Ich treatment

[gareth.hubbarde]

Hi guys, got a white spot outbreak in the tsnk, what's the best treatment available for it please. Reef medic from poly labs is available from Lfs tomorrow or I can order kordon ich attack to be here Sunday. Lost a clownfish today hoping to get treatment started ASAP and hopefully not lose anything else.

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[Uncle99]

Unless you have a fish only, pull all of them and put in QT.
Use hypo, TTM or copper to treat fish
DT goes fishless for 72 days

This is all that works, what you mention does not work, save your money and fish

Member Humblefish has the best detail available
I think he just posted a link in the fish diease section.
Follow his advice

Please post all fish you have.

[gareth.hubbarde]

Originally Posted by Uncle99

Unless you have a fish only, pull all of them and put in QT.

Use hypo, TTM or copper to treat fish

DT goes fishless for 72 days



This is all that works, what you mention does not work, save your money and fish



Member Humblefish has the best detail available

I think he just posted a link in the fish diease section.

Follow his advice



Please post all fish you have.

New aquarium

300l (80g) juwel rio
40kg sand
40kg live rock
Deltec mce600 skimmer
1000lph filter pump
Filter floss
Carbon
2 x 2800 lph circulation pumps (fluval sea 3, hydor koralia 3200)
1x hydor koralia 900 pump

1 black sailfin blenny
1 purple firefish
1 one spot Foxface
1 percula clown
1 Squaretail Bristletooth Tang (Indian kole)
1 long nose Hawk fish
2 carpenters flasher wrasse

1 strawberry conch
3 nassarius snails
1 skunk cleaner shrimp
1 boxer shrimp





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[gareth.hubbarde]

Originally Posted by Uncle99

Unless you have a fish only, pull all of them and put in QT.

Use hypo, TTM or copper to treat fish

DT goes fishless for 72 days



This is all that works, what you mention does not work, save your money and fish



Member Humblefish has the best detail available

I think he just posted a link in the fish diease section.

Follow his advice



Please post all fish you have.

I don't have a qt setup, I do have old tank I can use, shall I transfer water straight out of display tank to fill it, should I put any live rock in there? It's a 24 gallon aquarium that was previously reef setup. Do I need extra pumps etc for fish or would just the filter pump be OK?

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[monkeysee1]

Hi-
NO - the hospital tank CANNOT have ANYTHING from your old tank in it. Just keep it bare with NO substrate OR decor....
...you can pick up a 10 or 20 gallon setup at ANY pet store for short change...including lighting and a pump...use kick start bacteria to cycle it, put your fish in it...start hypo by gradually lowering your salinity to 1.009...keep it there for 6-8 weeks while the ICH dies off in your main DT....
LOTS of info on the web how to do hypo salinity.....

[bshow24]

Originally Posted by monkeysee1

Hi-
NO - the hospital tank CANNOT have ANYTHING from your old tank in it. Just keep it bare with NO substrate OR decor....
...you can pick up a 10 or 20 gallon setup at ANY pet store for short change...including lighting and a pump...use kick start bacteria to cycle it, put your fish in it...start hypo by gradually lowering your salinity to 1.009...keep it there for 6-8 weeks while the ICH dies off in your main DT....
LOTS of info on the web how to do hypo salinity.....

You do want to put some PVC pipe and connectors in the tank to give the fish some hiding places. However, don't use anything from your display tank. Keep the display tank running (don't need the lights on) but fishless for 72 days.

The preferred method for curing ich is TTM (this would require you to purchase another tank to use in conjunction with the other old tank). If you are unable to get another tank and want to use just the old setup, hopefully it's large enough for all those fish otherwise you may need another tank anyways, look into copper/cupramine and chloroquine phosphate. CP is the closest thing to a "miracle" drug you can find with fish, but make sure you get a pharmaceutical grade of it, and also research the process because I believe it's bad for wrasses. Those would need to go into copper.

Just remember, you have 72 days before you want to put them into the DT, so you have PLENTY of time to get them cured.

[gareth.hubbarde]

Originally Posted by bshow24

You do want to put some PVC pipe and connectors in the tank to give the fish some hiding places. However, don't use anything from your display tank. Keep the display tank running (don't need the lights on) but fishless for 72 days.



The preferred method for curing ich is TTM (this would require you to purchase another tank to use in conjunction with the other old tank). If you are unable to get another tank and want to use just the old setup, hopefully it's large enough for all those fish otherwise you may need another tank anyways, look into copper/cupramine and chloroquine phosphate. CP is the closest thing to a "miracle" drug you can find with fish, but make sure you get a pharmaceutical grade of it, and also research the process because I believe it's bad for wrasses. Those would need to go into copper.



Just remember, you have 72 days before you want to put them into the DT, so you have PLENTY of time to get them cured.

Woke up this morning and the other clownfish was dead, odd but she didn't really have spots, just pale.
Was thinking, to get the fish out of Dt I'm pretty much going to have to strip it down and to catch them. Would it be better to remove the few corals I have, (only just started on softies), catching the 1 shrimp I have and few snails. Putting them in different tank and then copper treatment the display tank? Just a thought.
My old reef tank is 24g, has a heater, pump, sump at the back of the tank. Would you advise against a bit of live rock for bio filtration or just use ceramic ring type of thing?

