SolaTubes for reef tanks

[Rod the Roofer]

Hi Joe,

Good question. I believe it's like a sheet of plastic.

I'll have to enquire.

Thanks Airman,

I'm not up on subscribing to threads. Please explain.

Rod.

[BenjieC]

Right under the quick reply. to the right there is a "subscribe to this thread button" click on it and it will add it to your "My RC" that way can you find the thread easier.

[WDLV]

This has been a great thread to read. It took me a while to find this one as RC has a wealth of information to sort through....

I am in the planning stages of a 2000-5000 gallon system; for which I just got permission from the better half to build as an addition to our next home! I plan to use solar light tubes as the main source of illumination. I'd like to keep all types of corals, anemones, reef safe and some not so reef safe fish in this system.

1. For those of you who are using these or have worked closely with those who are using these, would you recommend Sola Tubes over any other brand? If so why?

2. Must I absolutely use additional sources of light in the winter months or could the corals get by with the lower light and shorter photoperiods? (I live in Maryland.)

3. Have there been any heat issues that you think I need to plan for?

4. If I put them in multiple rows, are there any structural modifications I will need to make to the roof?

Thanks in advance!

[salty joe]

I am in the planning stages of a 2000-5000 gallon system; for which I just got permission from the better half to build as an addition to our next home! I plan to use solar light tubes as the main source of illumination. I'd like to keep all types of corals, anemones, reef safe and some not so reef safe fish in this system.

WOW!! When is your next home gonne be?




4. If I put them in multiple rows, are there any structural modifications I will need to make to the roof?

Your roof trusses will probably be 24" on center. The large Sola Tube, 21" I believe, is made to go between that space. So I would have to say probably not. I would be concerned that they might shade each other if installed in a row.

[WDLV]

Sorry Salty Joe. No eye candy any time soon. Tentatively I'm looking at 2 years. Sooner would be nice though.
Thanks for the info. I will have to do rows because of the width (8'.)
I was thinking the smaller tubes would be better???

[hahnmeister]

In the case of skylights... the one I did, and some others I have seen, consist of making the skylight into a sola tube of sorts. The advantage of a single skylight over multiple sola tubes are....

1. less leaking. You are cutting one hole with 4- sides instead of multiple smaller holes.

2. more light. More glass. If you want you can get the skylight venting so you can let the humidity out easier.

3. less cost. A sola tube can be about $150-200. When you get into having 3 or more... you could have paid for just a single 2'x5' skylight... ventilating even!

But there are some disadvantages I found out as well.

4. Access to the tank. What you do for a skylight is make a shaft that goes down over the reef tank, and then line its interior with aluminum. This means one solid large box hanging from the ceiling that can be more difficult to mount other things (blue lights), or if this box hangs low over the tank... some elbow room restrictions. For those looking to completely hood the top of the reef though... removable panels come in handy here. Or, if the shaft is large enough, you can simply put the supplimental blue lights inside the shaft. In my case, since the skylight was so huge, we used a sheet of 1/4" blue plexi to tint the side skylights so supplimental blue light wasnt needed and there was still enough light. Some people just get a large enough skylight, and end the shaft a couple feet above the tank... letting the light spill into the area around the tank as well. This might not appeal to all, as it means the tank is now an open top... but it works...

5. you gotta build the box. Now, with the sola tubes, they are very narrow and long... this cuts down some of the light they pass through... but the light that does pass through is mostly going straight down like a spotlight. This is part of their appeal... they dont send tons of glaring light out to the sides. So with a large skylight, its sometimes a good idea to put in a gridwork of aluminum panels to turn that one large shaft into smaller shafts of light. Otherwise, as the sun moves, the light spread will not be even like a sola tube... but more intense at one side and less at another. This also cuts down on glare.

But on tanks over 500g, I would suggest skylights over solatubes.

