Dino’s & Aptasia - is this the breaking point for a new reefer?

[Krchfam]

1-1/2 into a 90 gallon reef tank, corals starting to grow, fish happy and looks to be the start of a great tank. Then comes Aptasia and Dino’s.

Aptasia I just got peppermint shrimp from AlgaeBarn (wow they were small) and a nudibranch that I never see so hopefully I’ll see progress there

Dino’s are beating me down. I went through the Dr Tim’s Method and although initial success I’m back where it started and completely frustrated. My nitrates stay around 8-10 but my phosphates are 0 which I read is a problem. I’ve been dosing Neophos and still can’t get a reading.

Have a sump with sand/live rock, feed generously with frozen food and had been doing weekly
10% water changes which I stopped when started the Dr Tim’s process. Parameters are as follows:

PH -8
Alk 8.2
Cal - 425
Mag - 1500
Nit - 8-10
Pho’s - O
Temp 78-80.

Any other tried and true approaches? Thanks everyone.


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[djryan2000]

Originally Posted by Krchfam

1-1/2 into a 90 gallon reef tank, corals starting to grow, fish happy and looks to be the start of a great tank. Then comes Aptasia and Dino’s.

Aptasia I just got peppermint shrimp from AlgaeBarn (wow they were small) and a nudibranch that I never see so hopefully I’ll see progress there

Dino’s are beating me down. I went through the Dr Tim’s Method and although initial success I’m back where it started and completely frustrated. My nitrates stay around 8-10 but my phosphates are 0 which I read is a problem. I’ve been dosing Neophos and still can’t get a reading.

Have a sump with sand/live rock, feed generously with frozen food and had been doing weekly
10% water changes which I stopped when started the Dr Tim’s process. Parameters are as follows:

PH -8
Alk 8.2
Cal - 425
Mag - 1500
Nit - 8-10
Pho’s - O
Temp 78-80.

Any other tried and true approaches? Thanks everyone.


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What are your nutrient export methods? I’m guessing you have a large refugium?

If you can’t solve it, something like this may be worthwhile - https://fishofhex.com/products/dino-identification. This guy will examine the Dino under a microscope to figure out specifically which species it is and then give you a plan of action. Some Dinos thrive in different environments than others.


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[Krchfam]

Just sand/rock and chaeto in the refugium.


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[MarAquatic]

If you can use microscope to identify dino. Throw a uv sterilizer and watch them disappear

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[Krchfam]

I have a UV on my system, so I’m assuming that the type of Dino’s that I have are not in the water column. I actually replaced my bulb a few weeks ago thinking maybe it had lost its affect, but no change.


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[MarAquatic]

Originally Posted by Krchfam

I have a UV on my system, so I’m assuming that the type of Dino’s that I have are not in the water column. I actually replaced my bulb a few weeks ago thinking maybe it had lost its affect, but no change.


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Anyway to put the input directly in the display?

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[Michael Hoaster]

djryan2000's suggestion above of the dino guy sounds awesome!

This is the first I've heard of UV not working on dinos. Is it possible you're pumping water through it too fast? Bigger is not better, when it comes to pumps for UV. The more 'dwell time' the better, so a smaller pump is better. If possible, try to slow the flow rate through your UV. Also, don't expect to see any difference from day to day. It takes months.

Beating dinos requires a long game with a solid plan. In my winning battle I went after their food source, added predators and brought in competition for nutrients, along with continuous UV.

Food. What do dinos eat? Who knows. I went with the 'you-are-what-you-eat' theory, so you don't have to know what they eat. I manually removed dinos every other day. Where is their most concentrated food source? In the water column? Nope. It's in the dinos themselves.

Predators. I added 1000 pods and an army of reproducing snails, even a few mollies (that I never fed, so they constantly grazed).

Competition. I wanted a fast-growing macro algae to outcompete the dinos for nutrients. I used Ulva. It grows very fast and is easily removed.

Once I had them on the ropes, I hit them with a knock-out punch - a 4 day blackout, followed by a large water change.

That's what worked for me. It took months. Good luck!

[Krchfam]

I guess I could buy a separate unit and run it from tank through the UV and back. But I k ow some Dino’s are not affected by the UV system. I don’t really see it on my rocks and coral, it’s just all over my sand.


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[Michael Hoaster]

Yes, I just put the UV pump right in the tank. It wasn't pretty but it was effective.

[Krchfam]

My pump
Is slightly
Undersized so my flow is not too fast last time I looked at the calculations. It’s a 15 amp UV, guess I could
Replace it with a 25 W unit but I think the 15W is rated for 90 gallons.

You are correct, I could syphon everyday into filter sock.

I’m confused about the inability to get Phosphates reading. I would think after dosing it, I would see something??? What I read is 0 on phosphates and nitrates can contribute to Dino’s but I have nitrates and no phosphates. So where are the phosphates going?

Yes, agree that the Dino guy might be worth trying. Going to investigate that further!


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[Michael Hoaster]

It's likely the dinos are soaking up phosphates, leading to zero readings, just like algae does. Adding phosphates are just feeding them more. I don't subscribe to the 'low nutrients lead to dinos' theory. Both of my dino experiences followed high nutrient events.

