Pairing Clownfish

[johnbooko]

awesome! thanks! i have really watched your stuff and its been very interesting and i saw that you have some video clips. do you have any clips of your GSM's. maybe some of them cleaning or even spawning? i think that would be very interesting. i know there is a vid of some other fish spawning in the faq but i think it would be helpful to set up a link for just clips, and i havent seen any of two cleaning. im sure its pretty obvious what it looks like but those clips can really inspire a person in this hobby i believe. thanks for your help.

john booko

[Atticus]

When they are seriously cleaning you can obviously tell. They will be side by side mouthing the nest site. You will notice it more in the first hour the lights come on and the last couple hours before the lights go off with they spuratically cleaning alone throughout the day. They will really kick it in the day\night before they lay a clutch.

[johnbooko]

i know what cleaning looks like but i was just saying how having a faq with just videos in it would be cool. my last post was very unclear. i am going to definately get some vids posted when it actually happens. i just think it would be helpful to everyone.

thanks
john booko

[BondUniverse]

I just bought 2 ORA Maroon Clowns, about 1" or less from head to base of tail. They have been fighting for the past 3 days now. I had one anenome when I introduced them, and just yesterday bought a BTA thinking that maybe one would take to each, but the fighting hasn't stopped. Is there any chance that they will pair up, or do I need to seperate them?

[JHardman]

Originally posted by BondUniverse
I just bought 2 ORA Maroon Clowns, about 1" or less from head to base of tail. They have been fighting for the past 3 days now. I had one anenome when I introduced them, and just yesterday bought a BTA thinking that maybe one would take to each, but the fighting hasn't stopped. Is there any chance that they will pair up, or do I need to seperate them?

It is possible they will pair, but it is VERY unlikely. It is much more likely they will fight to the point that one or both die. You will need to try to follow the pairing guide lines I outline for maroons. You need one large and one small fish.

[BondUniverse]

Yeah, I've decided that they are not going to pair up now. I'm trying to catch one of them right now and then will try and find him a new home. Then I'll either wait til the other one grows to about 3" and get a smaller one, or look for a mated pair of Gold Stripe Maroons. Great post by the way! Wish I would have read it BEFORE I bought them!

[pizzamiglio]

OK first off let me say: JHardman- Incredible job! This post is amazing…..I only wish I had found it earlier.

I have a GSM (approx 1.5� from head to base of caudal) in my 92 corner. The bars are a vibrant gold. The LFS was unable to tell me weather or not it was CB, so I assume it is a WC and is probably female. (Didn’t assume this at the time of purchase though, only after reading this post did I come to that conclusion.)

I bought another GSM (approx 1.25� from head to base of caudal). Again, no indication as to CB or WC, so WC is assumed. But this one only had one bar that is turning gold and the other two are barely yellow. (Don’t know if this means it is an “it�, or a “he� or a “she� )

When I first introduced the new GSM, the old GSM immediately rushed. They both grabbed onto each other’s pectoral fins and were spinning around in circles. This continued for a few min, and then the new one ran off. The old one went back to the BTA and the new one hides in the corner next to the powerhead. When the old one sees the new one, she rushes out and gives chase, then goes back to the BTA.

They have not exhibited the “lip locking� of two females, yet they have not shown any sideways turning, seizures, or any other submissive behavior. I realize now that the problem is they are both about the same size, and since they are assumed WC, they could have already changed sex. My question is: is this a lost cause, trying to get to GSM’s of approx the same size who were not introduced together to pair up? Thanks.

[Vert20]

First how long have you had the original GSM in the tank by itself?

Was the new clown in a community tank at the LFS or alone?

GSM start off as Wite Striped, then it changes to yellow...as yours is doing which to me would indicate juvinile status.

Experts can correct me if I am wrong here.

[pizzamiglio]

Originally posted by Vert20
First how long have you had the original GSM in the tank by itself?

Was the new clown in a community tank at the LFS or alone?

GSM start off as Wite Striped, then it changes to yellow...as yours is doing which to me would indicate juvinile status.

Experts can correct me if I am wrong here.

Original GSM has been in the tank since 3/24/04.

New one was the only GSM in the tank at LFS, but there was a couple of small false percs in the tank also. (Don't know if that makes a difference or not)

[JHardman]

Originally posted by pizzamiglio
OK first off let me say: JHardman- Incredible job! This post is amazing…..I only wish I had found it earlier.

I have a GSM (approx 1.5� from head to base of caudal) in my 92 corner. The bars are a vibrant gold. The LFS was unable to tell me weather or not it was CB, so I assume it is a WC and is probably female. (Didn’t assume this at the time of purchase though, only after reading this post did I come to that conclusion.)

