Is this the exciting future of Live Rock? Must See!!!

[ReefSmarts]

Oh man! This thread just awwwwed me big time! I am working on a living room cube set up and was going to go with real reef Rock, but now I just feel like I need this rock. It looks amazing! Such biodiversity etc!This really looks like a Great product and idea! Kudos for you and Walt teaming up on this one.

[liverock]

Originally Posted by Ink

If only those rocks could be shipped to Europe...

Luca

They can, just requires extra hoops to jump through and more cost....

Richard TBS
www.tbsaltwater.com

[d2mini]

Here' some pics of previous TBS rock that has gone in my tanks.

[Reel North]

Or Canada.......

It's not like we have oceans anything could survive in..... Lol

That is definitely pretty amazing. Live rock here is pretty lousy and sure doesn't come in like THAT

ITS DEFINITELY THE WAY OF THE FUTURE

[liverock]

Originally Posted by Reel North

Or Canada.......

It's not like we have oceans anything could survive in..... Lol

That is definitely pretty amazing. Live rock here is pretty lousy and sure doesn't come in like THAT

ITS DEFINITELY THE WAY OF THE FUTURE

Is easy to drive rock across the border from the US into Canada...I do that all the time for folks....

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2504743

Richard TBS
www.tbsaltwater.com

[adamwheel]

I recently purchased the package for my DIY 178 gal. There were some very different looking rocks in shipment 2 that look remarkably similar to your pics. I think I may have received some too.

I had no cycle at all (as Richard states) btw.

Cheers,

Adam

[liverock]

Originally Posted by adamwheel

I recently purchased the package for my DIY 178 gal. There were some very different looking rocks in shipment 2 that look remarkably similar to your pics. I think I may have received some too.

I had no cycle at all (as Richard states) btw.

Cheers,

Adam

Yup...you got some of the first I ever harvested and shipped....special pieces!

sea ya
Richard TBS
www.tbsaltwater.com

[joshky]

Originally Posted by d2mini

Chocolate covered popcorn rock. I really like the after photos, I hope someone can post some pictures of this rock again in another 4 months.

[d2mini]

Originally Posted by joshky

I hope someone can post some pictures of this rock again in another 4 months.

By then it will be covered in coral.

Long term, this isn't really about the looks.
It's about starting your tank off on the right foot and having an uber stable, fully functioning mini ecosystem from the get go.
No buying bottles of Dr Tims, no long cycle, no curing, no tank full of bleached white rock while you wait for it to color up, no P04 leaching, no waiting for months before adding fish and coral. Just a colorful, healthy, instant reef tank.

My current tank had to be setup as quickly as possible since a buddy was holding a bunch of my fish and coral from the previous tank. Once I got part 2 of The Package and waited for my parameters to level out, I got all my stuff back and put it in the tank. No losses. Like a tank transfer, some stuff took some time to adjust but that's to be expected. 3 years later my rock probably doesn't look much different than anyone else's 3 year old rock. What you can see of it, anyway.

[CuzzA]

I don't think it would be a bad idea to add some real live rock from time to time too. Biodiversity is king and if left unchecked in our closed systems many organisims will die off while others take over.

[rmcaum]

Nothing to do with this particular topic, but to add something to Dennis' advantage list; I got the package in a 29, then bought a 2 month old used system that had been started with brs dry rock. The new tank is three times the size with three times the fish and three times the coral. My package from TBS is over two years old. I find myself spending three times the amount of time watching and studying the 29 because of the diversity of life and I still find something new pretty often. The newer tank just looks barren in comparison, it completely lacks the biodiversity and hence the entertainment and excitement. I have considered staging the coral and fish while I order a package for the bigger tank. Totally worth it.

[LNell]

Originally Posted by CuzzA

I don't think it would be a bad idea to add some real live rock from time to time too. Biodiversity is king and if left unchecked in our closed systems many organisims will die off while others take over.

So true. I don't think enough people take this into consideration for their tanks, nor do I think a comparatively sterile fish-and-coral-only tank is the most exciting to watch. For those interested in reading up on this concept, you can start by googling "ecological succession."

[BigJohnny]

I considered doing this until I saw the price of "the package", so steep IMO. Obviously a great product but just not worth it, again IMO. Ever consider a budget version?

[shaggss]

Originally Posted by liverock

They can, just requires extra hoops to jump through and more cost....

Richard TBS
www.tbsaltwater.com

Hi Richard

Just FYI your website still says that you can't ship internationally:

International Shipments

We are no longer shipping internationally, as the permitting process can take more than six months and the costs have become prohibitive.

Any questions? Contact us.

[d2mini]

Originally Posted by BigJohnny

I considered doing this until I saw the price of "the package", so steep IMO. Obviously a great product but just not worth it, again IMO. Ever consider a budget version?

You couldn't be more wrong about The Package.
Do the math.
Even if you bought the rock alone at $5/lb, that's cheaper than most LFS and you can't even begin to compare the quality.
Then add in all the real live sand skimmed right off the ocean floor chock full of life. Then add in all the cleanup crew. Then add in the bags of freebies! Sponges, gorgonians, stars, urchins, etc.
Almost every single customer compares picking up Part 2 of the package to Christmas morning. Check out the testimonials in the sponsor forum.

When you add it all up it's well worth it.
And the benefits you reap are priceless.

[liverock]

Originally Posted by shaggss

Hi Richard

Just FYI your website still says that you can't ship internationally:

Yes I know....I leave it there...as international is a real ball of worms.....the costs involved make it impractical. The US fish and wildlife service charges $250.00 for clearing EACH shipment for export internationally of live rock.

So add on top of the cost of the rock and freight makes it very pricy.

