First coral...is he sick?

austinocean · 03/24/2010, 06:03 PM

We just got our first tank and coral - the leather stool doesn't seem to be doing well, but we're not sure if he isn't doing well or just taking a while to get used to the tank? His polyps came out on day 1 and we have not seen them since. His color doesn't seem as vibrant as it was either.

Here are our tank specs and a picture - we'd love your advice! Thank you!

72g bowfront
2 cfl lights, 1 actinic blue light (new)
charcoal, eheim filters and protein skimmer
pH 8.35, alkalinity in "normal" zone
temp 78degrees
salinity 1.016
feeding brine shrimp
2 damsels, 1 angelfish, 1 clown fish - several hermit crabs
bubble rock

the coral was near the bubble rock and we moved it 3days ago - now it is on top of the live rock, near the charcoal filter output

f350power · 03/24/2010, 06:14 PM

Mine took over a week to come out.

kingfisher62 · 03/24/2010, 06:50 PM

If your salinity is 1.016 that could be Your problem. It should be 1.024. What are you using to measure this?

kingfisher62 · 03/24/2010, 06:51 PM

BTW, what the heck is a bubble rock?

Chiefsurfer · 03/24/2010, 06:58 PM

To Reef Central

I read it so fast, I just assumed that he said rubble, and thats what I think he meant.

First, how long has the tank been set up before you got the leather?

2nd, if your salinity is ACTUALLY 1.016, that's horrible. It has to be at least 1.023, preferably 1.025-1.026. That could really poorly affect his health. ALSO, don't let it raise too fast. I would do maybe 2-3 5% WC's with 1.020 water for like 2 days, to bring it up a LITTLE quickly, then make 1.026 water, and top off with that for a few days until our SG is at the correct point.

Posidion · 03/24/2010, 06:58 PM

my recomendation is to begin raising your salinity if it is indeed 1.016 that is way too low. Proper range for most inverts is 1.023 t0 1.025. do a few gallon water change and increase the salinity of the replacement water to around 1.023 untill you get where you need to be. space theese out a little say mabey once in the morning then again around dinner time if you try to raise it too quickly you could do more harm than good.

Reefbuoy · 03/24/2010, 06:59 PM

Start topping off your tank with 1.016 salt water until your tank gradually gets up to 1.024. Are you using a refractometer?

austinocean · 03/25/2010, 10:27 AM

Thank you all very much - using a seatest hydrometer. I will check it again tonight. If I top off water that is 1.016 with water that is 1.016, that won't make the level come up, will it?

Is there a better way to measure it more accurately?

austinocean · 03/25/2010, 10:28 AM

Oh... and I'm still learning terminology - can't remember what the thing under the substrate is called that makes bubbles...?

Saltcity · 03/25/2010, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by austinocean

Oh... and I'm still learning terminology - can't remember what the thing under the substrate is called that makes bubbles...?

Under gravel filter???

My Toadstool has its good days and bad days as far as looks so don't be shocked when it doesn't look the same everyday. That being said, I agree with everyone else about the salinity, probably the main problem.

Best advice is to read, read, read!!! You can learn tons on ReefCentral and no question is dumb so keep asking!

w16227 · 03/25/2010, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by austinocean

Oh... and I'm still learning terminology - can't remember what the thing under the substrate is called that makes bubbles...?

Airstone?

Whatever it is-- if you mean that there is something in the tank under the sand generating bubbles -- you may want to remove it. Saltwater tanks are a lot different than freshwater. In some cases, airstones or other bubbles may be helpful (like in the case of a power outage and you need aeration), but most of the time you do not need them.

How long has the tank been set up? This is very important for us to know. Also - you have your latest water test values and how they were tested (what test kit)? "alkalinity in "normal" zone" is one of those items that can mean many different things. For soft corals, lower ALK is not an issue, but for LPS and SPS, somewhat higher levels are recommended - AND they need to be fairly constant (swings can cause issues).

good luck

travis32 · 03/25/2010, 01:44 PM

Ammonia will affect corals too.

To answer your question on will topping off with 1.016 water keep salinity the same, the answer is no.

