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Unread 07/20/2018, 08:09 PM   #1
Reefers4U
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Stubbon, Elevated Nitrate and Phoshates

Frustrated because I've lost a nice colony of acropora.

Tank is about three years old now.

Nitrates are ~50ppm (salifert)
PO4 is .29 (Hanna Checker)

All other parameters are nominal

I have done three water changes now and can't get NO3/PO4 under control. I'm running GFO and Nitrate Reducer by Seachem (been running for just under a week).

My skimmer is rated for the tank (top if its range).

I'm starting to suspect the reef mud is my refugium is giving something off?

Any ideas as to what would be causing these levels to rise even when running GFO?

Thanks to all


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Current Tank Info: 120 Visio // Radions // Eschopps Skimmer // MP40 x2 // Tunze ATO // BRS Dosing Pumps and Dual Reactor // Apex Gold //
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Unread 07/21/2018, 01:47 PM   #2
bertoni
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With the phosphate level that high, the GFO might be exhausted in a few hours. You could try replacing it more often, but that can get expensive. The live rock might be leaching phosphate, which is another common issue. I'd probably stop feeding for a few days and replace the GFO a few times. There are cheaper ways to go if the GFO is getting pricey. How much media are you using?


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Unread 07/21/2018, 05:23 PM   #3
mcgyvr
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Likely overfeeding and insufficient/under performing bacterial population..
How much live rock is in the tank?
Have you looked into carbon dosing? (vinegar/vodka,etc....)

How big of a water change have you been doing?
A 50% water change will typically drop nitrates by 50%


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Unread 07/21/2018, 05:52 PM   #4
Uncle99
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Both of course way to high, I assume this has been creeping for some time as your tank is not new.
Reduce feedings, check foods for phosphate.
I used NoPox to reduce my nitrate at one point from 40ppm to 5ppm and phosphate to about .15.
I furthered the .15 to .02-.04 by using Rowaphos.
You can also use vodka, some use vinegar, some use both, however I don't use vinegar, bad cyno experience, and NoPox is actually cheaper than vodka in Canada.


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Unread 07/21/2018, 11:48 PM   #5
Reefers4U
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Hey thanks everyone for the great wisdom. Many hours of experience went into your responses and I appropriate that very much.


Update.

Actions:

Just did a water change of 15 gals and cleaned out the overflow a little.
I realized my RODI water is kicking out 4 TDS even after replacing all the filters - to eliminate that as a trace source I've stopped using it.

I've also cleaned out my top off containers.

I only feed once a day and all the food is consumed within 15 minutes. The food is New Life Spectrum.




New params:
PO4 - .23
N03 - 30? these color kits are not easy to read.



per bertoni I've replaced the GFO in the dual BRS reactor.

mcgyvr - my ? with that hypothesis is if it was a lack of rock or bacteria why now, it's been a stable system for years. About 70-90 lbs of live rock. Water changes are 20 gal at a time.


In the overflow found 5 or 6 dead mangrove leaves and did a quick cross reference. This tread came up.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1523310

"I can tell you the main "no no" with mangroves though, don't ever let the dead leaves fall into the tank. The leaves release tannins, or a horticulture term "tea" into the water. The tannins can be toxic in nature, and you shouldn't let them decompose in the tank."

Is it possible the mangrove leaves are the culprit?

I've resisted any vodka dosing at this point to keep things as sustainable as possible. I know very little about the process or how it might be a solution here.


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Current Tank Info: 120 Visio // Radions // Eschopps Skimmer // MP40 x2 // Tunze ATO // BRS Dosing Pumps and Dual Reactor // Apex Gold //
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Unread 07/22/2018, 10:35 AM   #6
PatW
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Another way to export nitrates and phosphates is to put some Chaeto, a macro algae, ito your refugium. It will need a really powerful refugium light. Chaeto will suck up phosphates and nitrates as it grows. Periodically, it will fill up its space and you will need to remove about half of it. Bulk Reef Supply has a pot load of you tube videos on this.


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Unread 07/22/2018, 10:44 PM   #7
bertoni
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How quickly the food is consumed is largely irrelevant. What goes in, mostly comes back out. The total volume of food going into the tank is important, though.


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Unread 07/24/2018, 08:59 PM   #8
Reefers4U
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bertoni View Post
How quickly the food is consumed is largely irrelevant. What goes in, mostly comes back out. The total volume of food going into the tank is important, though.
This is a well stated rule.


UPDATE:

PO4 .09
NO3 ~.25

Better but still not great.

I've got some Cheato running in my fuge and it's not doing well at export - most if it gets covered with red slime.

I've done another water change and cleaned out the overflow.

I will continue to do water changes and monitor the levels to see if they rise and look into ordering some Rowaphos


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Current Tank Info: 120 Visio // Radions // Eschopps Skimmer // MP40 x2 // Tunze ATO // BRS Dosing Pumps and Dual Reactor // Apex Gold //
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Unread 07/24/2018, 09:49 PM   #9
bertoni
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That sounds like a reasonable plan to me. I think the nitrate number probably is fine. I might work a bit on the phosphate level, but even that is debatable. Please let us know how the tank progresses! Good luck!


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Unread 07/25/2018, 03:58 AM   #10
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If you have your values at .09 and .25, I would say those are pretty spot on now. I keep my tank around .03 PO4 and .25 - .50 NO3. I find my corals like these values the best.



No one tries for all 0's anymore as we have learned corals need a little nitrate and phosphate to survive and thrive.


I could never get chaeto to thrive in my system no matter what I did for it. I switched to an algae turf scrubber and could not be happier with the results.


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