Oyster Reef Ecosystem Tank

[Michael Hoaster]

Great pics again! Thanks for sharing your progress. So the big tank is still going to happen? Yay!

[Chasmodes]

Thank you Patrick. I bet that was a very cool tank! How did your filter feeders do over time? Did you feed them or just let the tank do its own thing?

Thank you Michael. Yes, the big tank will happen. It will be up and running as soon as I can get the stand done, just need to put in the time. Now that the weather is colder, I won't be making collecting trips and will be able to put in the time to move this project along. Ultimately, everything in both tanks will migrate to the 100g tank.

[Chasmodes]

Last night, while cruising the 20g long tank with my magnifying glass, looking for new life forms, I found two very small colonies of very delicate hydroids, on two of the oyster shells. They look pretty cool but from the naked eye, they look like fuzz. But, I have old eyes, so that pretty much describes everything that I see. The pods on the front glass are going crazy, so it's time to clean off the algae again. I'll leave some of the sessile animals that I found last time. I still don't know what they are, perhaps either barnacles, oyster spat of juvenile mussels. They don't do anything, just sit there, so eventually, I'll scrape them off. I want to watch them for a while and see what they turn into.

The fish are doing well, as are the other critters, although something died that a goby was eating. It's almost impossible to do a fish count because while they are all moving around through the cover, they aren't ever all out at the same time. However, I don't think it was a fish. I think it was either a crab or a shrimp. I still have plenty of shrimp in the tank and the fish seem to leave them alone, but, we all know that one of the fish is a murderer from a previous crime...

In the 20g high, I'm at my wits end with three fish that I don't want. I should have never collected them. They're parasite ridden and I'm convinced that they were the reason that all of my benthic fish in this tank died. I'm pretty sure that velvet was the culprit, but, the large female mummichog now has an infected pectoral fin, with perhaps worms hanging off of it. The fish is oblivious and eating like a pig. Also, this morning, a long stringy white thing was coming out of the anus, so my guess is that it has internal parasites as well. The fish isn't as fat as it once was.

Here's the problem... I need the tank to be fallow to get rid of all of these parasites. And, I am not sure that these fish are worth the cost of purchasing treatment. On one hand, I feel obligated to treat them because it's my fault that they're in my tank. Perhaps I'll set up a QT storage bin and go buy some meds. But, on the other hand, I want them gone. A fellow aquarist suggested that I freeze them, but I can't bring myself to do it. One of my fishing buddies said that I should just take them fishing and use them as bait (they're the same species commonly sold in bait stores). I have no idea what I'll do right now...but it pains me to look into that tank.

[Michael Hoaster]

Freezing fish is the most humane way to euthanize. Put them in a small vessel with a little water into your freezer, and they just go to sleep painlessly. Sometimes it has to be done. It seems like euthanizing would be less painful for them, rather than letting the disease/parasites run their course. I froze several of my grammas before they were dead.

Whatever you decide.

[Chasmodes]

Thank you Michael, much appreciated. I have to think about the end game. From now on, this experience will make me much more careful and picky about my collections, and my QT techniques.

[Chasmodes]

Just for ****'s and giggles, I googled... So I guess its for ****'s and googles, LOL. Anyway, I searched for "mummichog parasites" and found a paper titled, "Parasites of Mummichogs, Fundulus heteroclitus, from the York River, Virginia, U.S.A., with a Checklist of Parasites of Atlantic Coast Fundulus Spp". I'm not going to go into the entire paper, but let me just say that after reading it for 15 minutes, it made me sick to wonder how many of these evil creatures are in my tank. The rate of infection is very high on a lot of these parasites, in particular, for this species of fish. Had I known that earlier, I would not collect them or any other wild killifish, unless I was going to have a dedicated tank just for them. This is nothing against keeping them or a species, because I actually like their personality. However, the risk is too high. Ughhhhh....

[Michael Hoaster]

Sh!ts and googles! Your experience reading about mummichogs and their parasites reminds me of that info you turned me onto awhile back about silversides. They're just too risky. With all the great, super-sturdy fish available, it's hard to justify disease-prone residents in our tanks. In small, closed systems, it's just asking for it.

After 30+ years, I'm all about the 'beginner' fish!

[Chasmodes]

Yep, I totally agree, only I learned the hard way. I wish that I had found that paper before I started collecting fish. I also wish that I had been more careful. I'd have two great blenny tanks up and running at the same time instead of one. But, what is done is done, and I have to move on and think about the end game of getting my larger project up and running. These killifish are a thorn in the side of that larger project.