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[gareth.hubbarde]

Originally Posted by bshow24

You do want to put some PVC pipe and connectors in the tank to give the fish some hiding places. However, don't use anything from your display tank. Keep the display tank running (don't need the lights on) but fishless for 72 days.



The preferred method for curing ich is TTM (this would require you to purchase another tank to use in conjunction with the other old tank). If you are unable to get another tank and want to use just the old setup, hopefully it's large enough for all those fish otherwise you may need another tank anyways, look into copper/cupramine and chloroquine phosphate. CP is the closest thing to a "miracle" drug you can find with fish, but make sure you get a pharmaceutical grade of it, and also research the process because I believe it's bad for wrasses. Those would need to go into copper.



Just remember, you have 72 days before you want to put them into the DT, so you have PLENTY of time to get them cured.

Seachem cupramine is available, would that be a good start?

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[bshow24]

Cupramine works. Just make sure you get an ammonia checker, the one that hangs in the tank. And also a test kit, Seachem or Salifert. I used salifert for mine when dosing cupramine.

Again, do some research on how the entire process works. Some fish don't do well in copper, so look that up. Also, the instructions on the bottle itself aren't really the best. A few key points to remember though:

1) dose slowly, rather than 2 days to get to the therapeutic levels, take 5-7 days.
2) never dose any ammonia medication directly into the tank with the cupramine.
3) do not start until you have every test kit...cupramine can be dangerous if dosed too quickly or too much.

[gareth.hubbarde]

Originally Posted by bshow24

Cupramine works. Just make sure you get an ammonia checker, the one that hangs in the tank. And also a test kit, Seachem or Salifert. I used salifert for mine when dosing cupramine.

Again, do some research on how the entire process works. Some fish don't do well in copper, so look that up. Also, the instructions on the bottle itself aren't really the best. A few key points to remember though:

1) dose slowly, rather than 2 days to get to the therapeutic levels, take 5-7 days.
2) never dose any ammonia medication directly into the tank with the cupramine.
3) do not start until you have every test kit...cupramine can be dangerous if dosed too quickly or too much.

I have a full test kit so that's not a problem. Thinking of moving inverts to my old tank then dose the display which would then be fowlr, would that be OK, or will it kill the bacteria on the live rock? Sorry lots of questions.

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[bshow24]

Don't do it in the DT. Then you'll have rock absorbing copper and it's a whole different issue. Better to keep everything in display and move the fish to another tank. Just use a quick bacteria starter (Dr. Tim's) and keep an eye on ammonia. Do water changes to keep it down. On my QT, I run a HOB filter without the actual filter, just a piece of sponge. Gives me a place for bacteria to culture. You don't want any carbon as that will take out the copper.

[Sk8r]

Treating the DT will KILL the DT and contaminate all rock and sand. MUST be done in a bare tank. Inverts and corals cannot catch ich. Keep your DT fish-free for 72 days and it will starve out the ich parasite. Treat your fish in a separate tank or pair of tanks, either with med or with tank transfer, which is described in a post at the top of the forum.

[HumbleFish]

First thing we need to do is help you determine which disease(s) you are actually dealing with here. It would be unusual for clownfish to succumb to Ich, but very possible if there is Brooklynella or Velvet in your aquarium.

Did the clowns show white marks/smudges like you see here? https://humble.fish/brooklynella/

[gareth.hubbarde]

Originally Posted by HumbleFish

First thing we need to do is help you determine which disease(s) you are actually dealing with here. It would be unusual for clownfish to succumb to Ich, but very possible if there is Brooklynella or Velvet in your aquarium.

Did the clowns show white marks/smudges like you see here? https://humble.fish/brooklynella/

Not really, the fish that died were all lathargic and seemed to be gasping. All water parameters are fine. The kole tang is the other one that died. The Foxface is showing spots but they appear black. It is also still very active and eating.

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[HumbleFish]

Rabbitfish have a serum in their mucous coat which makes them resistant to Ich and presumably other parasites.

As mentioned above, I think your only viable option is to pull & treat them all in a QT. Cupramine @ 0.5 ppm for 30 days would be a good first step. I would also deworm these fish using praziquantel. I believe Tremazol is one prazi based med over on your side of the pond: https://www.sera.de/en/product/fresh...onal-tremazol/

[gareth.hubbarde]

Originally Posted by HumbleFish

Rabbitfish have a serum in their mucous coat which makes them resistant to Ich and presumably other parasites.

As mentioned above, I think your only viable option is to pull & treat them all in a QT. Cupramine @ 0.5 ppm for 30 days would be a good first step. I would also deworm these fish using praziquantel. I believe Tremazol is one prazi based med over on your side of the pond: https://www.sera.de/en/product/fresh...onal-tremazol/

Thanks will definitely look at those once I get a quarantine tank setup.

