or +/-4% whichever is higher.
In other words if you are reading below 1 mg/lt the 0.04 mg/lt apply
http://www.hannainst.co.uk/acatalog/HI93713235.pdf

[Serioussnaps]

Originally posted by sabbath
Well I replaced my GFO two day's ago. It has stopped lowering it as well. I have a API test kit. It is reading near zero now but not fully zero. Does this mean it is time to change this stuff. I have a clam so I am nervous to put too much iron in the DT. Does this mean this stuff is spent in two days?

No, it means your API test kit is worthless as is salifert. The only way to test PO4 accurately is with one of the Hannas he is using or something at a lab that most people dont have access to. If your API kit is showing phosphates you have TONS of them. The more you have the faster the media exhausts. I change mine every three weeks.

[jdieck]

During my tests, with a 1 ppm calibrated sample I read 0.9 with a 0.06 sample I read 0.02 and with a 0.02 sample ir read 0 but all devices are different. If you get a calibrated sample and the means to properly dilute it you can draw a correction curve particular for your device. I did it just to check the device but I deem in unnecessary just for aquarium testing.

[JetCat USA]

Jose

you have the LR version????
i emailed back and forth with one of the Hanna Tech's for several weeks before i got my unit and like he told me beforehand, the reagent its self prevents a zero reading. a 0.01 will be as low as the tester will read with the reagent added to a 0.00ppm sample that was zeroed before testing. he told me if you get a 0.00 it's an error and the unit should blink the 0.00 and just for testing if i zero the unit and then hit direct read i do get 0.00 and it blinks.

if i read your post right, you get 0.00 test readings with reagent added??

also do you get a 0.00 blinking when you do get the zeros?

[JetCat USA]

2000hrs 14 Aug 2007
[img]http://i15.*******.com/6c6k9as.jpg[/img]

back to the 0.08 again

at lights out the tank does look a good bit better then last night, the GHA has all turned brown and falling off the rocks and back glass, water is clear and the coralline is showing noticeable growth, skimmer is still pulling more then normal and it's the color of the dead GHA in the tank.

[sabbath]

It is interesting to see how the dieing GHA is trying to raise it up. And the GFO is pulling it back down. I'm REALLY sold on GFO's after this test. The #'s may not be perfect but still tells a great story.

[jdieck]

Originally posted by JetCat USA
Jose

you have the LR version????
i emailed back and forth with one of the Hanna Tech's for several weeks before i got my unit and like he told me beforehand, the reagent its self prevents a zero reading. a 0.01 will be as low as the tester will read with the reagent added to a 0.00ppm sample that was zeroed before testing. he told me if you get a 0.00 it's an error and the unit should blink the 0.00 and just for testing if i zero the unit and then hit direct read i do get 0.00 and it blinks.

if i read your post right, you get 0.00 test readings with reagent added??

also do you get a 0.00 blinking when you do get the zeros?

Yes I get 0.00 with the reagent added. In other words the transmitance of light is the same as when the sample was zeroed.
As far as I undurstand there are two cases were you get zeroes blinking one is that you get -0.0- when trying to zero a sample before adding the reagent and the zero cal failed. This is usually when there is too much noise on the sample like turbidity or moving suspended particles.
The second case you will bet a blinking 0.00 when the sample added with the reagent will have higher transmitance (more transparent to light) than when the zero was calibrated.
This could happen by example when you have a turbid sample when zeroing and it has settled when testing with the reagent.

In any case try testing some RO/DI water just insure that the vial is perfectly clean (I try not to touch it with my fingers), calibrate to zero then add the reagent, mix for 2-1/2 minutes and then press timer. See what you get.
IMO if the minimum you get with the reagent added is 0.01 it means that the reagent reduces transmittance which shall never happen if the reagent is OK and it should dissolve completely, otherwise the reagent is adding more innacuracy at any reading which shall not happen. In addition the timer function besides allowing any potential coloring reaction to ocurr, it also provides time for any undissolved reagent to settle.
Try the test see if you get the blinking, I did not. That is how I insured that the water used for diluting the samples was correlated to the different tests.

