DIY 2 part go bad?

[homer1475]

So as the title suggests can Randy's DIY 2 part (specifically the ALK part) go bad?

I never clean my dosing container out and just dump new solution into the old. I recently noticed some "stuff" floating around the bottom. No idea what it was, but my 2 part is about half strength. I would think with evap it would get stronger, so I have no idea.

I have dumped out the old and cleaned the container, I was just curious to know whether it can go bad?

[homer1475]

I'm also asking because I have something weird going on in my tank. All my euphyillia have died, with the exception of one frogspawn and a torch). A brain is now receeding, lost a lobo, and several acans.

I see no predators, and all my numbers test out great. My LPS have just shriveled up and died, while others are growing and seems to be doing fine.

What I find odd is one day they look fine and within days they are dead.

This brain has been in my tank for over 6 months, has looked great up until 3 days ago. This is what it looks like today.

[homer1475]

My brain today. And a hammer that is right behind all my other euphyillia that died. You can see the front 2 heads loo looking a little withered. I'm guessing I'll loose this coral within the next couple days.

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[tmz]

I suppose the residue might contain some impurites but I think it is more likely something in the tank parameters is off; like a PO4 deficiency, salinity, alk, or a nitrogen deficiency as examples. Predation might also be an issue. Detritus buildup can also cause issues .

[bertoni]

I agree that it's unlikely that the two-part is the problem. Calcium chloride doesn't degrade over time. There might be some impurity, so if you are very worried, ditching the solution should be inexpensive, but I wouldn't expect it to help.

[mcgyvr]

Lots of visible hair algae indicating excessive nutrient issues there..

[rtparty]

The few times I've had LPS look like that and die was low magnesium (test kit went bad) and my temperature was too high (thermometer went bad).

Both times my numbers checked out "great" but in reality were off considerably. Not saying that is the issue here but always good to triple check everything with multiple tools/tests when things are dying.

[dkeller_nc]

In answer to your question, the calcium chloride and sodium bicarbonate/carbonate solutions used in 2-part dosing methods don't chemically degrade. This is unlike kalkwasser solutions where the calcium hydroxide will eventually react with carbon dioxide in the air and precipitate as calcium carbonate.

I too, would suggest doing some thorough parameter checks. One thing that could cause the issues you're seeing is an unstable temperature, particularly if it's going way too high. It's a good idea to check a tank's temp with a reference thermometer occasionally - many of the inexpensive electronic thermometers that we use can be way off.

Another thing to check is the specific gravity. If you're using a manual refractometer, I'd highly recommend purchasing one of the commercial 1.026 standard specific gravity solutions to back-check your calibration.

[kenneth wolfe]

Need to start changing water, no time to diagnose, when lps start dying they start polluting the tank w toxins, there larger so large expulsion of toxins, your not gona test those ,best solution is dilution..imo again..

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[kenneth wolfe]

Originally Posted by kenneth wolfe

Need to start changing water, no time to diagnose, when lps start dying they start polluting the tank w toxins, there larger so large expulsion of toxins, your not gona test those ,best solution is dilution..imo again..

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Similar species respond the same, hince what your seeing, like stn or rtn in sps but in lps it's heavy laden , carbon might help , be sure back lights down w carbon, I would rather change water, I have automatic water changer so when or if I see I kick on the changer, and flush system clean .change water and manually feed you lps lots,if they will take feed give it to them..

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[homer1475]

I have double and triple checked every parameter so I know those are not off.

I did not know about them releasing toxins when they die. This could explain why I'm losing them one by one. Should I remove the already dying ones, or try and see if they'll recover?

I know I have a GHA issue, been battling it since I moved to this tank(dry BRS pukani that I did not cure properly). It's one of the reason I stopped feeding my coral. I have not fed them in well over a year, but I have no NPS corals.

Parameters:
temp - 76 -78 triple checked with three different thermometers.

salinity - 1.025 calibrated refractometer, calibrated with 35ppt calibration solution. bought a brand new bottle thinking my old might be bad, but it's not.

Alk - been bouncing around a bit between 7.5 and 8.0 with dosing 2 part and everything dying.

Cal - steady at 420

Mag - 1350 steady

PO4 - 0.02 hanna, red sea, and salifert. they all come close to each other.

NO3 - 2.5 ppm per salifert and red sea

I have no idea whats going on with this tank, but its been a huge PITA since I moved to it.

I have 25G mixed up atm, I'll change all of that and get another 25 mixed up for tomorrow. Put some fresh carbon in my reactor also.

A big thanks everyone for trying to help.

