Reverse Carlson Surge Device

galleon · 01/23/2003, 06:54 PM

I'd read awhile back about a few people playing around with them, any updates?

Tactstat · 01/24/2003, 11:26 AM

Well, I played with them once, and a 3" across 9" long tube will create a surge in a 46 gal tank that will knock over rocks... *grin*

I will be designing a nano SPS tank with a pair of Reverse Carlsons as the only circulation soon (next month or so)

I'll post updates then.

By the way! Its been awhile since I was around so HI to ever one who remebers me!

-Tact

Tom Hulse · 01/26/2003, 04:25 PM

Here's the original link for the RSCD. Here is another link for an RSCD out of 6" pvc pipe.
Tacstat, you better keep us posted, there's nothing I'm more interested in now. Thanks.

- Tom

Tactstat · 01/27/2003, 12:40 PM

Thanks for the links, that wasn't what I was going to do orginally, but the external RCSD would be much prefered!

More room inside for corals!!!

Thanks,!

SAT · 01/28/2003, 11:19 AM

I built one into my new 300G using the original (internal) method. It has 10G capacity and blows in less than 2 seconds, dropping the water level about an inch.

H20ENG · 01/28/2003, 06:45 PM

SAT,
Any pics of your surge? Hows the house, the big tank, and the SUNLIGHT???
Chris

SAT · 01/28/2003, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by H20ENG
Any pics of your surge? Hows the house, the big tank, and the SUNLIGHT???

Chris,

I'm afraid you'll just have to be patient like me.

We just finished moving, the basement is chock full of boxes, and the aquarium just isn't the highest priority right now. I filled the aquarium with water to check the plumbing (and make sure the RCSD works), but I had to empty it again because we were growing mosquito larvae (yes, in Pennsylvania in December!). In mid-February I have a week off and getting the tank running is my main goal. Once it's going I'll see about pictures.

Photos of the RCSD won't show much... it's back in a corner of the tank that's only visible from the far end or above. The wave action is kind of interesting (it's a good thing the water level is lowered by the surge), but film can't capture water movement.

The RCSD is constructed from 1/2" glass, permanently installed in the tank. It occupies 12" at the end of the 8' tank. That end is behind a wall, so it's nearly invisible. Once the tank is decorated I'll only be able to see it from above. The surge opening measures about 12"x4" and the exhaust tube is 1.5" PVC. The hardest part was making it so I could open the top for maintenance... that involved constructing a gasket out of silicone. It's amazing how hard it can be to trap a 10G bubble of air two feet under water.

The surge duration is hard to measure, but I'm pretty sure it's under 2 seconds. Most of that time is at the beginning and end of the surge, as it clears and then refills the exhaust tube. Mid-cycle, the water rises in the chamber so fast my eye can't follow it -- partly because there's huge wave action inside the chamber.

H20ENG · 01/28/2003, 09:51 PM

Stuart,
Thanks for the update, sounds awesome.
The day I got the seascope article I ran to the shop and fabbed one out of a 5g bucket and 1.5" pvc. Worked first shot.( Working at a public aquarium made it easy to test anything new.

)
I've got old drawings I made of one piece designs like yours, corner units, etc. But never had the chance to build them. Funny it has been sparking such an interest now. They are loud! How did you silence yours, and deal with the spray?
I hear you about moving. I moved 9 months ago and still have most of my garage stuff packed. Tank is idling on the back patio still.

Cant wait to see more and hear about the solatubes.
Chris

CBOYFAN2020 · 01/28/2003, 11:19 PM

check your email and pm

Tom Hulse · 01/29/2003, 09:04 PM

Stuart,
How low in the tank is your 12x4" discharge? I curious about whether it would make a sand cloud if it was at the bottom of the tank. Does anyone have any experience w/ a fine sand bed and a RSCD? How about you galleon, I know you've built a lot of them. Thanks.
- Tom

SAT · 01/30/2003, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by H20ENG
They are loud! How did you silence yours, and deal with the spray?

Currently I just have a 90-degree bend at the top of the exhaust tube, which sprays across the top of the tank. The tank has a glass canopy, which contains the spray. And the tank is in a sound-insulated room. The resulting noise is still audible, but not objectionable (sounds a bit like surf).

Earlier I experimented with mufflers for the exhaust. I found I was able to contain it using a lot of 3" PVC sticking pretty high out the top of the tank. Ugly! I can get away with that in my setup since on one will see it but me, but I don't think it's necessary.

Note I'm bucking the trend by covering the tank with glass. I think I can get away with it because all the water movement is powered by air and most of the light is from the tubular skylights.

SAT · 01/30/2003, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tom Hulse
How low in the tank is your 12x4" discharge? I curious about whether it would make a sand cloud if it was at the bottom of the tank.

