anyone out there try there product ?

[trueblackpercula]

I have been looking for additives for my tank and came acress a sponsors link . Has anyone out thre tried there products? I have a SPS only 120 gallon tank and would like to know whats the best additives for my system. The have a lot of products so I am confused about what i should be adding and what i should not.
Thanks
Michael
here is the link
http://www.elosusa.com/

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The only additives that I recommend are calcium and alkalinity somehow, and then possibly a couple of others. I add iron for macroalgae and silica for sponges/diatoms/snails/etc.

I can't tell from that link exactly what types of products you might be wondering about.

This articles describes what I think should be controlled, and what not:


Reef Aquarium Water Parameters
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.htm

[trueblackpercula]

here is a list of there stuff hope you can make heads or tails from it
Calcium Carbonate
Calcium Hydroxide
Pharmaceutical Grade calcium compound
Magnesium supplement
Reef iodine additive for highly demanding Reef tanks
Iron integrator for highly demanding Reef and Macro Algae tanks
Strontium and Barium integrator for highly demanding reef tank
Trace Element integrator for highly demanding reef tank
Calcium Magnesium and Strontium
Iodine and Trace Elements
Buffer solution
Periodic Magnesium
Periodic Calcium
Plancton supplement
Aminoacid Complex
High bio-available coral nourishment Product Details

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Many of those are ways to supply calcium and alkalinity. You likely need pick only one. I recommend limewater, CaCO3/CO2 reactors, or two part additives.

I do not recommend iodine or strontium as I think dosing is unnecessary. Same for trace element cocktails.

Amino acids might be interesting, especially those with aspartic acid, but I've never used them myself.

[JamesJR]

Randy, Your anser about dosing amino acids interests me. I would bet that in seawater you would never see a high level of ammino acids, as such nutrients would be taken up. I am guessing, but I think that either the corals or their xooanthelae would probably have their own biosynthetic capabilites and may be able to synthesize ammino acids as they need them, and hence there is no reason to dose such things in a reef tank. Do you agree?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It appears that some amino acids may actually limit coral growth in the ocean. I discuss aspartic acid issues here:

The Chemical & Biochemical Mechanisms of Calcification in Corals
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/apr2002/chem.htm

from it:

"Regardless of the mechanisms involved, the need for these organics in calcification is easily verified. Allemand et al14 have studied the role of such materials in Stylophora pistillata. Interestingly, they find that inhibitors of protein synthesis reduce the rate of calcification considerably. For example, reducing protein synthesis by 60-85% reduced calcification by 50%. A similar result was found by inhibiting glycoprotein synthesis. These results did not come about because of reduced metabolism, but rather by specific effects of reduced protein and glycoprotein synthesis. The most important conclusion in their paper may be that the rate of skeletogenesis may be more limited by the rate of biosynthesis and exocytosis of organic matrix proteins rather than by calcium deposition.
Interestingly, the apparently large need for a particular amino acid (aspartic acid) to synthesize these proteins is satisfied by external sources, not by either the coral itself or the zooxanthellae. For this reason, it might be interesting to see what added aspartic acid does to calcification rates in reef tanks."

[DrBDC]

Ever experiment around with this any?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I haven't, but I think it an interesting thing to do for those inclined.

[JamesJR]

This is really interesting. Are you saying that the coral's growth is limited becauce of limitations in it's protein biosynthetic capabilities because of deficiencies in aspartic acid? If a very common common coral like stylophora pistillata cannot make aspartic acid than I would guess that it must have a very primitive metablism.
The biosynthesis of Aspartic acid takes oxaloacetate from the krebs cycle and then uses a reductive ammination which is a very simple process. Do they know if this also means that these corals have deficiencies in things like asparagine, or other oxaloacetate synthetic products? To me, it seems very counter-intuitive that a coral could not synthesize it's own aspartic acid.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

To me, it seems very counter-intuitive that a coral could not synthesize it's own aspartic acid.


Why? Can you synthesize all of the amino acids that you need?