When water evaporates, salt stays in the water. Salt cannot evaporate. Only the water evaporates. So, if you top off with water that has salt in it, you will in essence be adding more salt to your existing salt water.

Think of it this way. Say you have a gallon of water with 1 teaspoon of salt in it. You boil off the water and you still will have 1 teaspoon of salt left in theory. Now, what if you add another gallon of water that also has 1 teaspoon of salt in it? Lets say you only boil off 1 gallon of water. How much salt is going to be in that 1 gallon of water. In theory it would be 2 teaspoons in 1 gallon of water. If you boiled both gallons of water, you would be left with 2 teaspoons of salt.

So, let's say in your aquarium, you have 1 gallon of evaporation a day..

Let's say for example you have 25 cups of salt in a 50 gallon aquarium. say 10 gallons of water evaporates over 10 days. You would still have 25 cups of salt in 40 gallons of water.

So, if you're topping off water every day that has salt in it, essentially you are simply increasing your salt concentrations in the aquarium.

And yes, 1.016 is way too low for salt water tanks. I'm not sure what Brackish salt levels are, but that seems to sound closer to brackish tanks than SW tanks. Either way, corals won't survive in 1.016. I'm surprised your fish are surviving. I thought SW fish needed 1.020 to 1.023 to breathe currently in salt water.

Also, I thought running airstones in Salt water would do something with the PH of the water? Either way, Saltwater looks much better without airstones.

reef_keeper · 03/25/2010, 01:50 PM

wow i never though about that... when i top off i add salt to my water so in turn I'm actually raising the salinity! Great bit of knowledge there thanks Travis.

njudson · 03/25/2010, 02:17 PM

People generally top off with RO/DI water and only use there salt mixed water for water changes

travis32 · 03/25/2010, 02:18 PM

Your welcome. If you're topping off with salt water, be sure to check your salinity. It's o.k. if you want to slowly raise it, but if you're routinely doing that, you could easily hit the 1.030 mark and not even know it.

travis32 · 03/25/2010, 03:34 PM

Yeah I guess one should clarify. If you manually remove water from a tank. e.g. not through evaporation, but through a siphon, vaccum, pump, or some other method where you're actually removing water. THEN you are removing salt and water.

It is only through evaporation that the salt remains in the existing water in the tank. Probably a good point to make.

innate1 · 03/25/2010, 04:27 PM

When you can buy a refractometer those hydrometers are usually pretty far off.

reef_keeper · 03/25/2010, 06:12 PM

pretty far? like a dangerous amount?

Ston3 · 03/25/2010, 06:26 PM

How long has the tank been running? What are the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels? These are all important factors concerning your corals wellbeing.

And to beat a dead horse, I agree with the salinity comments.

austinocean · 03/25/2010, 08:14 PM

well...tomorrow I'm off to find test kits for nitrates and ammonia, I guess... and some more salt. I'll pull the airstone out this weekend. Are all refractometers created equal? Moving the leather stool over by the protein skimmer to get some more movement seemed to help.

5h3rW1N · 04/25/2010, 04:18 PM

welcome to rc!!!

jc-reef · 04/25/2010, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innate1

When you can buy a refractometer those hydrometers are usually pretty far off.

+1

Quote:

Originally Posted by reef_keeper

pretty far? like a dangerous amount?

Like innate1 stated above, it would be a very sound investment, IMO, to use a refractrometer. I'm pretty new to the hobby myself and when I initially set up my 90g...I mixed the salt water using a hydrometer until my refractrometer was shipped to me. The hydrometer indicated my water was at 1.026 but when my refractrometer arrived, it actually was at 1.032!! None the less, I needed to reduce back down to 1.026.

Quote:

Originally Posted by austinocean

well...tomorrow I'm off to find test kits for nitrates and ammonia, I guess... and some more salt. I'll pull the airstone out this weekend. Are all refractometers created equal? Moving the leather stool over by the protein skimmer to get some more movement seemed to help.

I would guess not. I know you can get pretty good ones for $100 or less. I got mine from one of RC sponsers The Filter Guys. Is called a (Vee Gee)....recommended by a respected hobbyist. It has worked great for me!

