Matrix (and siporax) questions, to keep from derailing Sahin's thread..... - Page 31

rtparty · 01/12/2017, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mannyhernz

Thinking of adding some matrix, how does one determine how much to use? Does it go liter to gallon? Or does it depend on bioload?

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Bioload and other filtration is going to determine that. No way there can be a set rule for it all. Every tank is different.

bif24701 · 01/12/2017, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReefKeeper64

Yes, it goes 26 liters of Siporax per 100 gallons of water. That seems to be the approximate ratio that has proven itself most effective in many systems including Carlinhos Moreno's TOTM. Using less Siporax media is liken to using less rock.

26l:100gallons?!!!!!!! 26liters!? Amazon sales 10l boxes for $199.99! You need 26 per 100 gallons?! Is that correct?!

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rtparty · 01/12/2017, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bif24701

26l:100gallons?!!!!!!! 26liters!? Amazon sales 10l boxes for $199.99! You need 26 per 100 gallons?! Is that correct?!

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There is no way that can be right but the link from his post doesn't work.

bif24701 · 01/12/2017, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rtparty

There is no way that can be right but the link from his post doesn't work.

In my size system that would be around 20 gallons of siporax!!!

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bigzman · 01/12/2017, 03:31 PM

And I thought I had enough matrix (14 Liters) for my 330 gallon. I guess I should have ordered the 5 gallon :-). All kidding aside I can see the reasons behind adding that much siporax and here is why.

With that much media bad events like a spike in No3 or Nitrate (Mass die off) can minimize the impact in change.

Also bacteria in water column can be a good source of nutrients for corals (Like carbon) but to adding that much media with out setting a benchmark might be a waste or can be potentially bad in the event of some mass die off which can result in to a bacteria bloom and oxygen depravation. More so since there is no scientific data only manufacture claims and usage suggestions.

I see the results in his case but not sure if it is the quantity of Siporax or other variables.

I my self might add more matrix but only 4 more liters as I am seeing results already.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReefKeeper64

Make sure you are using enough Siporax to get the results you are looking for. Carlinhos Moreno uses 140 liters of Siporax to manage his 2000 liter TOTM setup. That works out to 26 liters of Siporax per 100 gallons of water. While this ratio is significantly higher ratio than what the manufacturer says is required, it is inexpensive, safe, and the results speak for themselves.

See
"I got about 140 liter of Siporax Pond in 4 perforated boxes (see pictures)"
and
"Display gross capacity is close to 1,000 liter again, and I have another 1,000 liter of water circulating through the complete filtration system".

http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index....k-of-the-month

bigzman · 01/12/2017, 03:44 PM

I forgot to add seachem claims a surface area per liter of 700 m² vs 270 m² per liter of spirox. Not sure if that was covered. I have asked Seachem to please add to this. Topic of surface area was covered to a degree here.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...1&postcount=20

bif24701 · 01/12/2017, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigzman

I forgot to add seachem claims a surface area per liter of 700 m² vs 270 m² per liter of spirox. Not sure if that was covered. I have asked Seachem to please add to this. Topic of surface area was covered to a degree here.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...1&postcount=20

According to Seachem Matrix has more surface area than siporax? I assumed siporax would have been more.

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bigzman · 01/12/2017, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bif24701

According to Seachem Matrix has more surface area than siporax? I assumed siporax would have been more.

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If you look around it seems highly debated. Siporax has been around a very long time and with great success in Freshwater. I now BRS provided number for rock and other medias but Siporax and Matrix have never been put to the test.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtbsCPlBnQg

ReefKeeper64 · 01/12/2017, 05:00 PM

Hey all, Here is the link http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index....k-of-the-month

If the link still does not work, search for keywords TOTM 2012 SIPORAX and you will find the article.

ReefKeeper64 · 01/12/2017, 05:02 PM

Repost with corrected link:

Make sure you are using enough Siporax to get the results you are looking for. Carlinhos Moreno uses 140 liters of Siporax to manage his 2000 liter TOTM setup. That works out to 26 liters of Siporax per 100 gallons of water. While this ratio is significantly higher ratio than what the manufacturer says is required, it is inexpensive, safe, and the results speak for themselves.

See
"I got about 140 liter of Siporax Pond in 4 perforated boxes (see pictures)"
and
"Display gross capacity is close to 1,000 liter again, and I have another 1,000 liter of water circulating through the complete filtration system".

See http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index....k-of-the-month

ReefKeeper64 · 01/12/2017, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bif24701

26l:100gallons?!!!!!!! 26liters!? Amazon sales 10l boxes for $199.99! You need 26 per 100 gallons?! Is that correct?!

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Haha, Carlinhos Moreno uses 140 liters in his 530 gallon system so yes, you read correctly. If you haven't already, be sure to check out his TOTM article. Its a good read and there are several pictures of his Siporax containers.