[WDLV]

As was mentioned earlier in this thread and in some others, the skylights don't get the rave reviews because of the tendancy of light to be lost due to the angle of the sun. I was really leaning toward the sun tubes for that reason. The other thing that concerns me is the size that a skylight would have to be for a system of this size. It may need to be as much as 20 feet long. That would pose a serious problem with structural integrity. I want a lot of depth and a lot of height.
Now a sun room that was in essence a half of a green house is an appealing option, but the heat issues and the fact that it would absolutely have to be a Southern exposure makes this option somewhat unlikely.
I'll quit here as I'm starting to go off topic. I thank you for your detailed response, but I am pretty sure that a skylight is not an option that will be practical for me.

[salty joe]

Hey hahnmeister,


Since you have experience using skylights for reef tanks & I don’t, I wonder if you would be kind enough to share your insights & opinions.

I’ll be breaking ground in a month or so and a 475 gallon inwall is in the plan.

I plan on using two 48�x 48� homemade skylights. I am considering 3/16 or ¼ tempered low iron glass. Each skylight will be made from 3 sheets of glass that I’ll take to a glass shop to get a triple pane insulated panel. I’ll build the curbs and wrap them in aluminum gutter stock. Then, using high powered tri-polymer adhesive/sealant, I’ll glue the glass panel to the curb.

The roof the skylights will be on is only a 4/12 pitch. The optimum angle for solar panels in NE Ohio where I live is a lot steeper than that in the summer and steeper yet in the winter. So I’m thinking of building the curbs at the optimum angle for the winter. I think that would give me the most even year round light.

To deal with sunlight bouncing around and entering the tank at all kinds of crazy angles, I thought maybe using eggcrate on top of the tank. Maybe paint the eggcrate with blue Krylon Fusion.

For tank access I’ll bring the light tunnel all the way to the tank. About 2’ from the top of the tank, I’ll install a continuous horizontal hinge the width of the light tunnel.

I plan to install a small fan near the top of the light tunnel to deal with moisture.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Joe

[hahnmeister]

WetSleeves, you are correct about the light dispersion problems with skylights... thats why I came up with a gridwork reflector design. Think... extra large eggcrate made from aluminum that runs from the skylight down to the bottom of the shaft...

Like so...


It pretty much turns one large skylight into multiple sola-tubes. This would prolly help you as well Joe. My idea solved alot of control problems in Chicago... it was a little hard to figure out how to set up, but we decided to hang the thin sheets from extruded aluminum rods that made up the gridwork at the top... and the sheets just hung down and in place. You could even use mylar sheets, or whatever... the pieces just hang there like a curtain. I suppose that something lighter and more flexible would create intense shimmer lines as the breeze goes by as well.

As far as the angle of the skylight, you can get a curb mount to capture more light (increases the angle), but that might not look good outside. FWIW, that is one of the benefits of a dome skylight. You could check out a quality made acrylic done... it would be as clear if not better than starphire, and stronger (starphire is kinda brittle... I dont know if I would feel safe with it as a skylight). But also, considering the size of the skylight, I wouldnt worry about the amount of light lost... you will have plenty left over.

Two things I would consider... having the skylight venting, and sunblock shades. Sometimes, the light is too much, and in summer, nothing works as well as simply letting all that hot humid air straight up and out of the skylight. Sure, an insect screen might cut out some light... but who really needs the screen anyways(they are removable)? All those bugs are free food!!!

[Rod the Roofer]

Hi guys, the voice from down under again.

There's some great ideas there!

I think that what all this shows is that there isn't a "one size fits all" solution to this.

Using natural sunlight over reef tanks obviously isn't an exact science. There are so many contributing factors to consider. Things like: Longitude and latitude, orientation of your house, trees and or any other objects that may/will cause shadows, pitch of roof, angle of skylight, size of tank, distance from ceiling to tank, distance from roof to ceiling, inhabitants in tank, depth of tank, other lighting etc.