[bertoni]

Those numbers are fine, as far as they go. At this point, I'd double-check the SG and temperature, just to be sure. Sometimes, although rarely, a PolyFilter turns up a problem.

[rtparty]

Have you tried elevating N and P even higher? Maybe something like 10 and .04?

[dkeller_nc]

This is sort of an "out there" possibility, but since you mention moving the animals to a new tank, and your water parameters are fine, is it possible that you have something going on with the lighting? It's not unusual for corals to have some issues if they were growing under halides/fluorescents, and the owner moves them to a new tank with LED lighting, or replaces the older technology fixtures with LEDs.

In and of themselves, higher-end, later-generation LEDs with sufficient UV output shouldn't cause issues, but the intensity can fool people. Do you have a light meter?

[homer1475]

No par meter, unfortunately. I did recently switch from black box to a ATI 6 bulb setup. I switched to the ATI thinking I might have a light issue with the black boxes. I did have a Rapid LED aurora puck on my biocube that most of the now dead corals came from. But that doesn't explain the deaths of the recent additions that did not come from the biocube. Or why they thrived for a year and a half in this tank. Most of my corals died within days of each other, while others are still thriving? I'm really at a loss and the possible bad 2 part was the last thing I could think of.

I honestly don't know that this point. I fragged everything I could and threw away the corals that were dying or dead skeleton, along with nearly 100% WC. So I'll just have to wait and see what happens.

[kenneth wolfe]

Sounds like you just said it, that's a big change to them, I run leds and t5s, and I recently changed all my t5s at once and also switched two builds to different color and lost month cap just like that , I was fully expecting to see that , some of my acros got some tip burn, I could not imagine how bad it would be if I did a complete swap over..most likely pretty high par , I have only 4 t5s with the leds and they make for over half the par so six, that's a significant change, some shading might help , raise lights..

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[kenneth wolfe]

It now all makes since ,there sun burnt, and all the water changes kinda made matters more worse buy stripping the tank of nutrients and also making water cleaner , raise the lights to the roof and feed more

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[dkeller_nc]

The next suggestion I was going to make (that's equally "out there") would've been a disease process. Euphyllias in particular are vulnerable to "brown jelly" disease. I'm no expert in coral biology, but I would guess that such a disease wouldn't affect your brain coral.

One other "out there" thought would be checking to make sure that your RODI unit is doing its job, and you don't have chloramines sneaking through in some way.

In circumstances like this sort of unknown tank decline, I typically fall back on the tried-and-true massive water change (or series of massive water changes) with new seawater that's carefully matched to the specific gravity, temperature and alkalinity of the tank water.

If nothing else, those massive water changes ensure that the coral that dies doesn't pollute the tank water and cause a chain reaction die-off. Running a carbon reactor with a daily change of the carbon charge wouldn't be a bad idea, either.

[kenneth wolfe]

Originally Posted by dkeller_nc

The next suggestion I was going to make (that's equally "out there") would've been a disease process. Euphyllias in particular are vulnerable to "brown jelly" disease. I'm no expert in coral biology, but I would guess that such a disease wouldn't affect your brain coral.

One other "out there" thought would be checking to make sure that your RODI unit is doing its job, and you don't have chloramines sneaking through in some way.

In circumstances like this sort of unknown tank decline, I typically fall back on the tried-and-true massive water change (or series of massive water changes) with new seawater that's carefully matched to the specific gravity, temperature and alkalinity of the tank water.

If nothing else, those massive water changes ensure that the coral that dies doesn't pollute the tank water and cause a chain reaction die-off. Running a carbon reactor with a daily change of the carbon charge wouldn't be a bad idea, either.

I don't like carbon, or gfo , they strip the water to clean for me.. have a tank that never seen carbon and strip it with carbon , and that yellowish water is gone it let's more light in

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[bertoni]

A series of water changes is worth trying, in my opinion. I agree with the fresh activated carbon, and I'd probably add a PolyFilter and perhaps some Purigen, given the losses.

The brain looks like it's been receding for a while. Maybe it's not getting enough light or enough food, but it could easily be a disease or chemical issue. I remember one person who tracked his coral deaths to a bad batch of artificial live rock. I'm not suggesting that's your problem, but it took a long time to get to that realization.

[laverda]

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

Lots of visible hair algae indicating excessive nutrient issues there..

I have to agree. Your nitrate and phosphate are higher then your tests are telling because the GHA is using it.
Dosing vinegar and iron should get it under control.

[kenneth wolfe]

Follow those misleading directions and continue down same path, system lacks nutrients for such high par, sunburnt corals, last thing they want is stripped water and high par. That's exactly what your doing, I'm sure I'm on the right post, have you hand fed the lps?

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