Aquasurf your Vortech WWD, the DIY

[todd rose]

clankity clank clank........

[Sparkss]

?!? What does that mean Todd ?

[dogstar74]

It could mean this:

[Sparkss]

yea, I sort of thought about that after I posted Thanks

Looks like Giovani may be tied up with work these past couple of days. I haven't seen him reply in his threads. I may give him a holler later on this evening if he doesn't make it on before then

[todd rose]

You guys are funny. That is what I was implying

[Giovanni]

Mine have been running flawlessly for 2 1/2 weeks now.

[remember]

Giovanni - can this be done so that I can void my warranty? I can set the max. control voltage to 3V (or anything 0-10V) on the Profilux.

You say "The new Vortech WWD uses a 50Kohm POT to vary a 3.3 control voltage to the processor." Does the WD use the same POT?

Any help is appreciated. I plan to wire the Profilux directly to the WD without extra parts.

[Giovanni]

I am currently looking at documenting a DIY for this for a user over seas. I am needing someone to send me a profilux so I can get it worked out.

At the very least, you will need a 3.3 volt zener diode to make sure you do not smoke your processor if you accidentally screw up your profilux program and run it higher.

[Sparkss]

I was thinking of a 5v zener for the old driver mod, in place of the variable pot. Only catch would be that the flow setting on the AC would need to be multiplied by 2 (mentally). IE: the AC/AS set at 25% would equate to 50% setting at the Vortec. With this model anything over 50% on the AC would just be 100% on the Vortec. The granularity of the control would be dimished by 1/2, but even at an incremental value of 2 the control would still be pretty good.

I am just trying to think outside of the box . Would that method work ? Would it be easier that using the pot and setting/locking it in ? Would it be more expensive/cheaper ? One of the comments from ET was that there was too much voltage being dropped on the ground rail, if a separate power supply were used for the AS then the zener would tie back in with AS ground which expects the full 10v coming back anyways. That would allow a "safer" use of the battery backup units with a modded driver too, right ? (using a separate powersupply for the AS).

Or am I totally missing something here ?

Of course for a WWD mod needing a 3.3 v zener that would break the control granularity down by a factor of 3, which makes the settings math a bit more to deal with and the amount of control even less.

Just thinking out loud, more or less. Of course the most robust solution is to use the pot as Giovanni originally outlined. I was just looking for some potentially easier options .

[mcurl98]

Originally posted by EcoTech Marine
[4) We suggest against powering the Aquasurf off the 12V rail when on battery power. This could cause stress on some components because the battery backup only provides 12V and our 12V rail goes down to about 10V in this instance, which is okay for our design, but this would likely cause the Aquasurf to pull more current and further stress our supply rail

[/b] [/B]

Do you think this is a big concern if using the battery backup?

[Giovanni]

Tom,

The way I did it you have the most resolution and thus control over the pumps (0-100%) 100 steps. If you just use a zener, then if would be more like 0-33% so only 33 steps. My method really is not that hard once you get into it. One just needs to take their time.

Matt,

I don't think it is the big of a concern. Seems to make no difference as far as the AS is concerned.


PS My pumps are still working fine.

[Sparkss]

Originally posted by Giovanni
The way I did it you have the most resolution and thus control over the pumps (0-100%) 100 steps.

I agree with you 100%, in fact I more or less said as much in a couple of my statements .

Originally posted by Giovanni
If you just use a zener, then if would be more like 0-33% so only 33 steps.

right, 33 steps for a modded WWD and 50 steps for a modded MP40.

Originally posted by Giovanni
My method really is not that hard once you get into it. One just needs to take their time.

I was just looking at other options for easy installations (IE: if someone didn't own a multi-meter, or had a way to easily setup everything to do the pot calibration).

Originally posted by Giovanni
Matt,

I don't think it is the big of a concern. Seems to make no difference as far as the AS is concerned.

Hehehe, I don't think ETM was concered with the AS so much as with the MP40 (or WWD) . Their comment was that it could put additional load and stress on the drivers power supply components. One reason that I have our BB disconnected from the modded units until I can get a separate power supply for the AS and remove the possibility of a problem


BTW, the 2 that we have modded are working great. I just need to clean all of our wet ends to get a real sense for how the flow is in our tank

[mcurl98]

So, using an adapter to power the AS will bypass the power from the WWD and elimintae the possibility of a problem?

[Giovanni]

Yes and no. It will create more problems. You would need a tightly regulated supply. Because as you vary the voltage to the AS the control voltage varies. Also say you loose power and go on BB, now the AS no longer works you have no control till the power comes back on. There are more but that is the two most important.