The surge chamber opening is right at the bottom of the tank. The depth is important because it affects the force of the surge. The opening is separated from the main tank, and the sand bed, by an L-shaped sheet of glass. The vertical part of the "L" is one side of the surge chamber. The horizontal part is about 12" high, keeping the surge off the sand bed. The effect is the surge enters from the upper-rear corner, then down to the chamber.

I havn't actually tried with with sand yet. If necessary I'll protect that section with rocks.

Tactstat · 02/12/2003, 01:26 PM

I will be posting pics tonight on a slightly modified version of an internal PVC surge device.

This is just a bump so I can find the post easier.

Right off its 3" dia and about 15" in overall height, though about 4" of that is dead space.

-Tac

H20ENG · 02/17/2003, 04:27 PM

Tactstat,
did you post, yet?

Agu · 02/17/2003, 07:56 PM

Here's another thread on the subject, http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hlight=airlift

It appears piercho has been trying out a few ideas.

The local club toured the Mote Aquarium in Sarasota last weekend, and they use internally mounted RCSD so I finally got to see one in action, BTW, theirs are all DIY with most of the parts coming from Home Depot

.

Agu

H20ENG · 02/17/2003, 08:36 PM

What size piping for the RCSD and vent? How deep? How much surge?
Details, please.

Tom Hulse · 02/18/2003, 12:19 AM

I officially nominate Agu as our RC Florida Ambassador In Charge Of Surge Information Distribution To The WWW. Yes, more info please! (This could require another trip to the aquarium

)

Fishboy93 · 09/26/2007, 05:04 PM

tomorrow I'm running down to ace harware to pick up the supplies to build one of these, I'm using a 10"x3"x7" tupperware container and 1" piping and following sea scope's plans. Thats about a .9G surge in a 50G tank. I'll post pics tomorrow or friday on how it goes.

hahnmeister · 09/27/2007, 12:42 AM

I put a couple in a 40B using 4" diameter, 12" high pipe and an alita... knocked everything over in that tank. The noise isnt so hard to muzzle though... just have to make a muffler like on a skimmer intake... only larger!

Fishboy93 · 09/27/2007, 02:38 PM

I Built and tested it today and I'm a bit dissapointed/frustrated. It did create a small surge, but I didn't get the tank toppling surge everyone else who has tried has had. However after leaving the house it suddenly dawned on me why it wasn't performing. I thought that the exhaust valve should be in the middle of the containder so at the bottom of the U of the exhaust valve the piping makes about a 4" run. This I believe is killing the performance because in order to vent the air it has to vent the water in the bottom of the U first, which creates a lot of backpressure. I'm including a crude ms paint drawing of what I'm talking about.

Fishboy93 · 09/27/2007, 02:57 PM

As promised pics

Fishboy93 · 09/27/2007, 03:14 PM

vid:

stony_corals · 10/05/2007, 09:52 AM

The reverse carlsons don't seem to do much.... I've been using a regular CSD, and it moves water. I'll try to get some pics, or a movie, but on a ~60 gallon, 48"x24"x12" sps frag tank, I have a 32 gallon CSD, that fills in 3-4 minutes, and emptys in like 45 seconds... a lot of surge.... It's so much surge that it can easily knock over maricultured acro colonies (you know the ones with the nice bases....

01/23/2003, 06:54 PM	#1
galleon Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,003	Reverse Carlson Surge Device I'd read awhile back about a few people playing around with them, any updates?

01/24/2003, 11:26 AM	#2
Tactstat Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Posts: 356	Well, I played with them once, and a 3" across 9" long tube will create a surge in a 46 gal tank that will knock over rocks... grin I will be designing a nano SPS tank with a pair of Reverse Carlsons as the only circulation soon (next month or so) I'll post updates then. By the way! Its been awhile since I was around so HI to ever one who remebers me! -Tact __________________ Eventually Something Witty

01/27/2003, 12:40 PM	#4
Tactstat Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Posts: 356	Thanks for the links, that wasn't what I was going to do orginally, but the external RCSD would be much prefered! More room inside for corals!!! Thanks,! __________________ Eventually Something Witty

01/28/2003, 11:19 AM	#5
SAT Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Berwyn, PA Posts: 4,073 Blog Entries: 1	I built one into my new 300G using the original (internal) method. It has 10G capacity and blows in less than 2 seconds, dropping the water level about an inch. __________________ Stuart Current Tank Info: 300G Caribbean biotype reef set up in 2003.

