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Unread 10/08/2017, 09:34 PM   #1
ozorowsky
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340 gallon aquarium build thread

Hello all,

My wife/son and I are building a 340 gallon in wall aquarium. I'm making this post to kind of document our progress, as well as get pointers along the way.

The first question I have is that of stand stability. As of this writing I have built the skeleton of my stand, and put the aquarium on the stand and filled with water. Its holding solid, but the one thing I don't like is if I push the tank back and forth width wise, the stand seems to rock a little. It didn't fall over or anything, but its not that nice solid feel as I would expect.

The way I built the stand is I took 2x4's and made a rectangle 72"x30"

From there, I took 2x4's and attached (on the inside of the base) the top and bottom rectangles via stainless steel screws.

Next, I put 2x6's in between the 2x4 rectangles I initially built.

From there, I put 2x4's joining the widths of the tank

Then I put a board on the top of the stand screwing it down, then put the aquarium on top of this board.

Is there something I could have/should have done to make this stand a little stronger? I don't want this to become a recipe for disaster.


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Unread 10/08/2017, 09:36 PM   #2
ozorowsky
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Attaching additional pictures


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Unread 10/08/2017, 09:41 PM   #3
ozorowsky
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I also have another question;

I'm planning out my plumbing, and not sure how to attach my return from my pump (3/4" ID hose) to this flex hose (see attached picture)

Does anyone know how to do this?


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Unread 10/08/2017, 10:10 PM   #4
ca1ore
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That is a drain hose not a pressure-rated return. BTW, you should ask the mods to move this thread to the large tank forum where it 'belongs'.

In terms of your stand, skinning it with plywood will prevent it from racking. If you don't plan to skin it, then a strip of plywood running diagonally across the back will stiffen it as well. FWIW, you are going to want to put a piece of styrofoam between the tank and the top of the stand.


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Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones!

Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs
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Unread 10/08/2017, 10:13 PM   #5
ozorowsky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ca1ore View Post
That is a drain hose not a pressure-rated return. BTW, you should ask the mods to move this thread to the large tank forum where it 'belongs'.
Gotcha! Good point!!! So I should run straight PVC down, and somehow tap my pump into it. Any ideas how to do that?

Sorry about putting this here; figured I could make this a build thread on top of having a place to ask questions.


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Unread 10/08/2017, 10:17 PM   #6
ca1ore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozorowsky View Post
Sorry about putting this here.
You just may get more useful advice in the big boy toy forum


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Simon

Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones!

Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs
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Unread 10/08/2017, 10:20 PM   #7
ca1ore
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It would be help in advising if you would describe the tank in more detail or even better add a few pics. Assuming you are using standard PVC piping, then simply buy a female adapter fitting that matches the threads on the output of your pump. Most folks put a ball valve on the output as well.


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Simon

Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones!

Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs
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Unread 10/08/2017, 10:26 PM   #8
ozorowsky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ca1ore View Post
It would be help in advising if you would describe the tank in more detail or even better add a few pics. Assuming you are using standard PVC piping, then simply buy a female adapter fitting that matches the threads on the output of your pump. Most folks put a ball valve on the output as well.
Sure! What would ya like to know about the tank?

Why put a ball valve? A way to control flow? I for sure will have a check valve.


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Unread 10/08/2017, 10:40 PM   #9
ca1ore
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Just suggesting that if you post a few pics of the tank and some details about how you plan to set it up, folks can offer suggestions. For example, most will advise against using a check valve. I stopped using them about 15 years ago.


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Simon

Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones!

Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs
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Unread 10/08/2017, 10:43 PM   #10
ozorowsky
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Originally Posted by ca1ore View Post
Just suggesting that if you post a few pics of the tank and some details about how you plan to set it up, folks can offer suggestions. For example, most will advise against using a check valve. I stopped using them about 15 years ago.
Interesting; whats wrong w/ a check valve?