$199 for 10 liters of Siporax? That's WAY expensive! Search ebay for "SIPORAX POND BIO RINGS 25mm FOR MARINE TANK, POND, SUMPS BIOLOGICAL FILTER MEDIA" and select the 25 liter option. There you will find it in 25 liter containers shipped to your door for just $175. MUCH CHEAPER THAT WAY.

bif24701 · 01/12/2017, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReefKeeper64

Haha, Carlinhos Moreno uses 140 liters in his 530 gallon system so yes, you read correctly. If you haven't already, be sure to check out his TOTM article. Its a good read and there are several pictures of his Siporax containers.

$199 for 10 liters of Siporax? That's WAY expensive! Search ebay for "SIPORAX POND BIO RINGS 25mm FOR MARINE TANK, POND, SUMPS BIOLOGICAL FILTER MEDIA" and select the 25 liter option. There you will find it in 25 liter containers shipped to your door for just $175. MUCH CHEAPER THAT WAY.

I have the room for it in my sump, that just seems like a lot. I have two MarinePure blocks in my 300g system that are getting it done but I don't have any fish in it. Going fallow. After I get all my fish and tangs grow out I'll need more nitrate processing power.

I would love to see that TOTM, could you post a link?

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bif24701 · 01/12/2017, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bif24701

I have the room for it in my sump, that just seems like a lot. I have two MarinePure blocks in my 300g system that are getting it done but I don't have any fish in it. Going fallow. After I get all my fish and tangs grow out I'll need more nitrate processing power.

I would love to see that TOTM, could you post a link?

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NM, found it.

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ReefKeeper64 · 01/12/2017, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bif24701

I have the room for it in my sump, that just seems like a lot. I have two MarinePure blocks in my 300g system that are getting it done but I don't have any fish in it. Going fallow. After I get all my fish and tangs grow out I'll need more nitrate processing power.

I would love to see that TOTM, could you post a link?

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Google or Bing the following text and the article will come right up!

Reefkeeping Magazine Volume 10, Issue 8 August 2012 Tank of the Month
Carlinhos Moreno's 980L (252 US-gallon) Reef Aquarium

Mr.Fishtank · 01/22/2017, 05:00 PM

Is anyone dosing a carbon source to feed the bacteria? I have been using 3L in my 90 gallon for a few months now and is hasn't helped much. Will be getting 4 more liters tomorrow to make it 7L. Hopefully this helps. I was thinking to start adding some kind of carbon source to help keep the populations up. Any thoughts?

bif24701 · 01/22/2017, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Fishtank

Is anyone dosing a carbon source to feed the bacteria? I have been using 3L in my 90 gallon for a few months now and is hasn't helped much. Will be getting 4 more liters tomorrow to make it 7L. Hopefully this helps. I was thinking to start adding some kind of carbon source to help keep the populations up. Any thoughts?

Often the limiting factor for bacteria growth is carbon. Adding safe carbon source has almost no drawbacks and great benefits.

I add vinegar to my Kalk.

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ReefKeeper64 · 01/22/2017, 11:28 PM

I also add vinegar, only with a dosing pump. Carlos Morenos runs a biopellet reactor. Most are adding carbon in one form or another.

Pife · 01/23/2017, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReefKeeper64

I also add vinegar, only with a dosing pump. Carlos Morenos runs a biopellet reactor. Most are adding carbon in one form or another.

I wouldn't say most. But we're splitting hairs.

AkoAung · 02/03/2017, 12:17 PM

Are there any thoughts or guides on nitrate or nitrogen dosing in conjunction with siporax/matrix/etc?

As in how much to dose per liter/gallon etc.
While both my nitrate and phos were undetectable, I thought having some trace amount of nitrates was desirable so I began to dose what I assumed was a minute amount (0.2ppm) and within a day my PE was gone. I have stopped dosing after 3 days even though nitrates remain undetectable. I lost one acro colony to STN and one milli now has STN.

bif24701 · 02/03/2017, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkoAung

Are there any thoughts or guides on nitrate or nitrogen dosing in conjunction with siporax/matrix/etc?

As in how much to dose per liter/gallon etc.

While both my nitrate and phos were undetectable, I thought having some trace amount of nitrates was desirable so I began to dose what I assumed was a minute amount (0.2ppm) and within a day my PE was gone. I have stopped dosing after 3 days even though nitrates remain undetectable. I lost one acro colony to STN and one milli now has STN.

Your PO4 and NO3 are too low possibly. Do you feed your corals well? If not you should be.

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organism · 02/03/2017, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkoAung

Are there any thoughts or guides on nitrate or nitrogen dosing in conjunction with siporax/matrix/etc?

As in how much to dose per liter/gallon etc.
While both my nitrate and phos were undetectable, I thought having some trace amount of nitrates was desirable so I began to dose what I assumed was a minute amount (0.2ppm) and within a day my PE was gone. I have stopped dosing after 3 days even though nitrates remain undetectable. I lost one acro colony to STN and one milli now has STN.

It varies but you're going up have to dose a lot at the beginning. You probably lost colonies and polyp extension because adding nitrates let the bacteria eat all your phosphates.

You need to feed more and add nitrates, your best bet is to dose nitrates and test every 20 minutes until you're at 2-5. I had nitrates go from 2 to 0 a few times a day until it the bacteria caught up, now it's once or twice a week but I feed twice as much as I used to as well.