Just as an FYI to anyone that is following, the paper that I mentioned also includes other species of killifish. There is an amazing point to be made though, that if you keep a killifish aquarium of the various species, you can expect to deal with diseases. The plus side of that is that these fish are very hardy and have the ability to fight off the effects of parasitic infections and keep on surviving. I'm actually seeing this in my closed system. The big female is having problems, but seems to be fighting them off, behaving as if nothing is wrong. When my blennies were sick with similar symptoms, they went downhill and died. So, if anyone builds an oyster reef tank like this, I'd recommend not adding killifish to your system (unless you do a complete QT treatment of parasites). If you want to keep killifish, then keep a tank just for them. My 2 cents. How far that goes probably ain't that far!

[McPuff]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

Freezing fish is the most humane way to euthanize. Put them in a small vessel with a little water into your freezer, and they just go to sleep painlessly. Sometimes it has to be done. It seems like euthanizing would be less painful for them, rather than letting the disease/parasites run their course. I froze several of my grammas before they were dead.

Whatever you decide.

Agreed. Unfortunately, I had to do this recently for a new arrival. But it is certainly better than having them flounder for an extra day or two only to meet the same fate.

[Chasmodes]

Thanks McPuff.

[Chasmodes]

Time for a quick update. In the 20g long, the Ulva that I added a few months ago isn't making it, but it seems that the Gracilaria is OK, not growing, but stopped dying off and is holding its own. All of the fish and inverts look OK. The crabs rarely come out but now and then, if I use a flashlight, can see one hiding in the rocks. The filter feeders are doing OK, so it seems. The tunicates look the same, the mussels open and close normally, and the barnacle is out and feeding often. Dosing the phytoplankton seems to be the ticket. The worm and pod populations are doing well. I discovered another new life form, a filter feeding organism that resembles and anemone perhaps, or the head of the worm, coming out of the sand, kind of reddish in color and about 2-3mm wide. I suspect it is a small anemone, but, it seems to open and close like pulsing zenia or perhaps a jellyfish. My first thought was that it is a larval budding polyp of a sea nettle. But, why would it show up after so long? Weird. If it turns out to be sea nettles, then I'll get them out of the tank and perhaps donate them to the public aquarium. We will see. I need to take a video of it to see what you all think. Anyway, it's pretty cool!

The 20g high hasn't changed much except that I haven't gotten rid of the mummichogs yet. I need to do that so I can run that tank fallow for a decent amount of time and get rid of the parasites in there. However, the sick mummichog seems to have fought off and recovered from all of the parasites. It is an amazing and resilient species for sure. But, they have no place in the future of my system, so they'll be gone some day. I decided not to euthanize them though, so I'll quarantine them and treat them, and then figure out what to do with them later. If I treat them, then I might be able to donate them to the local public aquarium. Maybe I'll set up a tank just for them.

[Chasmodes]

I really like the look of the Ulva in this tank, but I think that until I set up the larger tank with better lighting, I'll not add it to this tank any longer. It just dies off. It looks great while it's alive, but ugly when it decomposes, although, I imagine all of the detritivores and herbivorous microfauna enjoy it. I can't tell if the Gracilaria is dying off or not. If it is, it takes a lot longer. I moved the tunicates up onto the reef after reading that contact with sediment or partial burial might lead to an earlier death. They seem to be doing OK, but time will tell. Here's a full tank shot:


A zoomed in section of the right cultch, where I've moded all of the tunicates:


After observing and taking pics and vids of my newly found creature, I've determined that it is indeed a larval form of a jellyfish (a budding polyp or scyphistoma), although I'm not certain of the species. It's about 2-3 mm wide. I'm not sure what to do about this, because, although it is cool, adult versions would kill my fish. I wonder if my powerhead and HOB filter will kill these juvenile jellies or not. Maybe I should just remove them now. It appears this morning that perhaps one of the ephyra separated from the budding polyp, because this morning it was a lot smaller. Here's a video from last night:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPEVLIiZXEI&t=2s

Here's a video update of the tank:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6vx3hzkml0&t=4s

[Michael Hoaster]

I love ulva too. It's so colorful!

That jelly thingy is awesome! The vids are great. Your tank is maturing nicely. I like the new tunicate location. They don't clog with algae up there?

[Chasmodes]

Thanks Michael. The tunicates on the oyster shell (lower section) has been there for over a month and no algae at all. The other ones were moved last week. so far, so good. If they start getting covered with algae, then my plan is to move some of the macros over top of them to block the light, or find another area of the reef that is out of the light more.