01/28/2003, 11:19 PM	#9
CBOYFAN2020 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: wichita, kansas Posts: 376	hey lance check your email and pm

01/26/2003, 04:25 PM	#3
Tom Hulse Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Marysville, WA Posts: 80	Here's the original link for the RSCD. Here is another link for an RSCD out of 6" pvc pipe. Tacstat, you better keep us posted, there's nothing I'm more interested in now. Thanks. - Tom

01/28/2003, 06:45 PM	#6
H20ENG Pro builder/aquarist hack Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: NORCAL (Vacaville, CA) Posts: 5,125	SAT, Any pics of your surge? Hows the house, the big tank, and the SUNLIGHT??? Chris

01/28/2003, 09:51 PM	#8
H20ENG Pro builder/aquarist hack Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: NORCAL (Vacaville, CA) Posts: 5,125	Stuart, Thanks for the update, sounds awesome. The day I got the seascope article I ran to the shop and fabbed one out of a 5g bucket and 1.5" pvc. Worked first shot.( Working at a public aquarium made it easy to test anything new. ) I've got old drawings I made of one piece designs like yours, corner units, etc. But never had the chance to build them. Funny it has been sparking such an interest now. They are loud! How did you silence yours, and deal with the spray? I hear you about moving. I moved 9 months ago and still have most of my garage stuff packed. Tank is idling on the back patio still. Cant wait to see more and hear about the solatubes. Chris

01/29/2003, 09:04 PM	#10
Tom Hulse Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Marysville, WA Posts: 80	Stuart, How low in the tank is your 12x4" discharge? I curious about whether it would make a sand cloud if it was at the bottom of the tank. Does anyone have any experience w/ a fine sand bed and a RSCD? How about you galleon, I know you've built a lot of them. Thanks. - Tom

02/12/2003, 01:26 PM	#13
Tactstat Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Posts: 356	I will be posting pics tonight on a slightly modified version of an internal PVC surge device. This is just a bump so I can find the post easier. Right off its 3" dia and about 15" in overall height, though about 4" of that is dead space. -Tac __________________ Eventually Something Witty

02/17/2003, 04:27 PM	#14
H20ENG Pro builder/aquarist hack Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: NORCAL (Vacaville, CA) Posts: 5,125	Tactstat, did you post, yet?

02/17/2003, 07:56 PM	#15
Agu Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Sarasota, Florida Posts: 30,279	Here's another thread on the subject, http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hlight=airlift It appears piercho has been trying out a few ideas. The local club toured the Mote Aquarium in Sarasota last weekend, and they use internally mounted RCSD so I finally got to see one in action, BTW, theirs are all DIY with most of the parts coming from Home Depot . Agu __________________ Less technology , more biology . Current Tank Info: 30 gallon half cube and 5.5, both reef tanks

02/17/2003, 08:36 PM	#16
H20ENG Pro builder/aquarist hack Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: NORCAL (Vacaville, CA) Posts: 5,125	What size piping for the RCSD and vent? How deep? How much surge? Details, please.

02/18/2003, 12:19 AM	#17
Tom Hulse Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Marysville, WA Posts: 80	Details I officially nominate Agu as our RC Florida Ambassador In Charge Of Surge Information Distribution To The WWW. Yes, more info please! (This could require another trip to the aquarium )

09/26/2007, 05:04 PM	#18
Fishboy93 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ft. Myers, Fl Posts: 197	tomorrow I'm running down to ace harware to pick up the supplies to build one of these, I'm using a 10"x3"x7" tupperware container and 1" piping and following sea scope's plans. Thats about a .9G surge in a 50G tank. I'll post pics tomorrow or friday on how it goes.

09/27/2007, 12:42 AM	#19
hahnmeister Moved On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Brew City, WI Posts: 10,156	I put a couple in a 40B using 4" diameter, 12" high pipe and an alita... knocked everything over in that tank. The noise isnt so hard to muzzle though... just have to make a muffler like on a skimmer intake... only larger!

09/27/2007, 02:38 PM	#20
Fishboy93 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ft. Myers, Fl Posts: 197	I Built and tested it today and I'm a bit dissapointed/frustrated. It did create a small surge, but I didn't get the tank toppling surge everyone else who has tried has had. However after leaving the house it suddenly dawned on me why it wasn't performing. I thought that the exhaust valve should be in the middle of the containder so at the bottom of the U of the exhaust valve the piping makes about a 4" run. This I believe is killing the performance because in order to vent the air it has to vent the water in the bottom of the U first, which creates a lot of backpressure. I'm including a crude ms paint drawing of what I'm talking about.

09/27/2007, 02:57 PM	#21
Fishboy93 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ft. Myers, Fl Posts: 197	As promised pics

09/27/2007, 03:14 PM	#22
Fishboy93 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ft. Myers, Fl Posts: 197	vid:

10/05/2007, 09:52 AM	#23
stony_corals Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,323	The reverse carlsons don't seem to do much.... I've been using a regular CSD, and it moves water. I'll try to get some pics, or a movie, but on a ~60 gallon, 48"x24"x12" sps frag tank, I have a 32 gallon CSD, that fills in 3-4 minutes, and emptys in like 45 seconds... a lot of surge.... It's so much surge that it can easily knock over maricultured acro colonies (you know the ones with the nice bases....