[Sparkss]

I don't know if I agree with the need for a tightly regulated PS. Alot would depend on the AS internals, wouldn't it ? So long as the AS never puts out more than the 10.xx volt control voltage to the driver(s) then the input voltage into the AS is not as important. (Are you more concerned with a low voltage situation or an over-voltage one ?)

As for the AS losing power during an outage, I think I would be less concerned about making a wave and more concerned about stretching the BB unit's available power as long as possible (in case the outage is a long one). I am sure that the AS uses very little power, but is the benefit of having a wave (or random flow) during an outage worth losing any time at all on the pumps themselves ? Also, isn't there a lower limit that the VTs should not run at ? (the Tunze is 30%, I thought I recalled the VT was 10% or something in between that and the Tunze lower limit). If there is and it is, say 20%, and the AS calls for a 30% power, with the BB unit it would essentially result in the pumps running at 15%, below the example lower limit. Where as if the AS just drops power, then the pumps would run at 50% on the BB.

You know alot more about electronic components than me and I am not trying to challenge any design choices you made, I am just trying to "free-think" and more or less thinking out loud here in this forum. I am hoping to contribute to this effort (and not trying to impede it in any way). I just wanted to be sure that you did not misunderstand my intentions with these posts .

I have not thought all of it through 100%, so I may be overlooking something.

Any thoughts ?

[Giovanni]

Tom,

The AS Vs determines Vc to the Vortech. So if the there is a rise in Vs then there will be a corresponding rise in Vc. If you are at 100% when Vs rises, and Vc exceeds 3.6v then pop goes the processor.

Do you think I would have done this DIY without knowing as you put it "the AS internals."

If you loose power and want to stretch you BB out, wouldn't it be nice to be able to run one pump at a time? Or pulse one or two pumps for say 30 seconds at half power to stir things up a bit then back off or to low thus saving BB? Well it is nice. I can do that. Run the AS off an external power source and you cannot.

This DIY works as is. Why go monkeying with it? My Granddad always said "Don't fix it if it isn't broke." My pumps have been running flawlessly for almost 4 weeks. I don't think it is broke. LOL


Please understand, at the moment my time is very limited. I will be glade to answer questions about the DIY as is. My response may be slow at that. However I regret do not have time to research, test or debate possible changes until my work load decreases.

[Sparkss]

Originally posted by Giovanni
This DIY works as is. Why go monkeying with it? My Granddad always said "Don't fix it if it isn't broke." My pumps have been running flawlessly for almost 4 weeks. I don't think it is broke. LOL

There you go misinterpretting my intent . I never stated, nor meant to imply, that anything was "broken". Even porsche and ferrari continue to evolve and improve on their cars and designs. I don't doubt that the pumps will run for a good long time under normal circumstances. I was just trying to explore alternatives and explore all possible scenarios (IE: power outages, etc). I was not trying to offend you at all . I think that your DIY is da bomb.

[Giovanni]

I was not offended. If I were, you would have gotten some smart remark like, go make your own DIY if you do not like mine.

The more time I spend typing here, the less time I have to work my friends two MP40s I have in front of me.

[mcurl98]

I'm having a bit of a tough time adjusting the POT. I can get the reds to center pin to 81.9 and the blk/grn to center pin to 37.2 for a ratio of 2.2. Seems as I just can't hit 2.15. My POTS come out of the package at a ratio of about 1--about 57.6 and 59.8. Is there an acceptable range for the ratio or does it have to be dead on? Thanks.

[mcurl98]

actually, the reds to center are 37.2 and the grn/blk to center is 81.9--if that makes a difference...

[Giovanni]

Yes it makes a difference. Your last post is opposite! Watch the video again. The lower resistance should be between center pin and red pin. 2.20 should be fine your peak control voltage will be just a bit lower which is fine. Just make sure you have the lower resistance # between the red and center.

[mcurl98]

right, my reds to center is 37.2. I just typed it wrong the first time. Lower resistance=lower number, right? If I can't get 2.15, is it better to be 2.2 or 2.1-slightly larger or smaller number?

[mcurl98]

Now I have it to 2.17 on one POT and 2.14 on another. Time to glue them down or keep trying?

[Giovanni]

As long as the lower number is from center to red. You can glue them down or just take your solder iron and melt the to pieces of plastic together on the side.

[chiefzod]

Has any one modded a vortech yet and linked it with a Profilux computer?