[Chasmodes]

Updates:

20g long:
The Ulva died off for the most part. I won't collect any more Ulva until I set up the larger tank with better lighting. It looks good for a while though, but when it dies off, it isn't pleasing. I can't tell how the Gracilaria is doing. It seems to be holding its own, but not growing at a fast rate. The mud crabs never come out any more, but they are there as you can see them if you prob the dark hiding spots with a flashlight. They're getting bigger. The budding polyp jellyfish is done producing baby medusae, so I can't tell if it is dying or will continue to produce them. The tunicates are hanging in there, but I think that I'm losing one of them. I'm feeding them bottled phytoplankton three times each week. The baby mussels are still going strong. All of the fish are accounted for. It took a while to do an inventory, but eventually, I find times where they're curious and come to the front of the tank and peer out from their hiding spots. The skilletfish are the exception, as the best time to count them is at feeding time. Everything else is doing well, parameters, etc.

20g high:
I still have the three mummichogs. They've all recovered from their disease symptoms for the most part on their own, but they still show signs of the parasites. They are very resilient fish. I purchased some copper and a copper test kit, mainly because I might try it in the future after I collect fish, but also to treat these fish. My goal is to get them out of this tank and run the tank fallow. I will treat them in a plastic storage bin and after they are disease free, donate them to the public aquarium. The ghost anemone is getting bigger. I'm waiting for it to bud off and reproduce, but so far it has not done that. All of the tunicates except one have died despite me feeding phytoplankton three times a week. The cluster of mussels enjoys the phyto feast though and are doing OK. Ulva does better in this tank, but it isn't growing much or the die off is very slow. I don't have to prune it. There are mud crabs in this tank also, but I rarely see them.

Photo updates from the 20g long:














Lots of folks in the reefing world like the blue tank look, so I'm playing too

[Michael Hoaster]

More great pics!

I've got ulva in my two QTs and it doesn't do well either. I'm pretty sure it's just the lack of light.

[Chasmodes]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

More great pics!

I've got ulva in my two QTs and it doesn't do well either. I'm pretty sure it's just the lack of light.

I agree. I am pretty sure it is the light. I was thinking about setting up my EcoTech marine Radion over this little 20g long tank. It's overkill, but, I can dial it back maybe to meet the needs of this tank, and also experiment with all of the bells and whistles. Maybe I can get the Ulva to come back!

[Michael Hoaster]

Yeah, play with that thing! You owe it to your future tank…

[Chasmodes]

Yes, I will do that...I can't believe that I haven't yet. I guess I figured it would be too much for that little 20g tank, LOL.

I don't have much to update from the weekend except I found another critter hiding behind the tunicates. It seems to be a pretty good size bristle worm, but I can't tell. It pops its head out once in a while to check things out or grab a meal (frozen brine shrimp) and with lightning quick speed, shoots back into his hidey hole. It's cool to watch. I see various bristle worms in my sand bed, creating tunnels and funnels to the surface where food collects, but I haven't actually seen them poke their heads out like that or move up to feed on the stuff in the funnels. My guess is that they do that at night, maybe even come out and cruise the tank. They are home bodies though, so my guess is that they stick to their tunnels or only come out part way or short distances.

Before having this tank, I never thought that all of the "other" creatures would interest me almost as much as the fish.

I didn't work on the rest of my build(s) or anything other than feed my fish this weekend. I spent the day yesterday on the ice fishing, and the previous day getting my gear ready. Ice fishing is one of my passions. That puts my projects on hold somewhat, until we lose the ice. I caught 31 bluegills and a couple crappie, saw two trout on my underwater camera and many other various panfish that didn't want to bite. It was a good day on the ice though, good to get out. I don't have pics because my camera (iPhone) died on me before noon.

[Chasmodes]

After feeding my fish, I like to keep watching them until I get sleepy. During part of that time, I pick up the magnifying glass and search the tank for anything that I can find that I haven't seen before. While examining the base of one of the oyster shells, I spot the sand move...a bulge up, then occasional sand and debris movement. I thought it was maybe another bristle worm. But, there was a little bit of dark space behind the bulge of sand, so I shined my flashlight in there and saw two little appendages of something moving. Hmmm, after a closer look, it finally moved and it was a mud crab. About 4" away is another cave under some shells where a mud crab always hangs out. He was still there. So, a second mud crab appeared. I rarely see them. They've grown quite a bit. They were about 1/2" across but now they're about an inch across. There were 4 or 5 crabs introduced into the tank, I think...I can't remember. I can account for 2 of them. My bet is that all of the ones that I put in there are still alive.