I like the check valve so if tank loses power, I don't have to stress about my sump over flowing everywhere. What other options do I have if I don't put a check valve there?


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Unread 10/09/2017, 05:04 AM   #11
shaginwagon13
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340 gallon aquarium build thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozorowsky View Post
Interesting; whats wrong w/ a check valve?

I like the check valve so if tank loses power, I don't have to stress about my sump over flowing everywhere.
In theory everyone loves check valves; the reality is that check valves all fail sooner or later. All of them get stuck open eventually and this is when you have real problems of you are relying on them to prevent water backflow and don’t have enough room in your sump to handle the water. I don’t use check valves because I like to know and I make sure at all times that my sump has enough room to handle the display tank water which siphons down into the fish room when I turn the return pumps off or power is lost. This way, I know to always make sure I have enough room to handle the backflow of water in my fish room.

Absolutely make sure you brace and reinforce the stand. From my personal sanity standpoint, the stand I usually always get fabricated out of steel at a CNC shop. For me, I want to make sure it’s perfectly level, and I want to know that it’s made out of 2” steel so there is never any concern with the stand failing. Since your going the wooden stand route, absolutely make sure it’s rock solid and level. You want absolutely no movement, that’s a disaster just waiting to happen when the tank is full.

You will also want to add 3/4” plywood and 3/4 to 1” of foam under the tank (it goes tank, foam, plywood and then the stand). The foam allows for natural settling of the tank is not 100% level and it also spreads any pressure spots over a wide area which reduces the stress and pressure on the glass. Inside the tank, it would also be a good idea to place rocks not on the glass itself but on egg-crate. The crate is covered by sand when you add that to your tank, and again, spreads the weight and any pressure spots over the tank bottom to help minimize cracks.

The picture you posted of the drain line cannot be used as a pressure line. Make sure you order flex pvc (if that’s the route you plan to go) that’s pressure rated. Also, just so you are aware, pvc glue for flex pvc is different than the clue for regular pvc pipe. For flex pvc, the glue hardens but has a little more give to account for the flex in the pvc. ALWAYS make sure you use pvc primer and ALWAYS make sure you rough up the surface of both the pipe and the fittings before you prime and glue. I always use a chamfer as well, it keeps the glue from getting pushed out of the joint and there is more surface area and better adhesion. It’s the proper way to plumb.

If your buying the flex pvc in 50’ rolls like I do, it’s hard to get the pvc to straighten out, as it usually likes to follow the direction of the roll it was kept since it was manufactured. That’s also an easy fix; use a heat gun and slowly heat the flex pvc in a uniform motion on the section your planning to use, and it will slowly straighten completely out. It’s way easier to maneuver and glue when it’s straight rather than fighting with the pipe which has a natural kink in it


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Unread 10/09/2017, 05:07 AM   #12
shaginwagon13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaginwagon13 View Post
In theory everyone loves check valves; the reality is that check valves all fail sooner or later. All of them get stuck open eventually and this is when you have real problems of you are relying on them to prevent water backflow and don’t have enough room in your sump to handle the water. I don’t use check valves because I like to know and I make sure at all times that my sump has enough room to handle the display tank water which siphons down into the fish room when I turn the return pumps off or power is lost. This way, I know to always make sure I have enough room to handle the backflow of water in my fish room.

Absolutely make sure you brace and reinforce the stand. From my personal sanity standpoint, the stand I usually always get fabricated out of steel at a CNC shop. For me, I want to make sure it’s perfectly level, and I want to know that it’s made out of 2” steel so there is never any concern with the stand failing. Since your going the wooden stand route, absolutely make sure it’s rock solid and level. You want absolutely no movement, that’s a disaster just waiting to happen when the tank is full.