I bought another GSM (approx 1.25� from head to base of caudal). Again, no indication as to CB or WC, so WC is assumed. But this one only had one bar that is turning gold and the other two are barely yellow. (Don’t know if this means it is an “it�, or a “he� or a “she� )

When I first introduced the new GSM, the old GSM immediately rushed. They both grabbed onto each other’s pectoral fins and were spinning around in circles. This continued for a few min, and then the new one ran off. The old one went back to the BTA and the new one hides in the corner next to the powerhead. When the old one sees the new one, she rushes out and gives chase, then goes back to the BTA.

They have not exhibited the “lip locking� of two females, yet they have not shown any sideways turning, seizures, or any other submissive behavior. I realize now that the problem is they are both about the same size, and since they are assumed WC, they could have already changed sex. My question is: is this a lost cause, trying to get to GSM’s of approx the same size who were not introduced together to pair up? Thanks.

The two fish are too close in size. It is very unlikely you will get a pairing with these two fish. Maroons need to be presented with the overwhelming threat of death to submit, and having another fish that is close in size is not going to do it.

I would recommend returning one of them and growing out the other to at least 2.5" (larger would be better) then try a pairing then with a small <1" fish.

[pizzamiglio]

I was afraid of that. I put the new one in a "safe house" (drilled out my large collection cup and put a few pieces of LR in it to weight it down), and placed it next to the BTA before I went to work tonight. When I came home, the new one is right next to the wall of the box, and the old one is right next to the new one. The old one is not trying to break the box open, and the new one does not look scared, but.......*shrug* I will let the new one out tomorrow afternoon, and if things don't look any better I will take it back to the LFS immediately. Thank you very much JHardman and Vert20. Your guidance is greatly appreciated.

[fishman24]

hey J hardman i have 2 false perculas for about a year and they havent bred yet. I want to know what im doing wrong??? There in a 37 gallon reef ready tank. One of them have done the quiver and one has grown bigger than the other. So is it just a matter of time before they breed??

[JHardman]

Originally posted by fishman24
hey J hardman i have 2 false perculas for about a year and they havent bred yet. I want to know what im doing wrong??? There in a 37 gallon reef ready tank. One of them have done the quiver and one has grown bigger than the other. So is it just a matter of time before they breed??

A bit off topic for this thread...

If you will start a new thread and list your tank conditions; lighting period, SG, water temp, what and how often you are feeding, I am sure we can help figure things out for you.

[pizzamiglio]

Update on my GSM's. OK, so after a few tries I figured things were just not going to work out. The problem was though, that my female had handed a pretty bad beating to the male before I would get him in a safehouse. So I decided to keep him in the tank until his fins grew back....all of them. Anyways, he has been in the little box for over 3 weeks and finally he was looking good enough to go back to the LFS where he could get another home. So I open the little box to get him out, and he swims out and right over to my female and her BTA. She comes at him, (I'm thinking....oh great...gotta get him out quick before she whoops up on him again.) he does the little dance and turns sideways, and she LEAVES HIM ALONE!!! So, I spend most of the afternoon watching them, to make sure there are no a$$whippings in progress. After I came home from picking the kids up from school and the wife up from work I check on them, and they are both in the same BTA. I was stoked!! It took a long time (going on almost a month) but they are finally together. Just thought I'd share. Have a good evening all

[k_kagy]

I am trying to pair some true percs. and had a question. I bought a true perc. today, with the full black all the way to the tip of his tail and he or she is about 2", most likely a female.

I wanted to get another one, but the only ones left were about 1.5-2", so I didn't want to take the chance. When looking for a juvenile, should I also watch out for how the utilize the tank there in, meaning if they stick to one area and are more territorial then I would assume its a female and if it is more of a wonderer, than assume male. I want to get the smallest one possible, but its hard to find small onyx true percs.
Thanks

[JHardman]

Originally posted by k_kagy
I am trying to pair some true percs. and had a question. I bought a true perc. today, with the full black all the way to the tip of his tail and he or she is about 2", most likely a female.

I wanted to get another one, but the only ones left were about 1.5-2", so I didn't want to take the chance. When looking for a juvenile, should I also watch out for how the utilize the tank there in, meaning if they stick to one area and are more territorial then I would assume its a female and if it is more of a wonderer, than assume male. I want to get the smallest one possible, but its hard to find small onyx true percs.
Thanks

At 2" you can not make an assumption about sex at all. It could be a small female, a large male or a male turning into a female.