Back in the day when I shipped overseas all the time it was a simple process, fill out a couple of forms, and a $35 clearance fee, and off it went overseas, was painless. It is not like that anymore, like everything else. LOL

Richard TBS
www.tbsaltwater.com

[CuzzA]

The U.S. government are experts at stymieing business.

As far as the $5-7 so called live rock you buy at a LFS goes, that, IMO is not live rock. Putting dry rock in a saltwater vat for a couple months is hardly what I would consider alive. Bacteria and a few pods, speckled with a little coraline algae is what I would describe as, "Damn son, you paid 2-3x the cost of dry rock for some extra water weight!"

Set "The Package" aside for a second because it can't be compared to just rock and instead just compare the cost of live rock alone. $5/lbs. of what we see above or $5-7/lbs. of this so called "high quality live rock" we commonly see at the LFS's below. And I'm not trying to knock the LFS, but buying rock for $.20-$.50 per pound and then selling it for $5-7 as live rock a month later is what I would describe as "too steep and not worth it".

The rock below is advertised for $7/lbs.

[Breadman03]

Originally Posted by BigJohnny

I considered doing this until I saw the price of "the package", so steep IMO. Obviously a great product but just not worth it, again IMO. Ever consider a budget version?

Buy a bunch of dry rock locally, then add in a smaller Package to bring in the diversity.

[GSMclowns]

Those live rocks directly from the ocean are great.. But once we put them into our tank, will the sponge and other creatures survive at all? and for how long?

[liverock]

Originally Posted by BigJohnny

I considered doing this until I saw the price of "the package", so steep IMO. Obviously a great product but just not worth it, again IMO. Ever consider a budget version?

Howdy

Live rock in the Package is $4 a pound...or by itself $5 a pound....

Richard TBS
www.tbsaltwater.com

[Devaji108]

Oh man I want some!!

[malacoda]

Originally Posted by GSMclowns

Those live rocks directly from the ocean are great.. But once we put them into our tank, will the sponge and other creatures survive at all? and for how long?

I've been doing a TON of research the past 6 weeks for a 120g build I hope to begin this fall. And from what I've seen in several threads (in addition to d2mini's awesome build threads), YES, the sponges and other creatures can survive for a very long time. Like any life in your tank, how long will depend on tank parameters, light placement, and good husbandry.

Wooglin's 13-year old tank is a great example of how long life on TBS rocks can last...

Here's his build thread which was started in 2003 and continued with fantastic updates and pics through 2008 (warning: it's so lengthy and packed with responses that it was split...):
First thread: http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=254435
Split thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=569267

And a 13-year old tank update he posted about a week ago: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2508395

Personally, I was sold on TBS rock within my first week of research here on RC and other popular aquarist forums. Seeing Wooglin's update last week (and the lengthy read thru of his original build threads that it led me to) merely cemented my decision.

When the summer chaos and travels end and I'm finally able to start my build this fall, I'll definitely be going with a TBS package.

[saf1]

It is good to see small business like TBS doing well in the US. Sort of tie a hobby, outdoors, ocean, and diving all into a business that hopefully is returning enough money to pay the bills, employees, and their retirement is a good thing. I would personally support that if I was to do another build or find a way to add some to my current 40.

There is another side to the hobby that people take pleasure in believe it or not and that is the complete cycle of a new tank. The curing of the rock and sand through various phases is a biological education love fest if one has the time and patience. I know I enjoyed my first experience with it.

In any case this is a good thing with results to show. And it probably is a positive for the hobby. That is also a good thing.

[BigJohnny]

Originally Posted by d2mini

You couldn't be more wrong about The Package.
Do the math.
Even if you bought the rock alone at $5/lb, that's cheaper than most LFS and you can't even begin to compare the quality.
Then add in all the real live sand skimmed right off the ocean floor chock full of life. Then add in all the cleanup crew. Then add in the bags of freebies! Sponges, gorgonians, stars, urchins, etc.
Almost every single customer compares picking up Part 2 of the package to Christmas morning. Check out the testimonials in the sponsor forum.

When you add it all up it's well worth it.
And the benefits you reap are priceless.

I was going to respond to this in specifics because I was put off by your surprising attack on my comments, but since you said I was wrong (it's my opinion, there is no right or wrong thank you very much), and then said that it was "priceless" (which most definitely is an opinion considering every item can actually be purchased at a price) I'm just going to say this:

I wasn't talking to you. Do you sell "the package"? No, you don't. My comment was clearly towards the man from TBS.

Do everyone a favor and don't turn this into an argument which ends up hijacking the thread. Especially if you like the vendor so much they really dont want to see that.

I stated my OPINION and asked a question of the vendor, he answered already.

Thanks

[BigJohnny]

Originally Posted by CuzzA

The U.S. government are experts at stymieing business.

As far as the $5-7 so called live rock you buy at a LFS goes, that, IMO is not live rock. Putting dry rock in a saltwater vat for a couple months is hardly what I would consider alive. Bacteria and a few pods, speckled with a little coraline algae is what I would describe as, "Damn son, you paid 2-3x the cost of dry rock for some extra water weight!"

Set "The Package" aside for a second because it can't be compared to just rock and instead just compare the cost of live rock alone. $5/lbs. of what we see above or $5-7/lbs. of this so called "high quality live rock" we commonly see at the LFS's below. And I'm not trying to knock the LFS, but buying rock for $.20-$.50 per pound and then selling it for $5-7 as live rock a month later is what I would describe as "too steep and not worth it".

The rock below is advertised for $7/lbs.

I would agree, I wouldn't buy live rock from lfs. I don't believe I ever said I would, nor did i compare it to any other option specifically. I simply said IMO it's too expensive and not worth it. However there are a plethora of other options besides "the package" and live rock from an lfs (also not all live rock at lfs is the same).

Thanks