I watched the bristle worm that I found the other day eat a brine shrimp. It didn't take it long to find it, and man, was it quick in devouring it. It kind of reminded me of that Jack Black version of King Kong when they fell down into the cavern and gave me the creeps, willies and eebie jeebies.

[Subsea]

Originally Posted by Chasmodes

After feeding my fish, I like to keep watching them until I get sleepy. During part of that time, I pick up the magnifying glass and search the tank for anything that I can find that I haven't seen before. While examining the base of one of the oyster shells, I spot the sand move...a bulge up, then occasional sand and debris movement. I thought it was maybe another bristle worm. But, there was a little bit of dark space behind the bulge of sand, so I shined my flashlight in there and saw two little appendages of something moving. Hmmm, after a closer look, it finally moved and it was a mud crab. About 4" away is another cave under some shells where a mud crab always hangs out. He was still there. So, a second mud crab appeared. I rarely see them. They've grown quite a bit. They were about 1/2" across but now they're about an inch across. There were 4 or 5 crabs introduced into the tank, I think...I can't remember. I can account for 2 of them. My bet is that all of the ones that I put in there are still alive.

I watched the bristle worm that I found the other day eat a brine shrimp. It didn't take it long to find it, and man, was it quick in devouring it. It kind of reminded me of that Jack Black version of King Kong when they fell down into the cavern and gave me the creeps, willies and eebie jeebies.

I saw the same giant bristle worm eat a man.

I went back and reviewed your Ghost Shrimp munching out vidio. As things are developing on my end, I intend to co culture an intensive grass shrimp culture system with a seaweed tumble culture system. After much technical advice from mariculture technicians, I will feed nutrient rich water thru a 40W UV sterilizer to seaweed culture tank. While Gracilaria Tikvahiae can survive 0 - 100 degree temperatures, the shrimp can not survive cold. To that end, I need a geothermal heat source. My 30” deep Rubbermade tanks are not deep enough. I have a 1500G tank already. I will bite the bullet and get tank buried in the ground before next electric bill. December electric bill was $458.

[Michael Hoaster]

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of bristle worms. But they are excellent detrivores and good for the system. I had them in my old reef tank and their population just exploded. It was too much!

[Chasmodes]

Originally Posted by Subsea

I saw the same giant bristle worm eat a man.

Originally Posted by Subsea

I went back and reviewed your Ghost Shrimp munching out vidio. As things are developing on my end, I intend to co culture an intensive grass shrimp culture system with a seaweed tumble culture system. After much technical advice from mariculture technicians, I will feed nutrient rich water thru a 40W UV sterilizer to seaweed culture tank. While Gracilaria Tikvahiae can survive 0 - 100 degree temperatures, the shrimp can not survive cold. To that end, I need a geothermal heat source. My 30” deep Rubbermade tanks are not deep enough. I have a 1500G tank already. I will bite the bullet and get tank buried in the ground before next electric bill. December electric bill was $458.

Wow, Patrick, that is a good chunk of change! The geothermal option sounds like a solid plan.

Are you grass shrimp a different less temperature tolerant species than what is in my tank? Maybe, in the wild, they go to deeper water like some of the fish do? Or do they stay shallow? Right now, the Bay is iced over around the shorelines except for the wind blown areas, and those areas look like ice slushies. I'm curious about that and may have to make a trip and find out and see if I can collect them or not in the shallows once the ice goes out. Not only the ice going out on the Bay but also after the ice goes out on our lakes, because until then, I'll be sitting on top of it fishing!

What is the minimum temperature that you have been able to keep them alive? Do the shrimp die if the tank doesn't freeze over?

[Chasmodes]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of bristle worms. But they are excellent detrivores and good for the system. I had them in my old reef tank and their population just exploded. It was too much!

I think that if the population explodes in my tank, my blennies will feast on them. Right now, the worms are pretty good at hiding from them and escaping. I hope that happens because then I'll have a renewable food supply for my fish!

[Michael Hoaster]

I'm not sure we're talking about the same worm. The ones I had ranged from an inch to a foot, with hundreds of tiny bristles that stung me when I worked in the tank. Fish avoided them. The tail-spot wrasse, Halichoeres melanurus, was the only fish I found that would eat them. Of course these were sissy, reef fish. Your blennies look like they would eat rusty nuts and bolts for a snack!