You will also want to add 3/4” plywood and 3/4 to 1” of foam under the tank (it goes tank, foam, plywood and then the stand). The foam allows for natural settling of the tank is not 100% level and it also spreads any pressure spots over a wide area which reduces the stress and pressure on the glass. Inside the tank, it would also be a good idea to place rocks not on the glass itself but on egg-crate. The crate is covered by sand when you add that to your tank, and again, spreads the weight and any pressure spots over the tank bottom to help minimize cracks.

The picture you posted of the drain line cannot be used as a pressure line. Make sure you order flex pvc (if that’s the route you plan to go) that’s pressure rated. Also, just so you are aware, pvc glue for flex pvc is different than the clue for regular pvc pipe. For flex pvc, the glue hardens but has a little more give to account for the flex in the pvc. ALWAYS make sure you use pvc primer and ALWAYS make sure you rough up the surface of both the pipe and the fittings before you prime and glue. I always use a changer as well, it keeps the glue from getting pushed out of the joint and there is more surface area that way. It’s the proper way to plumb.



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Current Tank Info: 550 Gallon SPS Reef l 200 Gallon Sump l Skimmer: Vertex Alpha 250 l Return Pump: Reeflo Hammerhead l Tank Circulation: (2) Maxspect Gyre XF280 l Lighting: (3) 400w Halides & (3) AI Hydra 52 HD
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Unread 10/09/2017, 05:11 AM   #13
shaginwagon13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaginwagon13 View Post
In theory everyone loves check valves; the reality is that check valves all fail sooner or later. All of them get stuck open eventually and this is when you have real problems of you are relying on them to prevent water backflow and don’t have enough room in your sump to handle the water. I don’t use check valves because I like to know and I make sure at all times that my sump has enough room to handle the display tank water which siphons down into the fish room when I turn the return pumps off or power is lost. This way, I know to always make sure I have enough room to handle the backflow of water in my fish room.

Absolutely make sure you brace and reinforce the stand. From my personal sanity standpoint, the stand I usually always get fabricated out of steel at a CNC shop. For me, I want to make sure it’s perfectly level, and I want to know that it’s made out of 2” steel so there is never any concern with the stand failing. Since your going the wooden stand route, absolutely make sure it’s rock solid and level. You want absolutely no movement, that’s a disaster just waiting to happen when the tank is full.

You will also want to add 3/4” plywood and 3/4 to 1” of foam under the tank (it goes tank, foam, plywood and then the stand). The foam allows for natural settling of the tank is not 100% level and it also spreads any pressure spots over a wide area which reduces the stress and pressure on the glass. Inside the tank, it would also be a good idea to place rocks not on the glass itself but on egg-crate. The crate is covered by sand when you add that to your tank, and again, spreads the weight and any pressure spots over the tank bottom to help minimize cracks.

The picture you posted of the drain line cannot be used as a pressure line. Make sure you order flex pvc (if that’s the route you plan to go) that’s pressure rated. Also, just so you are aware, pvc glue for flex pvc is different than the clue for regular pvc pipe. For flex pvc, the glue hardens but has a little more give to account for the flex in the pvc. ALWAYS make sure you use pvc primer and ALWAYS make sure you rough up the surface of both the pipe and the fittings before you prime and glue. I always use a changer as well, it keeps the glue from getting pushed out of the joint and there is more surface area and better adhesion. It’s the proper way to plumb.

If your buying the flex pvc in 50’ rolls like I do, it’s hard to get the pvc to straighten out,
As it usually likes to follow the direction of the roll it was kept since it was manufactured. That’s also an easy fix; use a heat gun and slowly heat the flex pvc in a uniform motion on the section your planning to use, and it will slowly straighten completely out. It’s way easier to maneuver and glue when it’s straight rather than fighting with the pipe which has a natural kink in it.


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Current Tank Info: 550 Gallon SPS Reef l 200 Gallon Sump l Skimmer: Vertex Alpha 250 l Return Pump: Reeflo Hammerhead l Tank Circulation: (2) Maxspect Gyre XF280 l Lighting: (3) 400w Halides & (3) AI Hydra 52 HD
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Unread 10/09/2017, 05:13 AM   #14
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.... not sure why there was a double post...