OP...Welcome to RC!!

Lannyrx7 · 04/25/2010, 11:11 PM

The marine depot refractometer is a good little tool and I think they run from 40 to 60 bucks. They can be recalibrated manually and last. Some can get way up there in price but keep it simple is a good game plan. Once you touch a refractometer you'll never want to set eyes on a hydrometer again!
For the meantime clean your hydrometer out and test it multiple times on a flat surface. If it keeps reading 1.016.. well +1 on bringing it up.

colotl · 04/25/2010, 11:24 PM

Definetly replace your hydrometer with a refratometer and by the calibration solution.

03/24/2010, 06:50 PM	#3
kingfisher62 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: massachusetts Posts: 4,972	If your salinity is 1.016 that could be Your problem. It should be 1.024. What are you using to measure this? __________________ 55g Tank - 216W T5's Foxface, tomato clown, yellow tailed damsel, Starrie Blennie, LPS and softies 29G Biocube- 120W LED's 2 percular clown, Six line Wrasse , LPS and softies Current Tank Info: 55 gl. Reef tank ,29g biocube Reef

03/24/2010, 06:51 PM	#4
kingfisher62 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: massachusetts Posts: 4,972	BTW, what the heck is a bubble rock? __________________ 55g Tank - 216W T5's Foxface, tomato clown, yellow tailed damsel, Starrie Blennie, LPS and softies 29G Biocube- 120W LED's 2 percular clown, Six line Wrasse , LPS and softies Current Tank Info: 55 gl. Reef tank ,29g biocube Reef

03/24/2010, 06:58 PM	#5
Chiefsurfer Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Seaside Park, NJ Posts: 2,138	*To Reef Central* I read it so fast, I just assumed that he said rubble, and thats what I think he meant. First, how long has the tank been set up before you got the leather? 2nd, if your salinity is ACTUALLY 1.016, that's horrible. It has to be at least 1.023, preferably 1.025-1.026. That could really poorly affect his health. ALSO, don't let it raise too fast. I would do maybe 2-3 5% WC's with 1.020 water for like 2 days, to bring it up a LITTLE quickly, then make 1.026 water, and top off with that for a few days until our SG is at the correct point. __________________ Chief Current Tank: 20 Gallon tall, 4-bulb t5 HO, Eshopps psk75H, ac-70 fuge. So far, green clown goby, striped goby, more gorillas than I wish I had, 5 SPS frags, 3 LPS Frags, 1 Softee, Turkey Wing Clam. Plan for the future: 120 gallon 4ft glass tank. Current Tank Info: 20 gallon tall Reef Tank

03/25/2010, 04:27 PM	#17
innate1 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Austin Texas Posts: 102	When you can buy a refractometer those hydrometers are usually pretty far off. __________________ Whatever you love set yourself on fire for it and people will come just to watch you burn Current Tank Info: 75 gal reef

03/25/2010, 06:26 PM	#19
Ston3 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 330	How long has the tank been running? What are the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels? These are all important factors concerning your corals wellbeing. And to beat a dead horse, I agree with the salinity comments. __________________ \| 37g reef \| 10g diy sump \| mag 7 return \| 300gph diy overflow \| Current t5ho 96w \| Odyssea PS75 \|

03/24/2010, 06:14 PM	#2
f350power Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Fairfield/Suisun City CA Posts: 72	Mine took over a week to come out.

03/24/2010, 06:58 PM	#6
Posidion Coral Gardner Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: niagara falls (under them) Posts: 355	my recomendation is to begin raising your salinity if it is indeed 1.016 that is way too low. Proper range for most inverts is 1.023 t0 1.025. do a few gallon water change and increase the salinity of the replacement water to around 1.023 untill you get where you need to be. space theese out a little say mabey once in the morning then again around dinner time if you try to raise it too quickly you could do more harm than good.

03/24/2010, 06:59 PM	#7
Reefbuoy Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Central Maryland Posts: 126	Start topping off your tank with 1.016 salt water until your tank gradually gets up to 1.024. Are you using a refractometer?

