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Unread 08/14/2017, 02:37 PM   #26
Cheapreef
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Yes there really is no way to Carbon dose and not skim, it's not going to work out well.


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Unread 08/14/2017, 03:00 PM   #27
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^
always believed that you gotta have skimmer for carbon dosing, to remove the nutrients, and also for aeration for any bacterial blooms that depletes the O2 in the tank


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Unread 08/14/2017, 03:03 PM   #28
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oops sorry, he said "dosing and carbon"

i'm guessing he's meaning carbon media rather than carbon dosing.

in that case, good luck!

i believe there's a 0 water change reefing style called Triton, probably worth a little research just for the knowledge if nothing else.


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Unread 08/14/2017, 03:05 PM   #29
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I thought the same thing at first, but he says carbon dosing in post #24.


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Unread 08/14/2017, 05:01 PM   #30
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Quote:
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How will you be exporting nutrients with carbon dosing with no skimmer? The stuff that you are growing with the carbon will just stay in the tank and be part of the N cycle, again.

You don't believe the chemistry that your bleach will turn into organic chloramines and that organic chloramines don't kill the stuff that you want to kill?

Your test is likely missing the organics that will be there in the water, thus no conversion to organic chloramines.


Export of bacterial biofloc from carbon dosing will be carried out by mechanical filtration, socks and floss in this case. This is much more effective than skimming.


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Unread 08/14/2017, 05:02 PM   #31
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In other news, some goodies have arrived!


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Unread 08/14/2017, 08:25 PM   #32
Cheapreef
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Export of bacterial biofloc from carbon dosing will be carried out by mechanical filtration, socks and floss in this case. This is much more effective than skimming.


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I don't think you have researched it that well. Here is nice short thread that sums it up in the second post. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1929620


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Unread 08/14/2017, 09:02 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheapreef View Post
I don't think you have researched it that well. Here is nice short thread that sums it up in the second post. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1929620
So, Why won't mechanical filtration work?
Not fine enough?


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Current Tank Info: 53x32.5x26 190g dt 60g of sumps 3 tank-100 gal frag system 6xAI prime 8xt5. 4x maxspect gyre. Skimz Dual internal sicce pump skimmer Deltec PF601s ca rx+Kalk stirrer
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Unread 08/15/2017, 10:55 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jda View Post
How will you be exporting nutrients with carbon dosing with no skimmer? The stuff that you are growing with the carbon will just stay in the tank and be part of the N cycle, again.

You don't believe the chemistry that your bleach will turn into organic chloramines and that organic chloramines don't kill the stuff that you want to kill?

Your test is likely missing the organics that will be there in the water, thus no conversion to organic chloramines.

The bacteria generated from carbon dosing assimilate the N and P from the water column and not only can be removed by mechanical filtration, but will also serve as food for coral and other bacteria eating critters which in turn can provide a food source to corals and maybe even fish if the pod population increases. This pathway essentially recycles the inorganic P and N in the water column back into food for fish and corals. As such, less food needs to be added to the tank so there's a mechanism for lowering P and N in the water column.

Carbon dosing in reef aquaria should have been called bioflocculation as it is in the aquaculture industry. There they can control nutrients by putting in less food and have the shrimp or tilapia, as the case may be, take up the slack by eating the detritus formed from adding a carbon source which in aquaculture is usually molasses.

Another source of nutrient depletion from carbon dosing, which doesn't involve a skimmer or even a mechanical filter, is the use of the organic carbon as an energy source for denitrification in the anoxic zones in the tank. Nitrates are lowered without removal of detritus by the dissimilation of nitrate into nitrogen gas which degasses from the aquarium. This is one of the reasons nitrate usually drops proportionately faster than phosphate in a reef tank. Denitrification only lowers nitrate, not phosphate.



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Unread 08/15/2017, 11:42 AM   #35
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I'm really curious how you make out on this, but I am very intereseted in your way of thining about this. You say

2. I also plan to be away from the tank for some time, so water changes won't be possible. I'm going no skimmer, no water changes, no fuge, no gfo, only dosing and carbon.

You'll be using filter floss and mech means instead of skimmer. If your away form the tank your filters are going to become plugged very fast with carbon dosing, trust me when I was running filter socks on my tank 3 days they would not flow any water.
So your filter becomes a nitrate factory if left too long. A skimmmer actually removes DOC instead of letting them sit in your tank and become a issue.


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Unread 08/15/2017, 11:45 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Shark.Bait View Post
In other news, some goodies have arrived!


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Keep it commin'


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Current Tank Info: 53x32.5x26 190g dt 60g of sumps 3 tank-100 gal frag system 6xAI prime 8xt5. 4x maxspect gyre. Skimz Dual internal sicce pump skimmer Deltec PF601s ca rx+Kalk stirrer
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Unread 08/15/2017, 01:57 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheapreef View Post
I'm really curious how you make out on this, but I am very intereseted in your way of thining about this. You say



2. I also plan to be away from the tank for some time, so water changes won't be possible. I'm going no skimmer, no water changes, no fuge, no gfo, only dosing and carbon.



You'll be using filter floss and mech means instead of skimmer. If your away form the tank your filters are going to become plugged very fast with carbon dosing, trust me when I was running filter socks on my tank 3 days they would not flow any water.