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Current Tank Info: 550 Gallon SPS Reef l 200 Gallon Sump l Skimmer: Vertex Alpha 250 l Return Pump: Reeflo Hammerhead l Tank Circulation: (2) Maxspect Gyre XF280 l Lighting: (3) 400w Halides & (3) AI Hydra 52 HD
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Unread 10/09/2017, 05:50 AM   #15
ReefMaster48
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It sounds to me like the stand, garage floor, or other item might not be perfectly level. When you rock it, does the whole stand rock too, or just the tank? If the stand was flexing, then you'd likely here some creaking. I would make sure that the floor is perfectly level, then make sure the top of the stand is perfectly level, then make sure the top of the tank is perfectly level. If this is all good, then there should be no rocking. Also, if this is going on carpet, there can be some flex to that as well, so a tiny sway of the tank with a lot of pressure would not concern me.

Furthermore, I'm sure you have already taken this into account, but make sure that your tank (if not on a solid base like concrete, etc) is sitting over top as many floor joists. A tank thats 24" (just an example) wide will only sit on 1-3 floor joists if the tank is run parallel to them, if sitting perpendicular, then a 6 foot tank be using (putting pressure on) as many as 6 depending on your houses construction and the tank location.

A metal stand is not needed for any aquarium. Given the proper materials, you can build anything out of wood, and out compete metal. Especially on price for a 340 gal tank. That wood stand of yours would likely support twice the weight of your tank, easily. Not even the slightest worry should concern you with your stand.

I may not be an "expert" on big tanks, but I am on wood and construction.

Lastly, I see check valves as another safety system. Given the price, regular cleaning, and operation, it is very unlikely that one would fail unless gross disregard was given to it. Many come with unions for cleaning, and so that you can replace them easily. Even changing one every 1-1.5 years is not that expensive if it gives you comfort. To ensure that you tank doesn't overflow the sump, there is countless ways to do this without having to account for half your sump volume. A hole just above the water line, return placement, etc etc. All work with great success without sacrificing sump space.

There are hundreds of thousands of ways to run a reef tank. And yet there is no black and white line between whats right and wrong. Everyone has their own way, and everyone has their own success!


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Unread 10/09/2017, 07:04 AM   #16
shaginwagon13
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Originally Posted by ReefMaster48 View Post
Given the proper materials, you can build anything out of wood, and out compete metal. Especially on price for a 340 gal tank. That wood stand of yours would likely support twice the weight of your tank, easily. Not even the slightest worry should concern you with your stand.

I may not be an "expert" on big tanks, but I am on wood and construction.

Lastly, I see check valves as another safety system. Given the price, regular cleaning, and operation, it is very unlikely that one would fail unless gross disregard was given to it. Many come with unions for cleaning, and so that you can replace them easily. Even changing one every 1-1.5 years is not that expensive if it gives you comfort. To ensure that you tank doesn't overflow the sump, there is countless ways to do this without having to account for half your sump volume. A hole just above the water line, return placement, etc etc. All work with great success without sacrificing sump space.
These two points could not be further from the truth.

Firstly, how exactly are you evaluating the performance of a wood
Stand compared to that of a steel one... by price? Load capacity? Structural integrity? Longevity? Because steel stand would outperform a wood one in each category except price.

No, your wood stand absolutely cannot have any give or lateral movement. And your also not going to outperform a welded steel stand with a wood one. That’s not to say you can’t use wood, but it’s a pretty bold statement to say not a single concern should be given on a 340 gallon tank, when there is lateral movement before it’s even filled. Filled with salt water, the tank is going to weight over 2,000 pounds. OP would not only need to ensure complete structural integrity of the stand, he would most likely also be required to add LVL/steel beam supports (or both) in the basement under the tank to ensure adequate load transfer.