I believe that everyones situation is probably different and we all need to research and try various things to suit our local scene. Oh well no-one said it was going to be easy. Thank goodness for forums like RC where we can all share info!

WetSleeves,

Quote: "For those of you who are using these or have worked closely with those who are using these, would you recommend Sola Tubes over any other brand? If so why?"

There are other brands on the market. I believe that they are all very similar. I actually used the "Skydome" brand. Why? Because I could get them cheaper through a trade supplier I deal with.

Also, IMO you will need supplimental lighting during the duller months of the year. I view my skylight as supplimental to the Mh's.

The amount of heat coming down my tubes is about equivalent to what you'd feel if you went outside and put your hand out and felt the sun on it. Negligible really, compared to the heat from a Mh.

hahnmeister,

IMO an "Open top" tank has the advantage of allowing excellent gas exchange over a lidded tank.

Rod.

[JMBoehling]

Completely agree with Rod... I have (02) 10" Gordan Brand (Home Depot Specials $) Tubes over my 90. I use (02) 48" T5HOS as supplimental light (01 Uvi Super Actinic & 01 Geissman Actinic Plus) and everything is growing well (Anemones, Rics, Zoas, SPS including Tort, Tricolors, Hoeki, Pocci, Stylo, Slimer, Tenuis, etc.)

I would think, (04) 20" tubes equally spaced on your 8' wide tank would be ample lighting, along with a (04) or (06) T5's strategically placed. I live in Richmond, VA, very close to Maryland... The sun is planty bright, even in the winter months to support SPS, with a little added PAR for punch with some small Halides or T5's...

You may want to visit Dr. Mac on the Eastern Shore and take a look at his tubes, sure he can give you some good advice as well..

Later,

Jim

[Herpervet]

Originally posted by hahnmeister
WetSleeves, you are correct about the light dispersion problems with skylights... thats why I came up with a gridwork reflector design. Think... extra large eggcrate made from aluminum that runs from the skylight down to the bottom of the shaft...

Like so...


It pretty much turns one large skylight into multiple sola-tubes. This would prolly help you as well Joe. My idea solved alot of control problems in Chicago... it was a little hard to figure out how to set up, but we decided to hang the thin sheets from extruded aluminum rods that made up the gridwork at the top... and the sheets just hung down and in place. You could even use mylar sheets, or whatever... the pieces just hang there like a curtain. I suppose that something lighter and more flexible would create intense shimmer lines as the breeze goes by as well.

As far as the angle of the skylight, you can get a curb mount to capture more light (increases the angle), but that might not look good outside. FWIW, that is one of the benefits of a dome skylight. You could check out a quality made acrylic done... it would be as clear if not better than starphire, and stronger (starphire is kinda brittle... I dont know if I would feel safe with it as a skylight). But also, considering the size of the skylight, I wouldnt worry about the amount of light lost... you will have plenty left over.

Two things I would consider... having the skylight venting, and sunblock shades. Sometimes, the light is too much, and in summer, nothing works as well as simply letting all that hot humid air straight up and out of the skylight. Sure, an insect screen might cut out some light... but who really needs the screen anyways(they are removable)? All those bugs are free food!!!

I was going to post this very thing only I was thinking of using tubes instead.

Regular skylight domes then hang a cluster of tubes down the shaft.

[salty joe]

It pretty much turns one large skylight into multiple sola-tubes. This would prolly help you as well Joe.

That's an outstanding idea! Thanks.

As far as the angle of the skylight, you can get a curb mount to capture more light (increases the angle), but that might not look good outside.

I know, but this is on the back of the house.


(starphire is kinda brittle... I dont know if I would feel safe with it as a skylight).

They make big fish tanks out of it, it must be pretty strong.