So your filter becomes a nitrate factory if left too long. A skimmmer actually removes DOC instead of letting them sit in your tank and become a issue.


I completely agree with you, the mechanical filtration maintenance really needs to be kept up with this tank. The filter socks on this tank aren't the best so my plan is to replace filter floss every few days.

While I'm away I plan to have a friend change out the floss and fill the ato every few days.


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Unread 08/16/2017, 05:45 PM   #38
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Subscribed. Thanks for documenting this interesting approach.


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Unread 08/30/2017, 08:57 PM   #39
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Sorry for the slow updates. School keeps me busy! Here's some pics of the tank ready to go. Picked up some coral too!


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Unread 08/31/2017, 06:12 PM   #40
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Looking good!
Let's see those corals when you have some time.


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Current Tank Info: 53x32.5x26 190g dt 60g of sumps 3 tank-100 gal frag system 6xAI prime 8xt5. 4x maxspect gyre. Skimz Dual internal sicce pump skimmer Deltec PF601s ca rx+Kalk stirrer
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Unread 11/09/2017, 03:27 PM   #41
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100% Aquaculture, Bare Bones SPS Lagoon

Hello everyone and sorry for the long absence, dental school is a lot of work! Tank has been on cruise control with no water change from the inception. I have also been keeping true to the bleach dosing schedule. The only inhabitant as of now is a possum wrasse.

Coral has been doing well and no loses so far. Colors are subdued due to an accidental bleaching caused by the light being stuck on, and no measurable NO3 or PO4. My plans for the livestock are to add 2 clownfish of some sort, that’s probably it.

Here are some pics, I know it’s not a good looking tank yet!! I went with some biodiversity in coral choices so I could see if this method would effect anything short term. I plan to trade out most of these with SPS frags. I was playing around with a fish eye as well so I apologize for the weird pictures.




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Last edited by Shark.Bait; 11/10/2017 at 10:42 AM.
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Unread 11/09/2017, 03:29 PM   #42
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100% Aquaculture, Bare Bones SPS Lagoon




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Unread 11/09/2017, 03:35 PM   #43
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100% Aquaculture, Bare Bones SPS Lagoon

I’ve also upgraded the stock return pump (211 gph) to the jebao dcs 2000 (520 gph), and added two random flow generator (RFG) nozzles from VCA. The jebao is LOUD but I’m hoping it will settle in. The flow in the tank is so much better and less linear now. Much less dead spots in the tank and the RFG create a wave action. Hopefully, this will help the SPS necrosis you can see in spots.




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Unread 11/09/2017, 05:44 PM   #44
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SO far so good.. yes, corals do look a bit pale or browned out..
Still curious to watch the tank progress.


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Current Tank Info: 53x32.5x26 190g dt 60g of sumps 3 tank-100 gal frag system 6xAI prime 8xt5. 4x maxspect gyre. Skimz Dual internal sicce pump skimmer Deltec PF601s ca rx+Kalk stirrer
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Unread 11/09/2017, 07:04 PM   #45
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SO far so good.. yes, corals do look a bit pale or browned out..
Still curious to watch the tank progress.
Agreed, they're on their way back at least! I'm curious as well. Part of the problem is it being such a new tank that everything is still settling in and being tweaked.


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Unread 11/10/2017, 11:59 AM   #46
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Absolutely.. agreed. Your tank has a lot of maturing to do..


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Current Tank Info: 53x32.5x26 190g dt 60g of sumps 3 tank-100 gal frag system 6xAI prime 8xt5. 4x maxspect gyre. Skimz Dual internal sicce pump skimmer Deltec PF601s ca rx+Kalk stirrer
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Unread 11/16/2017, 03:54 PM   #47
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Did a bit of re-scaping. I’ll be away from the tank for 6 weeks. Interested to see what it looks like when I get back!




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Unread 01/08/2018, 02:59 PM   #48
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Finally back to my tank! Everything is looking good and the coral have grown. I haven’t lost anything over the 6 week period.

I brought a lot of coral back.... I may have overpacked. Among the stock list are:
4 tridacna
A bunch of sps, acans and zoas
Aquaculture pair of clowns, watchman goby and pistol shrimp, 2 x blue line gobies, purple psudeochromis, Pom Pom crab.

Now to mount everything and let it grow!




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Unread 01/21/2018, 07:35 PM   #49
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Finally back to my tank! Everything is looking good and the coral have grown. I haven’t lost anything over the 6 week period.

I brought a lot of coral back.... I may have overpacked. Among the stock list are:
4 tridacna
A bunch of sps, acans and zoas
Aquaculture pair of clowns, watchman goby and pistol shrimp, 2 x blue line gobies, purple psudeochromis, Pom Pom crab.

Now to mount everything and let it grow!




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Nice build

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Unread 01/24/2018, 08:27 PM   #50
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Everything about adding bleach to a running living reef tank to me just screams NOOOooooooooo. A skimmer would really help the tank out especailly with little or no water changes. You need to remove that waste from the water and a skimmer is the best way to do that. I would highly recommend stopping the use of bleach asap, its basically chlorine and kills good things as well as bad. I just cant see it not stressing the corals every time its dosed. To each his own though. Good luck and happy reefing.
PS. Have you thought about doing a Triton water test?


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