Secondly, check valves are a known Achilles Heel of any system if you use them. The same goes for auto shut off valves and float valves. There an absolute ton of people who have used and relied on them, and when they fail they flood their home and their system. There is no need for a check valve, make sure your sump is running at a level that can handle the Back siphon, and drill a couple holes into the return lines just under the water surface in the display tank to crack break the siphon of the power goes out. That’s all you need. Gravity will never fail you, and you can be 100% certain your tank will be perfectly fine.

Please don’t take offence to this, but if you don’t have experiance with large tanks, and your not an engineer, ease up with the definitive recommendations that could potentially cause someone a flood or a display tank falling through their floor when their stand fails. I build commercial structures and buildings for a living. I employ structural and mechanical engineers for our projects. Trust me when I tell you the advise you gave is incorrect.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1550045


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Current Tank Info: 550 Gallon SPS Reef l 200 Gallon Sump l Skimmer: Vertex Alpha 250 l Return Pump: Reeflo Hammerhead l Tank Circulation: (2) Maxspect Gyre XF280 l Lighting: (3) 400w Halides & (3) AI Hydra 52 HD

Last edited by shaginwagon13; 10/09/2017 at 07:31 AM.
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Unread 10/09/2017, 07:09 AM   #17
ca1ore
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As far a check values are concerned, no experienced reefer will use them ..... which speaks volumes. While I agree that a properly constructed wooden stand is fine (though there's a reason tank manufacturers will not warranty their tanks on a DIY stand), nothing beats the rigidity of a steel one. I use wooden stands because I can make them myself, but I over build the heck out of them.


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Simon

Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones!

Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs
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Unread 10/09/2017, 07:10 AM   #18
ozorowsky
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Good morning all,

This is an acrylic tank; do I still want to add foam under it? I do have 3/4 particle board under it now.

Do I still want the egg crate even though this is acrylic? Will I have to worry about it trapping nitrates down there?

In regards to return line, I'm gonna take the pump to Home depot see what I can find. I want large water movement to a 1" PVC pipe, so going to see what we can come up with.

Currently I built the stand on my covered patio. There is a minor pitch on my patio for water run off. When I move this in the house its perfectly level. I only have a foundation no basement, so nothing to worry about under the tank.

The tank is filled with water. The rocking only happens if I try to rock it back and forth kind of hard. Wondering if I could/should brace this a little better to avoid ANY rocking. Thats why I posted pictures of the stand to hopefully gain some insight where it could/should be strengthend a little further.


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Unread 10/09/2017, 07:12 AM   #19
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Quote:
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As far a check values are concerned, no experienced reefer will use them ..... which speaks volumes.
I have a very large sump; 78 long x 22 wide x 24 high. After I complete stand move this inside etc, I'll have to test the plumbing out. I'm just thinking ahead is all.

This tank has 2 durso pipes. You're saying if I drill a small hole about 2" under the water surface, the hole will break suction and stop the water from flowing down to sump?


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Unread 10/09/2017, 07:13 AM   #20
ca1ore
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Originally Posted by shaginwagon13 View Post
.... not sure why there was a double post...


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Simon

Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones!

Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs
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Unread 10/09/2017, 07:18 AM   #21
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Order of approaches to prevent back siphon, best to worst: keep mouth of return very close to tank surface (mine is just 1/4" submerged), drill a siphon hole, and then check valve.

Ask the tank manufacturer about foam. I don't know any acrylic tank maker that doesn't prescribe foam, but I suppose there are always exceptions.


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Simon

Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones!

Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs
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Unread 10/09/2017, 07:23 AM   #22
shaginwagon13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozorowsky View Post
Good morning all,

This is an acrylic tank; do I still want to add foam under it? I do have 3/4 particle board under it now.

Do I still want the egg crate even though this is acrylic? Will I have to worry about it trapping nitrates down there?