Joe

[hahnmeister]

its strong, but not as strong as regular glass. Also, keep in mind that there are many types of strength with materials... hardness, elasticity, plasticity, ridgidity, etc. Glass might be harder to scratch than aluminum, but aluminum is less brittle when it comes to tensile strength. Starphire does not have iron in it like other glass, this makes it more brittle. Its strong, but its easier to damage with impact. Also, keep in mind that regular skylights are at least tempered that is anywhere from 4-8x stronger, and usually laminate... nobody uses just regular plate glass... its not strong enough, and it doesnt handle impact well. This is where plexiglass comes in, as well as laminate glass. I once saw a velux rep stand in the middle of a 3'x3' laminate skylight of theirs, and drop a bowling ball from 6'.... it bounced off the glass.

I would say starphire is 'over engineering' at this point. Most places simply use clear glass, and yes, it does block out certain percentages of light, but, its not like you are paying the electric bill on the sun, or are in short supply or anything. Plenty of greenhouses use clear laminate/tempered, and its just fine. Keep in mind that most corals arent even used to getting 1/4 the intensity of the sun at the water surface. A skylight alone is going to be loads of plenty. Remember, you are taking most of these corals from depths of 5-20meters, and placing them at 1m at most... so who cares if its not blazing tropical sun you have from that skylight. If you really want 'clear', I would strongly suggest Plexiglass, and that way, you cen get a bubble as well so that the sun doesnt deflect... that really would provide you with more light... not that you need it. lol. Or, you could wait a few more years and get clear aluminum skylights. Dont think its not coming, the military is already using clear aluminum in armored vehicle testing, and mass production is on its way as its already only about $10 per square inch (think about how much lexan was when it first came out for military use, and how quick the private sector picked up on it)

"IMO an "Open top" tank has the advantage of allowing excellent gas exchange over a lidded tank."

Rod.

Oh, Im with ya 100% there, it cools better, and I love the open top look.... but it comes at a price. Carpet surfing wrasses, higher room humidity, etc. All my tanks have been open top (some with a 6-8" parimeter wall around the top for keeping fish in), but with the recent add-on of central air, Im not willing to spend another $200 every month on cooling. Im my case, Im switching over to enclosed canopies with fans inside, as well as a 120cfm 4" duct sucking air from the canopy to the outside. Ill still get the great gas exchange, but with the outside, not my living room.

The same goes for some of these large tanks (and its why I suggested a venting skylight). I can barely stand my place with even just a couple hundred gallons of open saltwater... imagine having 1000g or more evaporating into your house! This is why I am all for enclosed tops/light shafts with these things... then you can simply vent the humid air to the outside. Less smell, less humidity and heat. And less carpet surfing. Finishing off a friends basement sump and frag vat room (6'x3' open top acrylic vat)recently by sealing it with FRP helped him take a $200 dent out of his electric bill since the reef humidity and heat wasnt adding to the main house's air. Open top is great... to a point.

[WDLV]

Thanks to all of you who did and will answer the questions I posed. I have to drop off the face of the earth for a little while, but I'll be back in a couple weeks to review this awsome thread.

Hahnmeister,
Thanks for ellaborating.

JMBoehling,
I'd love to see your setup some time if you're willing to show it off. I drive to NC a couple times a year. I never have taken the treck to Dr Mac's.... It'll happen eventually.

[hllywd]

hahnmeister,
The divided skylight is a great idea and should help minimize the light creap as the sun moves better than a regular skylight. This may be the best idea I've seen yet to get more light directed where it needs to be for longer periods through the day. I wonder what can be done to catch more light in the morning and afternoon (similar to the dome on the SolaTube).

Tim

[hahnmeister]

Acrylic Domes.... they arent as common as they once were, and some dont like the way they look compared to the clean flat profile of glass (not that 4 20" domes on the roof are that much better I suppose), but the dome allows for less liight deflection.

Otherwise, I forgot to mention it, but a ventilating skylight would help in this respect. It removes the glass all together, so light will come in no matter what the angle. Now, be dure to check what kind of skylight you get, some open farther than others.