[JamesJR]

No I cannot but I can make aspartic acid. Aspartic acid biosynthesis is more primitive than something really complicated like histidine biosynthesis. I think I will look at Sci-finder sometime this week and look it up. This is really interesting.

[JamesJR]

I mean you still need to eat it but if somehow you were short in at some slight instant in time I'm sure a healthy, well fed human could make up for a deficency in aspartic acid.

[DrBDC]

I'm running by my supplier to check prices today. Why not? Although how would I know the result. I'll end up on here sounding like a fanatic from "other" type supplement systems! It worked for me!!

[JamesJR]

Who knows it could work. It could also cause bacterial or algae blooms but It would be interesting to try.

[funloven]

I'm not sure why but it never occurred to me that corals would use amino acids and the kreb cycle. You learn something new everyday!

I would like to divert back to the original question and Randy's response, please. I recently have managed to get my limewater up and running and I have all the ingredients for mixing up Randy's 2 part addative, but I have not had the need to use either since starting the limewater. Is this possible?

Also, I started using carbon for the first 2 weeks of each month and I really like how it clears up the color of my water. When I started this I was told that I would need to add Trace Elements because the carbon depletes it. Is this right or not?

[JamesJR]

I have stopped using trace element supplements altogether because IMO you are adding many ingredients you can't test for and may be over dosing. That is simply my opinion. As the hobby progresses and we start to get more and more information about what elements do what and how to test for them, I may start to use them again but until that day comes won't. Do regular water changes and you can make up for trace element deficencies that way.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I would like to divert back to the original question and Randy's response, please. I recently have managed to get my limewater up and running and I have all the ingredients for mixing up Randy's 2 part addative, but I have not had the need to use either since starting the limewater. Is this possible?

Yes. I only use limewater. If you have a very high demand SPS tank, you may need more than limewater, but many folks use only limewater.

I use carbon and do not add trace elements aside from iron for macroalgae and silica for sponges/snails/diatoms/etc.

[funloven]

O.k. so I won't bother replentishing my T.E. supply when it runs out.

So how about the Silica and Iron. I'm looking through my Marine Depot catalog and can't seem to find any in here. What brand are you using and where do you get it from?

I have stopped dosing Strontium and Iodine per your recommendations and I can't really tell that anything has suffered because of it despit the fact that many sourced recommend the Iodine. I really value your knowledge and input.

Thanks, to all of you.

[funloven]

Still hoping for an answer so I'm jumping up in line.

[trueblackpercula]

Ok Randy I got the point ...............so what should I be dosing in my system? Its a 120 gallon SPS only BB method. In my case what should I be adding to the tank. I dose b-ionic daily and purple up. I change 5 gallons of water using ro/di water and TMPRO salt mix. I add nothnig else should I be or is this fine?
Michael
here is a link to my set up.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...5&pagenumber=1

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So how about the Silica and Iron. I'm looking through my Marine Depot catalog and can't seem to find any in here. What brand are you using and where do you get it from?

I do not know of any commercial hobby silica additives. I discuss dosing and where to buy it here:


Silica in a Reef Tank
http://advancedaquarist.com/issues/jan2003/feature.htm


Kent and Seachem (Flourish Iron) sell iron products.

and I can't really tell that anything has suffered because of it despit the fact that many sourced recommend the Iodine.

That's pretty normal.

trueblackpercula:

I'd just dose the B-ionic, and then iron if you grow macroalgae and possibly silica if you want to encourage sponges/snails./diatoms/etc.

[trueblackpercula]

got it thanks

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Happy Reefing.

[trueblackpercula]

Hey Randy got a quick question if you don't mind. I was told that using kalk in my make up water would be good for My SPS. Is there something that could be added to the make up water that can do the same thing but with out the power mess? Like some kinfd of liquid additive for the make up water.
Michael

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Limewater is a good way to supplement both calcium and alkalinity. I do not think I'd put any other single calcium and alkalinity additive into top off water, but you could put the alkalinity part of a two part additive into it, and dose the calcium manually once or twice a week.