How are protomonts not transferred during TTM?

[mic209]

I've been reading up on TTM, one part that confuses me is, how are protomonts not transferred to the next tank? Isn't there a good chance of protomonts being in the few drops of water that make it to the next tank?

[Deinonych]

There is a slight chance. However, any surviving protomonts will still be encysted when the next transfer occurs, provided you do the next transfer within 72 hours (minimum period for excystment).

[ThRoewer]

Timing of the transfers can also help. Always do it in the evening shortly before the light goes out.
Protomonts leave the fish after nightfall. The longest they have been found after leaving the fish was 18h, but usually they encyst sooner.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[mic209]

Originally Posted by ThRoewer

Timing of the transfers can also help. Always do it in the evening shortly before the light goes out.
Protomonts leave the fish after nightfall. The longest they have been found after leaving the fish was 18h, but usually they encyst sooner.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

But where do the protomonts go after they fall off the fish? Into the water column right? So how is it that protomonts aren't transferred into the next tank? And when they encyst, are they firmly attached to something?

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by mic209

But where do the protomonts go after they fall off the fish? Into the water column right? So how is it that protomonts aren't transferred into the next tank? And when they encyst, are they firmly attached to something?

Once a trophont leaves the fish, it becomes a protomont. During this phase, it loses its cilia, flattens its surfaces, and moves onto a substrate for about 2–18 hours. After this stage, the organism stops, sticks to the surface, and encysts, whereupon it becomes a tomont. The cyst hardens in about 8–12 hours (Colorni 1985). Before the cyst forms, the protomont may be susceptible to some treatments for a short period of time. However, once the cyst has formed and hardened around the tomont, it has greater protection against common treatments. The infectious stage, the one found in the water column never exists as long as the 72 hour maximum for transfers is followed

[mic209]

Originally Posted by snorvich

Once a trophont leaves the fish, it becomes a protomont. During this phase, it loses its cilia, flattens its surfaces, and moves onto a substrate for about 2–18 hours. After this stage, the organism stops, sticks to the surface, and encysts, whereupon it becomes a tomont. The cyst hardens in about 8–12 hours (Colorni 1985). Before the cyst forms, the protomont may be susceptible to some treatments for a short period of time. However, once the cyst has formed and hardened around the tomont, it has greater protection against common treatments. The infectious stage, the one found in the water column never exists as long as the 72 hour maximum for transfers is followed

I understand how the crypto life cycle works, but how do you avoid protomonts and tomomts from being transferred from one tank to another? What if when I went to move the fish after 72 hours in tank/container A, I accidently stirred up the bottom of the tank/container. Wouldn't whatever water that came from tank/container be contaminated with tomonts and some of that water would make it into tank/container B when I move the fish?

[snorvich]

If you exceed 72 hours you are at risk. Less than 72 hours, the infectious stage, the phase in the water column, is not present.

[mic209]

Originally Posted by snorvich

If you exceed 72 hours you are at risk. Less than 72 hours, the infectious stage, the phase in the water column, is not present.

But protomonts and tomonts are?

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by mic209

But protomonts and tomonts are?

I suggest you read the stickies, especially this one.

[mic209]

Originally Posted by snorvich

I suggest you read the stickies, especially this one.

I've read those a few times. Been reading heavily about crypto for the past few months. So how is it that tomonts aren't transferred to the next tank? How strong is their bond to the surface they attached to?

[Deinonych]

Strong enough that there is very little risk (if any) of transferring tomonts to the fresh tank.

[mic209]

Originally Posted by Deinonych

Strong enough that there is very little risk (if any) of transferring tomonts to the fresh tank.

Thanks Deinonych for your straight forward answer! So even if I were to scrape the bottom of the tank with a net while trying to catch the fish, that wouldn't release tomonts?

[ThRoewer]

The risk of transferring a protomont is already factored into the process.
Without this risk you would be done after the third transfer.
In theory you could even reuse the transfer tank water for the whole process without risking reinfection.

As for the cyst's adherence, imagine it as a mini barnacle.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[Spar]

Originally Posted by ThRoewer

As for the cyst's adherence, imagine it as a mini barnacle.

I had always thought this also. But in http://www.int-res.com/articles/dao/1/d001p019.pdf they refer to moving tomonts from one container to another by using a paint brush.... that doesn't seem to concreted to me.

[mic209]

Originally Posted by Spar

I had always thought this also. But in http://www.int-res.com/articles/dao/1/d001p019.pdf they refer to moving tomonts from one container to another by using a paint brush.... that doesn't seem to concreted to me.

Hmmm, interesting.

[andrewo]

Great points raised and answered here re the TTM

[dt204]

The way I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong snorvich, is that one of the points to follow is not to use a net if at all possible. Use an easily cleanable Tupperware plastic type container, scoop the fish, and try to transfer the least amount of water possible. After transferring 4 times, the risk of that small amount of water containing anything diminishes to none.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

[mic209]

So the next question here would be; what happens to a Tomomt if it's scraped up? Does it re encyst, die, or?

[ThRoewer]

Originally Posted by Spar

I had always thought this also. But in http://www.int-res.com/articles/dao/1/d001p019.pdf they refer to moving tomonts from one container to another by using a paint brush.... that doesn't seem to concreted to me.

Thanks for that link! (we really need a sticky with a collection of links to research articles about fish diseases)

That the adherence is that low was new to me. This would be a good argument not to use nets but rather use beakers to catch fish from TTM tanks, ideally by chasing them into the beaker.

That study also answers the question how long the cyst can survive in freshwater: 3 hours

Originally Posted by mic209

So the next question here would be; what happens to a Tomomt if it's scraped up? Does it re encyst, die, or?

I don't think it has the ability to re-encyst once the cyst is damaged. Though it seems it isn't damaged if brushed off.