AkoAung · 02/04/2017, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bif24701

Your PO4 and NO3 are too low possibly. Do you feed your corals well? If not you should be.

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I do not target feed them but i may start doing that. not sure if it will help as currently there is no PE extension.

Quote:

Originally Posted by organism

It varies but you're going up have to dose a lot at the beginning. You probably lost colonies and polyp extension because adding nitrates let the bacteria eat all your phosphates.

You need to feed more and add nitrates, your best bet is to dose nitrates and test every 20 minutes until you're at 2-5. I had nitrates go from 2 to 0 a few times a day until it the bacteria caught up, now it's once or twice a week but I feed twice as much as I used to as well.

I usually feed 2x a day though what you say makes sense so I'll up that to 3x.

bif24701 · 02/04/2017, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkoAung

I do not target feed them but i may start doing that. not sure if it will help as currently there is no PE extension.

I usually feed 2x a day though what you say makes sense so I'll up that to 3x.

Corals need food, not a must but a designated coral food like Reef Chilli can help too a few times a week.

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ReefKeeper64 · 02/04/2017, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkoAung

Are there any thoughts or guides on nitrate or nitrogen dosing in conjunction with siporax/matrix/etc?

As in how much to dose per liter/gallon etc.
While both my nitrate and phos were undetectable, I thought having some trace amount of nitrates was desirable so I began to dose what I assumed was a minute amount (0.2ppm) and within a day my PE was gone. I have stopped dosing after 3 days even though nitrates remain undetectable. I lost one acro colony to STN and one milli now has STN.

You mentioned siporax, matrix, etc.
--Which media are you using?
--How much?
--Total water volume of your system?

carlosmos · 02/06/2017, 05:38 AM

If I'm right, matrix and siporax are close the same, some people use one or another deppending personal opinons or if is easy to obtain.

But, why to mix matrix and siporax? Like Sharin, he's using both at the same time...

thanks
Carlos

01/12/2017, 03:44 PM	#756
bigzman Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: New Tampa FL Posts: 2,807	I forgot to add seachem claims a surface area per liter of 700 m² vs 270 m² per liter of spirox. Not sure if that was covered. I have asked Seachem to please add to this. Topic of surface area was covered to a degree here. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...1&postcount=20 __________________ 330g SPS - LED/T5 - EShopp S-300 Skimmer - 4 x Jebao PP20- reefkeeper elite Current Tank Info: 210 gallon mixed reef lps sps

01/22/2017, 11:28 PM	#767
ReefKeeper64 Wanna be a reefkeeper Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Tampa Posts: 1,158	I also add vinegar, only with a dosing pump. Carlos Morenos runs a biopellet reactor. Most are adding carbon in one form or another. __________________ Reef Savvy 110g Tank \| GHL Profilux 4 Controller & Doser \| Royal Exclusiv Skimmer & Dreambox/Sump \| ATI 8x54 Sunpower T5 \| Ozotech Ozone Generator

02/03/2017, 12:17 PM	#769
AkoAung aka -iDestroya- Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Toronto Posts: 507	Nitrate dosing, nitrogen dosing Are there any thoughts or guides on nitrate or nitrogen dosing in conjunction with siporax/matrix/etc? As in how much to dose per liter/gallon etc. While both my nitrate and phos were undetectable, I thought having some trace amount of nitrates was desirable so I began to dose what I assumed was a minute amount (0.2ppm) and within a day my PE was gone. I have stopped dosing after 3 days even though nitrates remain undetectable. I lost one acro colony to STN and one milli now has STN.

01/12/2017, 05:00 PM	#759
ReefKeeper64 Wanna be a reefkeeper Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Tampa Posts: 1,158	Hey all, Here is the link http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index....k-of-the-month If the link still does not work, search for keywords TOTM 2012 SIPORAX and you will find the article.

01/12/2017, 05:02 PM	#760
ReefKeeper64 Wanna be a reefkeeper Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Tampa Posts: 1,158	Repost with corrected link: Make sure you are using enough Siporax to get the results you are looking for. Carlinhos Moreno uses 140 liters of Siporax to manage his 2000 liter TOTM setup. That works out to 26 liters of Siporax per 100 gallons of water. While this ratio is significantly higher ratio than what the manufacturer says is required, it is inexpensive, safe, and the results speak for themselves. See "I got about 140 liter of Siporax Pond in 4 perforated boxes (see pictures)" and "Display gross capacity is close to 1,000 liter again, and I have another 1,000 liter of water circulating through the complete filtration system". See http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index....k-of-the-month

01/22/2017, 05:00 PM	#765
Mr.Fishtank Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 275	Is anyone dosing a carbon source to feed the bacteria? I have been using 3L in my 90 gallon for a few months now and is hasn't helped much. Will be getting 4 more liters tomorrow to make it 7L. Hopefully this helps. I was thinking to start adding some kind of carbon source to help keep the populations up. Any thoughts?

02/06/2017, 05:38 AM	#775
carlosmos Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 99	If I'm right, matrix and siporax are close the same, some people use one or another deppending personal opinons or if is easy to obtain. But, why to mix matrix and siporax? Like Sharin, he's using both at the same time... thanks Carlos