03/25/2010, 10:27 AM	#8
austinocean Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 6	Thank you all very much - using a seatest hydrometer. I will check it again tonight. If I top off water that is 1.016 with water that is 1.016, that won't make the level come up, will it? Is there a better way to measure it more accurately?

03/25/2010, 10:28 AM	#9
austinocean Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 6	Oh... and I'm still learning terminology - can't remember what the thing under the substrate is called that makes bubbles...?

03/25/2010, 01:44 PM	#12
travis32 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: West Fargo, ND Posts: 2,161	Ammonia will affect corals too. To answer your question on will topping off with 1.016 water keep salinity the same, the answer is no. When water evaporates, salt stays in the water. Salt cannot evaporate. Only the water evaporates. So, if you top off with water that has salt in it, you will in essence be adding more salt to your existing salt water. Think of it this way. Say you have a gallon of water with 1 teaspoon of salt in it. You boil off the water and you still will have 1 teaspoon of salt left in theory. Now, what if you add another gallon of water that also has 1 teaspoon of salt in it? Lets say you only boil off 1 gallon of water. How much salt is going to be in that 1 gallon of water. In theory it would be 2 teaspoons in 1 gallon of water. If you boiled both gallons of water, you would be left with 2 teaspoons of salt. So, let's say in your aquarium, you have 1 gallon of evaporation a day.. Let's say for example you have 25 cups of salt in a 50 gallon aquarium. say 10 gallons of water evaporates over 10 days. You would still have 25 cups of salt in 40 gallons of water. So, if you're topping off water every day that has salt in it, essentially you are simply increasing your salt concentrations in the aquarium. And yes, 1.016 is way too low for salt water tanks. I'm not sure what Brackish salt levels are, but that seems to sound closer to brackish tanks than SW tanks. Either way, corals won't survive in 1.016. I'm surprised your fish are surviving. I thought SW fish needed 1.020 to 1.023 to breathe currently in salt water. Also, I thought running airstones in Salt water would do something with the PH of the water? Either way, Saltwater looks much better without airstones.

03/25/2010, 01:50 PM	#13
reef_keeper Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 292	wow i never though about that... when i top off i add salt to my water so in turn I'm actually raising the salinity! Great bit of knowledge there thanks Travis.

03/25/2010, 02:17 PM	#14
njudson Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 610	People generally top off with RO/DI water and only use there salt mixed water for water changes

03/25/2010, 02:18 PM	#15
travis32 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: West Fargo, ND Posts: 2,161	Your welcome. If you're topping off with salt water, be sure to check your salinity. It's o.k. if you want to slowly raise it, but if you're routinely doing that, you could easily hit the 1.030 mark and not even know it.

03/25/2010, 03:34 PM	#16
travis32 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: West Fargo, ND Posts: 2,161	Yeah I guess one should clarify. If you manually remove water from a tank. e.g. not through evaporation, but through a siphon, vaccum, pump, or some other method where you're actually removing water. THEN you are removing salt and water. It is only through evaporation that the salt remains in the existing water in the tank. Probably a good point to make.

03/25/2010, 06:12 PM	#18
reef_keeper Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 292	pretty far? like a dangerous amount?

03/25/2010, 08:14 PM	#20
austinocean Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 6	well...tomorrow I'm off to find test kits for nitrates and ammonia, I guess... and some more salt. I'll pull the airstone out this weekend. Are all refractometers created equal? Moving the leather stool over by the protein skimmer to get some more movement seemed to help.

04/25/2010, 04:18 PM	#21
5h3rW1N Moved On Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 885	welcome to rc!!!

04/25/2010, 11:11 PM	#23
Lannyrx7 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Omaha,NE Posts: 96	The marine depot refractometer is a good little tool and I think they run from 40 to 60 bucks. They can be recalibrated manually and last. Some can get way up there in price but keep it simple is a good game plan. Once you touch a refractometer you'll never want to set eyes on a hydrometer again! For the meantime clean your hydrometer out and test it multiple times on a flat surface. If it keeps reading 1.016.. well +1 on bringing it up.

04/25/2010, 11:24 PM	#24
colotl Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 648	Definetly replace your hydrometer with a refratometer and by the calibration solution.