In regards to return line, I'm gonna take the pump to Home depot see what I can find. I want large water movement to a 1" PVC pipe, so going to see what we can come up with.

Currently I built the stand on my covered patio. There is a minor pitch on my patio for water run off. When I move this in the house its perfectly level. I only have a foundation no basement, so nothing to worry about under the tank.

The tank is filled with water. The rocking only happens if I try to rock it back and forth kind of hard. Wondering if I could/should brace this a little better to avoid ANY rocking. Thats why I posted pictures of the stand to hopefully gain some insight where it could/should be strengthend a little further.
Unless your tank came with specific instructions not to add foam under it, then yes I would. The reason for this is because if your tank is not 100% completely level or your stand, house or foundation shifts slightly over time, the foam will allow the tank to adjust slightly which prevents strain on the tank walls. If the stress is great enough, you run the risk of your display tank panels separating from each other.

To be honest I have never used an acrylic tank, it’s always been glass so possibly someone that has run an acrylic tank can chime in here in regards to if the egg crate is required. My innitioal assumption would be you should be fine without the egg crate, acrylic and glass have far different fracture points. Glass is extremity strong as a unit or complete panel, but if you add a single point of pressure it becomes extremely weak and will fracture. The bottom panel of an acrylic tank would scratch, but that’s not too much of a concern I don’t think. Again, this is my assumption; hopefully someone that has run acrylic can chime in and recommend if it’s reccomemded to add egg-crate or if it’s alright to go without it.

The people at Home Depot; very honestly, have no clue half the time what they are talking about especially if you ask them a question in regards to a project they are not familiar with. If you have any plumbing questions, if possible, ask a local plumber. I have also found it super helpful to go into the Large Tank threads and look through the fish, sump and return pump photos. It gives you a very good idea of what valves, fittings and reducers you would need to plumb your tank. Also, Home carries some, but not all the specialty PVC fittings, they are usually more expensive and the quality is not as good as a commercial plumbing supply store. Here is one that has very good prices and has commercial grade stuff:

www.savko.com


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Current Tank Info: 550 Gallon SPS Reef l 200 Gallon Sump l Skimmer: Vertex Alpha 250 l Return Pump: Reeflo Hammerhead l Tank Circulation: (2) Maxspect Gyre XF280 l Lighting: (3) 400w Halides & (3) AI Hydra 52 HD

Last edited by shaginwagon13; 10/09/2017 at 07:29 AM.
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Unread 10/09/2017, 07:24 AM   #23
shaginwagon13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ca1ore View Post
Triple LOL.
This new IPhone update is killing me, there are so many bugs lol


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- Shaginwagon -

Current Tank Info: 550 Gallon SPS Reef l 200 Gallon Sump l Skimmer: Vertex Alpha 250 l Return Pump: Reeflo Hammerhead l Tank Circulation: (2) Maxspect Gyre XF280 l Lighting: (3) 400w Halides & (3) AI Hydra 52 HD
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Unread 10/09/2017, 07:25 AM   #24
shaginwagon13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ca1ore View Post
Order of approaches to prevent back siphon, best to worst: keep mouth of return very close to tank surface (mine is just 1/4" submerged), drill a siphon hole, and then check valve.

Ask the tank manufacturer about foam. I don't know any acrylic tank maker that doesn't prescribe foam, but I suppose there are always exceptions.
I 100% agree with this.


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- Shaginwagon -

Current Tank Info: 550 Gallon SPS Reef l 200 Gallon Sump l Skimmer: Vertex Alpha 250 l Return Pump: Reeflo Hammerhead l Tank Circulation: (2) Maxspect Gyre XF280 l Lighting: (3) 400w Halides & (3) AI Hydra 52 HD
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Unread 10/09/2017, 07:37 AM   #25
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I think if you wrap it in plywood it will stiffen it up quite a bit


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