ID This Worm-Like Casing

[s10corey]

Hello all!
I’m currently running CopperSafe in a 29g HT. Copper has been at 2.0 since 04/16/18. Inside is a FoxFace (being treated for Ich and Eye Flukes and possible exposure to Marine Velvet) and a Tomini Tang (being treated for Ich). I’m having trouble getting the Foxface to eat and hasn’t eaten for about a week and a half. The Tomini Tang hasn’t eaten for about two days. Today I decided to do a 7g water change hoping to bring the Copper down a half a point. While siphoning and vacuuming the bottom up a little I noticed a worm like casing floating under where the two fish were sitting. I didn’t get to see which one it came out of but by the size of it I’m thinking it’s the Foxface, as the Tomini is much smaller. I don’t know if it’s a worm, just a worm casing and the worm is still inside or if it’s part of an internal organ. I have attached pictures the best that I can take. Any guidance is greatly appreciate!

[lagatbezan]

sorry I can't help with what the pictures are. Were the fish eating prior to the copper treatment?
how fast did you raise the copper and what test kit are you using to measure its concentration?
Also copper will not treat for flukes.

[clevername]

you need to lower the copper levels to get them to eat then start treatment all over

[s10corey]

Originally Posted by lagatbezan

sorry I can't help with what the pictures are. Were the fish eating prior to the copper treatment?
how fast did you raise the copper and what test kit are you using to measure its concentration?
Also copper will not treat for flukes.

Tomini was eating yes. Foxface wasn’t. Raised the Copper immediately because I thought I was dealing with Velvet and at that point I already lost a Royal Gramma, Stars and Stripes Puffer, Blue Throat Trigger, Blue Eye Kole Tang and was worried I’d lose more if I didn’t act quick. I’m using an API Copper test kit because it tests for Chelated. I know Copper won’t treat Flukes but I had to take car of the Ich and Velvet first.

[s10corey]

Originally Posted by clevername2000

you need to lower the copper levels to get them to eat then start treatment all over

Yes I know, I stated in my original post I did a water change to lower the Copper a half a point. At this point, I may get rid of the Copper all together and treat with Kick Ich and Rally to get rid of everything.

[lagatbezan]

Originally Posted by s10corey

Yes I know, I stated in my original post I did a water change to lower the Copper a half a point. At this point, I may get rid of the Copper all together and treat with Kick Ich and Rally to get rid of everything.

I would do a water change and raise the copper back slowly after the fish start eating for a day or two. I would also suggest switching the coppersafe for copper power. There has been a lot of discussions lately on how bottles of coppersafe have variable concentration of copper and are not consistent. so depending on how much you added to the tank, your concentration might even be higher then the 2.0 specially since the API test doesn't have a reading between 2 and 4, not to mention extremely hard to read the colors accurately.
unfortunately Kick ich and rally will not guarantee eradication and will not work 100%.
for velvet its copper or Chloroquine phosphate (CP: from Rx or diamondback).
For ich: CP, Copper or tank transfer. Hypo is another choice but there have been strains of ich that are hypo resistant.

[s10corey]

Originally Posted by lagatbezan

I would do a water change and raise the copper back slowly after the fish start eating for a day or two. I would also suggest switching the coppersafe for copper power. There has been a lot of discussions lately on how bottles of coppersafe have variable concentration of copper and are not consistent. so depending on how much you added to the tank, your concentration might even be higher then the 2.0 specially since the API test doesn't have a reading between 2 and 4.
unfortunately Kick ich and rally will not guarantee eradication and will not work 100%.
for velvet its copper or Chloroquine phosphate (CP: from Rx or diamondback).
For ich: CP, Copper or tank transfer. Hypo is another choice but there have been strains of ich that are hypo resistant.

Tomini I’m not as worried about because he was eating before and at the start of the treatment and was even interested in a few pellets I dropped in after the water changed. So I know he has at least the interest in food now. In my experience, I’ve never had an issue with Kick ich not taking care of the problem years ago when I had an outbreak.
I don’t want sound lazy but hypo is a lot of work and very dangerous if messed up even the slightest. I work too much to be able to keep an eye on it. Since I have to keep their two DTs fishless to eradicate everything in them I have the time to run Copper at a lower level if it means they will eat.

[lagatbezan]

yeah definitely lower the copper and get them eating. once they are eating slowly ramp it up within a few days. you can get them out of copper after 14 days if:
1: The copper level was consistent at the therapeutic level the whole time
2: you transfer the fish to a brand new qt at least 10' away. Only the fish gets transferred with as little water as possible. No equipment from the original qt can be used for the new qt. Then observe for at least 4-6 weeks or till your display is ready (76 days of being fallow).
If you are sure you are dealing with velvet the best course of action would be to do a 5 min FW dip, followed by a 75-90 min Acriflavine/rally bath OR 45-50 min formalin bath and then start copper as soon as possible. This will give you a better chance at success.
Also make sure to put an ammonia badge in the qt. They are great.

[s10corey]

Originally Posted by lagatbezan

yeah definitely lower the copper and get them eating. once they are eating slowly ramp it up within a few days. you can get them out of copper after 14 days if:
1: The copper level was consistent at the therapeutic level the whole time
2: you transfer the fish to a brand new qt at least 10' away. Only the fish gets transferred with as little water as possible. No equipment from the original qt can be used for the new qt. Then observe for at least 4-6 weeks or till your display is ready (76 days of being fallow).
If you are sure you are dealing with velvet the best course of action would be to do a 5 min FW dip, followed by a 75-90 min Acriflavine/rally bath OR 45-50 min formalin bath and then start copper as soon as possible. This will give you a better chance at success.
Also make sure to put an ammonia badge in the qt. They are great.

Thanks for the advice. Yes I have one of those coming from Amazon. I also have a Seachem Copper Test kit in the cart that I was going to order. My plan was to get another 29g tank so I have a QT and a HT. Petco has their $1 per gallon sale right now.
If I ran Kick Ich and Rally in the fallow tanks, do you think it would speed up the 76 day cycle? I also have the heaters turned up in both those tanks to help speed up.