I'd cut back on feeding and dosing to limit possible food sources.

[Krchfam]

Agree, I struggle
To understand the nutrient piece. I’m with you that it’s feels I’m just feeding it. . . It’s why you knock them down with a 3 day blackout because you starve them of light. . .

So I may stop the phosphate additive . . . I ordered the Dino guy testing kit and will keep posted on how that goes.


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[djryan2000]

Originally Posted by Krchfam

Agree, I struggle
To understand the nutrient piece. I’m with you that it’s feels I’m just feeding it. . . It’s why you knock them down with a 3 day blackout because you starve them of light. . .

So I may stop the phosphate additive . . . I ordered the Dino guy testing kit and will keep posted on how that goes.


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One of the things I remember from microbiology course is that dinoflagellates thrive when biological diversity is low. When there’s diversity they tend to be outcompeted and exist in small numbers. I don’t know if you’ve tried it, but maybe dosing competing bacteria might help.


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[Krchfam]

I’ve tried the Dr Tims. . . But is this the correct “competing” bacteria?


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[Krchfam]

The “renew” which I believe is the competing bacteria.


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[Krchfam]

Dino’s 4. Me 0.

I’m losing.


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[Daddyrawg]

what worked for me was no water changes, lights out 3 days with a blanket over tank, and vibrant

[Krchfam]

Did the same (Dr Tims Method). Cleared it but 2 days later it was back.

Tried dosing phosphates, nitrates are already high.

Increased temp.

Siphoned it out every day.



I’m obviously not smart enough to understand all of the components of reefing. Just frustrating.


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[djryan2000]

Originally Posted by Krchfam

I’ve tried the Dr Tims. . . But is this the correct “competing” bacteria?


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I’ve heard mixed results of people using live rock enhance opposed to Dr. Tim’s. It might be worth a shot.


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[Krchfam]

I will try that. Thanks.


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[djryan2000]

Originally Posted by Krchfam

Did the same (Dr Tims Method). Cleared it but 2 days later it was back.

Tried dosing phosphates, nitrates are already high.

Increased temp.

Siphoned it out every day.



I’m obviously not smart enough to understand all of the components of reefing. Just frustrating.


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So I just read your original post again. It’s a silly question, but are you sure it’s dino? I used to have this nasty brown hair algae that had snot on it. I posted a photo on reddit and a bunch of people immediately replied that it’s definitely Dino. My water parameters were similar to yours (nitrates were a little higher, phosphate reading 0).

It ended up being hair algae pulling phosphate out of the water and the snot was composed of micro bubbles from my skimmer that weren’t clearly coming out. I only figured it out because an LFS employee said to rip some out and turn off my skimmer for 48 hours and see if the snot goes away. It did.

Not saying this is definitely the case but I’m wondering if it’s a possibility. It certainly was a weird scenario.


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[Krchfam]

I think it is. Every test I have done shows that it’s Dino. Pull some out, shake it up and it “clumps” together. I have sent some samples to the contact someone gave me above so
Maybe he will confirm with the telescope. Although I don’t seem to see bubbles on mine, but I’m also cleaning it off rather quickly. plus I treated twice with chemiclean as I thought it was cyno and that didn’t seem to work either. What solved yours?

The low phosphate and high nitrate is baffling to me though. This is the one piece that doesn’t seem to fit anything I read. Most everything is low on both. . . Not just one.

When I try to dose phosphate I still can’t get a reading. Using salifert test so have a Hannah checker ordered and on the way.

New UV bulb

And not to mention the F aptasia everywhere and no signs of my nudibranchs or peppermint shrimps . . .


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[djryan2000]

Originally Posted by Krchfam

I think it is. Every test I have done shows that it’s Dino. Pull some out, shake it up and it “clumps” together. I have sent some samples to the contact someone gave me above so
Maybe he will confirm with the telescope. Although I don’t seem to see bubbles on mine, but I’m also cleaning it off rather quickly. plus I treated twice with chemiclean as I thought it was cyno and that didn’t seem to work either. What solved yours?

The low phosphate and high nitrate is baffling to me though. This is the one piece that doesn’t seem to fit anything I read. Most everything is low on both. . . Not just one.

When I try to dose phosphate I still can’t get a reading. Using salifert test so have a Hannah checker ordered and on the way.

New UV bulb

And not to mention the F aptasia everywhere and no signs of my nudibranchs or peppermint shrimps . . .


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Darn. I never tried the clumping test. What fixed mine was just pulling it all out and changing out a lot of water and adding a CUC. I didn’t have Dino, I just had a weird case of hair algae. I remember my LFS telling me to watch the snails - if they dropped dead or just completely ignored it I had dino, but if they ate it and were fine it was algae. The former is what happened


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[Krchfam]

My cuc is not dying, but they are also not eating it. . .


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[djryan2000]

Originally Posted by Krchfam

My cuc is not dying, but they are also not eating it. . .


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I’d say it’s not the weird brown algae I had. I thought it was worth a mention if no dino treatment has worked for you.


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