[JetCat USA]

i have tested RO/DI water with a TDS of 0 and it's 0.01 with the reagent added to the sample. the tech guy i spoke with was out of the Rhode Island office and said that was what I'd get before i ordered it and that's what i get. on mine i can't read before zeroing, if you try to read a sample it will say ZERO on the screen.

my unit was MFGd 04/27/07, my reagents are 'Exp 05/2010' so i don't think they are a problem, especially with me being told they'd read 0.01 beforehand and that's what they read.

when testing i add the reagent, insert the plastic cap, screw on the cover lid and press the timer button, i swirl it for the first min and all the reagent is completely dissolved, i also use a lint free cotton cloth to make sure the vile is cleaned of any prints/water spots/etc....while swirling it and then let it sit in the tester for the last 2 min.

[JetCat USA]

Oh BTW -0.0- on my unit is an indication calibration is complete and zeroed.

[jdieck]

Originally posted by JetCat USA
Oh BTW -0.0- on my unit is an indication calibration is complete and zeroed.

That is right as far as it is not flashing.

[jdieck]

Originally posted by JetCat USA
Oh BTW -0.0- on my unit is an indication calibration is complete and zeroed.

That is right as far as it is not flashing.

This is what I do:

Rinse the cuvet with sample.

Fill the cuvet with sample (to the mark)

Insert the cuvet and press Zero SIP flashes then stops at -0.0-

Remove the cuvet and add the reagent, swirl gently for two mintes and reinsert the cuvet.

Preass Timer and the countdown begins at 3 minutes. at the end of the coundown SIP blinks again until the measurement apears.

As I mentioned before at those low ranges the +/-0.04 mg/lt accuracy will be different in different devices. Mine just happens not to read 0.01 when using a phosphate free sample. Others may read 0.04 and still be zero.
In any case I think that for our purposes that accuracy is better than any chemical test kit I have seen so far.

[JetCat USA]

Seams the only differences there is the 2 min you shake before hitting the count down timer, but I've hit the timer an extra time in a row to see if the sample got a different reading the longer it sat and it didn't.

[JetCat USA]

0230hrs 15 Aug 2007 holding steady at 0.08, looking like it's time to swap the media again

[boxfishpooalot]

how about an update on the alkalinity and a new picture of the tanks hair algae

Also if you like testing, try and put 1 rock in a bucket to see how much Po4 it releases over a day or so, just make sure its areated with an air bubbler. Now that would be cool. This could also prove thats its the rocks with the Po4 in your tank also.

[JetCat USA]

Originally posted by boxfishpooalot
how about an update on the alkalinity and a new picture of the tanks hair algae

Also if you like testing, try and put 1 rock in a bucket to see how much Po4 it releases over a day or so, just make sure its areated with an air bubbler. Now that would be cool. This could also prove thats its the rocks with the Po4 in your tank also.

an air bubbler? they still make those?? i haven't had one of those around one of my systems in.............i can't even remember when. I'll get the Alk test and the new pic after the morning school rush and the lights in the system turn on.

[boxfishpooalot]

yes i have about 5 air bubblers lying around..... You just need to break the surface of the water or the rock will use up all O2 in the water and your house may reek of H2S if you leave it overnight. Sorta like what happens when the power goes out. A small powerhead works too. I actually kept my fish alive with live rock and an air bubbler in a 20 gallon rubbermaid for 2 weeks on one of those nothin else...

Cant wait for the update!

[JetCat USA]

Naa, tanks and rock can go for days on end with no water movement, just ask the 3 or 4 hurricanes that have came through my neck of the woods the past few yrs.

[kay-bee19]

Originally posted by JetCat USA
0230hrs 15 Aug 2007 holding steady at 0.08, looking like it's time to swap the media again

Very interesting thread!