[Rod the Roofer]

Hi guys,

Hey Salty joe,

When selecting glass for your skylight keep in mind that there are probably by-laws and building codes to comply with. That is if America is anything like Aus!! I couldn't go with anything except laminated and 12.38mm no less! (Sorry 1/2 inch)

Hey hahnmeister,

Agreed on the open top. I keep forgetting the size of your tanks over there is staggering. A big tank here would be 6 x 2 x 2. On a hot day I only lose about 5 Litres (Sorry 1.32 Gallons) and this is hardly noticeable in condensation etc. in my house.

Hey can't wait for the clear aluminum!!

Rod.

[Reefski's]

i just found this thread and haven't read each page yet! the ones i did read i didn't see any pictures. how about some pix of your setups with natural light?

i have been searching for a while to find the right glazing material so i can build my own skylight shaft over my 4x8 foot tank.

most acrylics and glass block the UV. Anthony Calfo says UV is very important for our corals.

i have finally found a glazing material to use that is used on tanning beds and animal enclosures where UV is important that transmits >80% of the UV.

you can read about it here.

http://www.spartech.com/polycast/solacryl.html

now i am looking for big sheets, 4x8, of the aluminum that the light tubes are made from. any sources?

[Herpervet]

There are plenty of nice pic's a few pages back.

Let us know what you find out about the glazing material. It's a great idea but it may end up pretty pricey( although it might still end up worth the cost in the end. )

The other issue is the esthetics. Natural light looks nice esp. mid-day but you don't get the same colors as you do with good actinic supplementation which is why I ended up supplementing actinic.

[Reefski's]

4x8 sheet 1/8" $199
1/4" $299

i may supplement with some T5's or pendant type 20k MH.

i hope to set up the tank while doing the construction on our major remodel so it can be cycling for months while building the rest of the house around it. while it is running while building i can measure the PAR values over a long time period of the year.

[hahnmeister]

"i have finally found a glazing material to use that is used on tanning beds and animal enclosures where UV is important that transmits >80% of the UV."

... or, you simply leave the skylight open... Velux even makes ones that you can leave open 24/7, and when it starts to rain, the sensors close the unit for you. So you can leave it open over night, or when you are gone. Besides... a little rain water is nothing more than 'top off' water, right?!

There are 3 types of UV, of them, C is deadly but taken care of up in the atmosphere, B is so-so but causes cancer in humans, and A is beneficial in small amounts (can also cause damage in large enough amounts). FWIW, regular glass only absorbs/blocks the C and B mostly, and lets some A through anyways. Unless you get LoE glass, you will still get a good amount of UV through the glass. And considering how much water blocks these frequencies anyways, and the shallow depth that you will keep them at in your tank at home in comparison, I wouldnt worry about the corals getting enough UV.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/g...4&js_enabled=0

Also, keep in mind that if you use any sort of supplimental blue/actinic lighting, you will be providing loads of UV-A from these bulbs anyways.

With the 'Chicago' tank, we were going to use 4x1000 watt 20,000K halides for blue supplimentation... but the amounts of other spectrums that these bulbs put out hardly makes them qualify as 'supplimental', and so the blue looked washed out when I tried my 1000watt CoralVue 20,000K over it. We decided to go with supplimental T5s instead. The blue+ and actinic T5s have a much narrower output (more blue, less of other spectrums) The tank itself is 8'x8' or 64 square feet, so a gridwork of T5s was done in a way that minimal natural daylight was blocked. So far, 48 4' T5s are hanging over the tank so far, but then the blue film was added to the skylight and we havent needed the T5s yet. Maybe this winter...

[hahnmeister]

"i have finally found a glazing material to use that is used on tanning beds and animal enclosures where UV is important that transmits >80% of the UV."

... or, you simply leave the skylight open... Velux even makes ones that you can leave open 24/7, and when it starts to rain, the sensors close the unit for you. So you can leave it open over night, or when you are gone. Besides... a little rain water is nothing more than 'top off' water, right?!