On a fish note the fish still kicking are showing no signs of illness really. Longnose hawkfish, purple firefish, male carpenters flasher all doing well and eating loads. Same with shrimps, cleaner, boxer and sexy all fine.

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[j.falk]

Sorry to hear you are going through this.

[bshow24]

make sure you leave all of the shrimp on your DT. They are immune to the parasites plus copper will kill them.

As long as the fish continue eating, this should be a very easy process. It’ll just take some patience on your end to wait the full 72 days before putting them back into the DT.

Humble offers great advice. I’ve followed his postings for any and all types of fish treatments. Make sure you utilize what he’s posted or just ask if you have any questions.

[Uncle99]

Originally Posted by gareth.hubbarde

Thanks will definitely look at those once I get a quarantine tank setup.

On a fish note the fish still kicking are showing no signs of illness really. Longnose hawkfish, purple firefish, male carpenters flasher all doing well and eating loads. Same with shrimps, cleaner, boxer and sexy all fine.

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If you have diagnosed Ick, only fish get Ick so the rest of your stuff in the DT is fine. To break the Ick cycle, the DT must have no fish, corals and inverts stay along with sand and rock, 72 days, no fish, nothing else will work.

So the fish, if they look, swim, eat and behave normally, just don't medicate the QT, but be prepared to take immediate action if something can be identified.

You need to decide what action and this requires ID. The pic does resemble Ick, but velvet is possible. Velvet kills quickly in 24/72 hours, ick is a much slower process.

The important part is to deprive Ick from its host ( the fish) no host, no ICK, but this takes at least 60 days but I would go the full 72.

Once we separate our fish, we can assist them easier in the controlled environment.

A small 20-40 gallon away is a great investment. I never cycled mine, just exchanged 10% water daily. I use hypo for delicates, (tangs and such) cupramine for the hardy ones like clowns.

Low stress well fed fish will either not get Ick or be able to survive it.

They will stay in the QT until the DT is ready.

[gareth.hubbarde]

Originally Posted by Uncle99

If you have diagnosed Ick, only fish get Ick so the rest of your stuff in the DT is fine. To break the Ick cycle, the DT must have no fish, corals and inverts stay along with sand and rock, 72 days, no fish, nothing else will work.



So the fish, if they look, swim, eat and behave normally, just don't medicate the QT, but be prepared to take immediate action if something can be identified.



You need to decide what action and this requires ID. The pic does resemble Ick, but velvet is possible. Velvet kills quickly in 24/72 hours, ick is a much slower process.



The important part is to deprive Ick from its host ( the fish) no host, no ICK, but this takes at least 60 days but I would go the full 72.



Once we separate our fish, we can assist them easier in the controlled environment.



A small 20-40 gallon away is a great investment. I never cycled mine, just exchanged 10% water daily. I use hypo for delicates, (tangs and such) cupramine for the hardy ones like clowns.



Low stress well fed fish will either not get Ick or be able to survive it.



They will stay in the QT until the DT is ready.

Do I need to keep qt running continuously? Or is it something that can be run only when needed, for instance new fish before they go in main tank? When setting up qt (I'm going to use my old 24g tank) no substrate, no rock is that right? Seems a bit cruel to a new fish to have nowhere to hide. In main dt with no fish in it I would still need to feed a bit plus have lights on for the corals yes? Sorry for the questions.

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[j.falk]

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...ine+tank+setup

[Ab129]

I just went, or am actually still going through this. I’m at day 40 with a fishless DT. Only one fish made it and I put him through TTM which sounds like a real pain but isn’t that bad at all.
As you said, getting the fish out of DT is the hardest part.
I used a trap, baited it with food and sat there for over a half hour like an idiot holding a shoelace I rigged up to spring the trap.
An easier way might be to get a couple of 40 gal trash cans, siphon out the majority of your tank water. This will leave you with a low water level and should make it easier to catch some fish.
If you need to pull some rock or corals out while you’re fishing just place them in the trash cans with your tank water.
Good luck and please give updates!

[gareth.hubbarde]

At the moment I have no way of setting up a qt, even though I have a tank in the garage ready to i have no means of filling it up. I don't have my own ro supply and until I move house later in the year will be using pre mixed salt water. Unfortunately I cannot afford the cost of 4 full barrels of this for the 24g tank. Mrs on maternity and pay dropped this month. I am treating tank with poly labs medic and a local reefer gave me some "everythings aquatic medicated food". Have had no new losses at the moment. All fish in the tank are eating plenty and swimming around a good amount. The Foxface seems to have got a bad left eye, will try to get a picture. Unfortunately I'm just trying what I can, I know it's not what is recommended but at this time it's all I can do I'm afraid.
If I had to price up setting up qt it be something like 4 barrel of saltwater £32, Dr. Tim's bacteria £25, upvc bits £4 so over £50 which I don't have at the moment.

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[gareth.hubbarde]

Foxface with dodgy left eye. Still swimming around eating well.

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[j.falk]

When I see cloudy eyes on fish, the first thing I always do is a water change to clean up the water. You might want to check your parameters and see if you have something seriously off...