I have successfully paired them with the size difference you would have. However I knew the sex for sure when I did it as I half of two pairs and was able to place a small female with a good sized male.

The safest route would be to growout the fish you have and wait it out for a small. You can take a shot at it, but be prepared to return the new fish.

A. percula can be VERY rough in the pairing. One of the classics for this species is for the dominate female to bite the pectoral fin of the other fish and hold them for several minutes until they go completely still. The problems come in when the submissive doesn't go still, the struggling or aggression from the dominate fish can easily result in the pectoral fin being ripped out or bitten off completely. If you decide to go for it, do it on a day when you can watch them all day, as this type of thing can go on all day or even for a couple of days before they get things really worked out. On the bright side, once they form a pair bond it is one of the strongest you will see in clownfish, VERY dedicated males.

[k_kagy]

Good information. Should I wait for the smallest perc possible or should I get one close to 1" to 1.5" no more so it won't get to pushed around or do I want that. I just don't want to get another female, that is if I have one already.

About showing dominance in the tanks at my LFS, would more aggression show or lean towards female, even for a smaller fish.

[JHardman]

Originally posted by k_kagy
Good information. Should I wait for the smallest perc possible or should I get one close to 1" to 1.5" no more so it won't get to pushed around or do I want that. I just don't want to get another female, that is if I have one already.

You can take a shot, I figure you have a 50/50 chance, maybe a little better.

Originally posted by k_kagy
About showing dominance in the tanks at my LFS, would more aggression show or lean towards female, even for a smaller fish.

You can't judge anything by that as these are WC fish in a totally unnatural setting.

[k_kagy]

I was wondering if a clownfish that is still sexless will quiver to a female?
Here is a pic of my two clowns.
The smaller one has been in the same tank with the larger one for about a week now. They enjoy to swim around the tank together, but the larger one likes her anemone to herself.
I have seen the little guy quiver once for a very short time and only once. Usually when the female charges they male darts away with no harm.
Will these two guys form a bond in the future?
<http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showp...t=1&thecat=500>.
<http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showp...t=1&thecat=500>.

[JHardman]

Originally posted by k_kagy
I was wondering if a clownfish that is still sexless will quiver to a female?

The quiver is a submissive behavior and has little to do with being sexless or not, but aggression and submission.

You likely have the good beginnings of a solid pair bond there.

[Bergtril]

Thanks for the very useful info JHardman.

After purchasing a pair of Ocellaris clowns a few months back and watching them swim around near the surface of my tank...and not go anywhere near my BTA (which has already split), I decided to move them to another tank and purchase a pair of Maroons, which would likely host.

It took less than 2 days for one Maroon to host but the dominance issue has yet to be resolved. I purchased two at the same time in the hope that it would reduce the fighting (which has been savage!!!). It's been 4 days now without a divider, but having read your post, I think I should have separated them (and I probably will). The less dominant clown has had all its fins nipped. Poor little critter.

Thanks again for the info. I wish I had found it a bit earlier, but it's still useful.

Bergtril

[johns]

JHardman-

I asked this question in a different thread in this forum, but no real discussion is going on. I know you are an expert at this sort of thing, so I thought I'd ask you here. My concern is regarding the pairing up of an ocellaris and true percula (onyx?) which i recieved at the LFS last week.

The other thread can be found here for reference:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hreadid=399442

and pictures are in my gallery, if needed

here's the last post to the above-mentioned thread

thanks in advance for any help



quote:
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Originally posted by Vert20
Looking at the eyes, it looks like an Onyx and Ocellaris to me.
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Exactly what I was thinking. I already knew one was a percula and one an oscellaris. I even knew when I bought them that the LFS owner was probably wrong in his insistance that they were both true percs. When I got them home and started thinking about it more, I wasn't sure what to think. I mean, I had been being really patient and I was definitely holding out for a pair of true percs. Somehow, the neat looking 'onxy' pattern of the one coupled with the insistance of the owner...next thing you know I'm taking them home with me (and a pretty good price at only $20 a piece). But, I dont know, the pair is growing on me - they seem healthy and happy - they seem to get along for now - they dont outright fight (maybe playfully a bit?)

Given that, do you think these will wind up as an ok pair? Would there be more problems getting them to breed? How about getting them to host in a coral?

[OrionN]

TTT

[Reefs1]

I am looking for an answer to this question as well. I have a pair of True Perc and Black Perc that seem to be getting along well. Can having a pair like be a problem?

[oama]

Jhardmans latest info on cross pairing: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hreadid=412121

Thought it might be of some use here.