There are 3 types of UV, of them, C is deadly but taken care of up in the atmosphere, B is so-so but causes cancer in humans, and A is beneficial in small amounts (can also cause damage in large enough amounts). FWIW, regular glass only absorbs/blocks the C and B mostly, and lets some A through anyways. Unless you get LoE glass, you will still get a good amount of UV through the glass. And considering how much water blocks these frequencies anyways, and the shallow depth that you will keep them at in your tank at home in comparison, I wouldnt worry about the corals getting enough UV.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/g...4&js_enabled=0

Also, keep in mind that if you use any sort of supplimental blue/actinic lighting, you will be providing loads of UV-A from these bulbs anyways.

With the 'Chicago' tank, we were going to use 4x1000 watt 20,000K halides for blue supplimentation... but the amounts of other spectrums that these bulbs put out hardly makes them qualify as 'supplimental', and so the blue looked washed out when I tried my 1000watt CoralVue 20,000K over it. We decided to go with supplimental T5s instead. The blue+ and actinic T5s have a much narrower output (more blue, less of other spectrums) The tank itself is 8'x8' or 64 square feet, so a gridwork of T5s was done in a way that minimal natural daylight was blocked. So far, 48 4' T5s are hanging over the tank so far, but then the blue film was added to the skylight and we havent needed the T5s yet. Maybe this winter...

[hahnmeister]

"i have finally found a glazing material to use that is used on tanning beds and animal enclosures where UV is important that transmits >80% of the UV."

... or, you simply leave the skylight open... Velux even makes ones that you can leave open 24/7, and when it starts to rain, the sensors close the unit for you. So you can leave it open over night, or when you are gone. Besides... a little rain water is nothing more than 'top off' water, right?!

There are 3 types of UV, of them, C is deadly but taken care of up in the atmosphere, B is so-so but causes cancer in humans, and A is beneficial in small amounts (can also cause damage in large enough amounts). FWIW, regular glass only absorbs/blocks the C and B mostly, and lets some A through anyways. Unless you get LoE glass, you will still get a good amount of UV through the glass. And considering how much water blocks these frequencies anyways, and the shallow depth that you will keep them at in your tank at home in comparison, I wouldnt worry about the corals getting enough UV.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/g...4&js_enabled=0

Also, keep in mind that if you use any sort of supplimental blue/actinic lighting, you will be providing loads of UV-A from these bulbs anyways.

With the 'Chicago' tank, we were going to use 4x1000 watt 20,000K halides for blue supplimentation... but the amounts of other spectrums that these bulbs put out hardly makes them qualify as 'supplimental', and so the blue looked washed out when I tried my 1000watt CoralVue 20,000K over it. We decided to go with supplimental T5s instead. The blue+ and actinic T5s have a much narrower output (more blue, less of other spectrums) The tank itself is 8'x8' or 64 square feet, so a gridwork of T5s was done in a way that minimal natural daylight was blocked. So far, 48 4' T5s are hanging over the tank so far, but then the blue film was added to the skylight and we havent needed the T5s yet. Maybe this winter...

[Rod the Roofer]

I'm with you hahnmeister,

Quote:

"There are 3 types of UV, of them, C is deadly but taken care of up in the atmosphere, B is so-so but causes cancer in humans, and A is beneficial in small amounts (can also cause damage in large enough amounts). FWIW, regular glass only absorbs/blocks the C and B mostly, and lets some A through anyways. Unless you get LoE glass, you will still get a good amount of UV through the glass. And considering how much water blocks these frequencies anyways, and the shallow depth that you will keep them at in your tank at home in comparison, I wouldnt worry about the corals getting enough UV."

I have checked with the supplier of my glass and they said it blocks "harmful" UV rays and lets through some useful UV.

Quote:

"Also, keep in mind that if you use any sort of supplimental blue/actinic lighting, you will be providing loads of UV-A from these bulbs anyways."

I like most Aquarists provide supplimental actinic lighting.

Rod.