As I understand you're using 2 cups of phosban for your 225gal tank or roughly 1 cup of Phosban per 100gal tank volume? If so, does that correspond to TLF's recommended dosage of 50g per 50gal of tank volume? And is the 150g PhosBan container equivalent to 1 cup? (sorry my conversion skills aren't up to par!). I'm just trying to figure out if you're using the recommended amount or more than the recommended amount.

Also, are additional phosphates entering the tank via food during this trial? For example, are the fish still being fed "5-6 times per day a varied diet of just about every type of food offered in the way of flake/cyclop-eeze/every type of frozen food/golden pearls/etc........"?

[JetCat USA]

0930hrs 15 Aug 2007 0.05ppm.


kay-bee19

i buy PhosBan in a 1200g bucket so i can't tell you exactly how much it weights per cup, i have a 1/4 cup measuring cup inside the bucket i use to fill my reactors. 2 cups fills a 150 size reactor about 3/4 full. i can't say if it's more or less the TLFs recommends, there are no corals in this system currently so it didn't matter how quickly the levels dropped IMO.

Also, Of Course i still feed them, a tangs gotta eat , i have tried to cut back some during the testings which they aren't to happy with at all, I've been bitten just about every time I've reached in to take the test sample.

i just took the pics of the tank and will post them as soon as i downsize them and upload to a server.

[JetCat USA]

the test results as posted above
[img]http://i15.*******.com/53ykf90.jpg[/img]

The Back Glass
[img]http://i17.*******.com/639bewg.jpg[/img]

Some of the rock that was covered in GHA too, coralline has started to grow back on it quiet nicely the past several days.
[img]http://i9.*******.com/5xdj9ex.jpg[/img]

Coralline growth on the bottom glass that was just small dots when this test was started.
[img]http://i12.*******.com/6hdxg7m.jpg[/img]

[einsteins]

I have had great results with Phospure from Dr. Fosters and Smith. It is their own brand but GFO is GFO and Phospure is way cheaper than Phosban or Rowa.
It works out about the same as the bulk pricing that 2 part solutions sells but you dont have to buy in bulk.

I would highly recomend it!

Just a thought for those who dont want to do bulk GFO to get better pricing.

einsteins

[JetCat USA]

2030hrs and the PO4 is still ever so slowly dropping, 0.04

tested Alk and it's dropped roughly 0.3 dKH but I'd like to think that was from the increased coralline growth over the past few days and not related to the GFO pulling it out.

[gary faulkner]

Originally posted by einsteins
I have had great results with Phospure from Dr. Fosters and Smith. It is their own brand but GFO is GFO and Phospure is way cheaper than Phosban or Rowa.
It works out about the same as the bulk pricing that 2 part solutions sells but you dont have to buy in bulk.

I would highly recomend it!

Just a thought for those who dont want to do bulk GFO to get better pricing.

einsteins

I have recently been using this also. Do you run the recommended amout of 1 TBL / 20 Gal reef? I have noticed without testing, that my SPS colors are slowly moving from brown to their actual colors. I also run it in a canister filter with some carbon.

Great thread.

[JetCat USA]

0700hrs 16 Aug 2007, PO4 levels 0.02 gonna unplug the reactor again and see how quickly the climb over the next few hours. as always I've got to much month at the end of the $$$ so it looks like the tank isn't gonna get taken down this week (or maybe even next) so i pulled the sulfur denitrator off one of my reefs and stuck it on this tank last night to see if dropping the NO3 levels on down will make as big a difference. the levels aren't excessively high considering the bio-load in the system.

[KurtsReef]

Originally posted by JetCat USA

i took a PhosBan 150 reactor and added 2 cups of PhosBan to it and slowly cracked open the valve till a mini-jet400 started to fluidized the media.

I was just reading a thread where Marc (Melev) was stating a few tablespoons of media in the reactor would suffice. Having not received mine yet, found that interesting as if I had not read that or instructions that may or may not come with the unit I would have wanted to fill it up.

Two cups of media brings you to what level on the reactor? I understand you want movement in the media for optimal operation...(Did I miss the photos of the reactor in action?)