Display Tank water level drop mystery

MrApplebee · 11/16/2017, 03:14 PM

My tank has been running for four weeks now. (4ft long and 340 litres display tank) It has a pretty basic overflow box design. Two standpipes in the weir, one of which is a bit higher than the other. The lower standpipe has a regulator valve which I have adjusted so that the higher stand pipe always has a very slight but steady trickle of water going into it.

I have a tiny marker that I’ve put on the back of the tank to mark the level that I set the display tank to. I also have a marker on the return section of my sump to show where I have the water level of the sump set. I have a tunze auto top off also.

I’ve come home from working away for three days and the volume in the sump is perfect. But the volume in the display tank has dropped about an inch and a half. I’ve checked for leaks and can’t find anything. I also turned all the power off and noticed that the water didn’t rise as high up in the sump upon draining as it usually does when I turn the power off.

There’s probably a really simple explanation for this but I just can’t get my head around it. Any ideas?

Thanks

Mike

MrApplebee · 11/16/2017, 03:15 PM

Just to add, the tank has maintained the levels that I had originally set it to consistently since setting up. This seems to have happened over the last 3 days.

SAT · 11/16/2017, 03:23 PM

There's really only three possibilities: the water is accumulating someplace you're not looking in the tank (e.g., in the overflow box), you have a leak, or lots of evaporation. The first should be easy to rule out, so I'm assuming that's not it.

Has the humidity or air flow changes radically in the area around the tank? Are you showing a salinity increase? If no, it's not evaporation, which leaves us with a leak.

It's sometimes easy for a leak to go undetected for a while, particularly if it manages to channel into the walls somehow. Keep looking.

MrApplebee · 11/16/2017, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAT

There's really only three possibilities: the water is accumulating someplace you're not looking in the tank (e.g., in the overflow box), you have a leak, or lots of evaporation. The first should be easy to rule out, so I'm assuming that's not it.

Has the humidity or air flow changes radically in the area around the tank? Are you showing a salinity increase? If no, it's not evaporation, which leaves us with a leak.

It's sometimes easy for a leak to go undetected for a while, particularly if it manages to channel into the walls somehow. Keep looking.

Thanks.

I’m
Not 100% sure what you mean about water accumulating in the weir? The weir is full of water , at the moment it’s just barely siphoning down the main stand pipe.

The weather has changed drastically the last few days. But, my top up reservoir hasn’t really used an unusual amount of RO water up.

Can’t find a leak anywhere. It’s puzzling me this. Im a bit worried to be honest. Lol

I can’t understand why the water wouldn’t reach the second overflow pipe if the pump is still pumping at the same speed and there is no leak. (If there was a leak big enough the effect both the display tank level and the pumps ability to keep up, the system would have ran dry??)

Could it be something with the pump maybe?

MrApplebee · 11/16/2017, 03:47 PM

When I say the water has changed, I mean it’s been icy cold.

MrApplebee · 11/16/2017, 03:53 PM

**the weather not water. ^^^

mcgyvr · 11/16/2017, 04:28 PM

Water levels can change "some" after oh lets call it "new tank break in" as bacterial slime layers,etc.. start to accumulate inside pipes,etc...
Could have been trapped air,etc... too..
Just continue to monitor it and see how it goes..

MrApplebee · 11/16/2017, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

Water levels can change "some" after oh lets call it "new tank break in" as bacterial slime layers,etc.. start to accumulate inside pipes,etc...
Could have been trapped air,etc... too..
Just continue to monitor it and see how it goes..

Thanks mate. It’s just confusing me as to where the water has gone. I’ve closed the regulator valve on the down pipe a little more so the display tank level has risen and I’ve got a steady trickle down the second stand pipe again. I’ll keep an eye on it. There’s a fair amount of water gone though which is evident from how low the level in the sump is now after the regulator adjustment, absolutely no sign of a leak though. See how it goes, be an absolute nightmare if I have to strip everything down.

mcgyvr · 11/16/2017, 04:45 PM

Well.. the water has evaporated...
Do you have an ATO? or are you manually topping off?

MrApplebee · 11/16/2017, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

Well.. the water has evaporated...
Do you have an ATO? or are you manually topping off?

I have an ATO. The level in the sump was perfect when I returned home today. The level in the display was low.

I have just got the display level back to where it should be by closing the regulator valve on the main stand pipe. So the water level in the sump is now lower than the marker I have on the sump glass to show where the level should be. I’m starting to think it must be a leak....I just can’t figure out where it is and I can’t fogure out why the auto top off hasn’t used anymore RO water than usual.

Smokey Stover · 11/16/2017, 05:23 PM

If the water level in your sumps return chamber is lower than the mark, Why is the ATO not filling it back up to the full line? You do have the sensor/float switch in the return chamber right? Set to that full mark.
Maybe the sensor/switch is stuck or bad?

MrApplebee · 11/16/2017, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smokey Stover

If the water level in your sumps return chamber is lower than the mark, Why is the ATO not filling it back up to the full line? You do have the sensor/float switch in the return chamber right? Set to that full mark.

Sorry, I should have said. When I new that I was going to adjusting the regulator valve, I turned the ATO off. I have now lowered the ATO sensor to the new water level in the sump. I’m going to monitor things and see how it holds out.

billdogg · 11/16/2017, 06:19 PM

Is it possible that there is a restriction in the line from the return pump back to the tank? If the sump is holding a constant level and there isn't a leak, then, at least to my thinking, the most likely reason is that the return flow to the tank has decreased.

jm.02

maddmaxx · 11/16/2017, 07:12 PM

from my understanding. if there was evap that was causing it. it would happen in the return chamber only. you said you have an ATO so if there was evap, your ato would kick on almost constantly to keep up with that much evap. so first one empty would be ato container, then the return chamber, then the main tank/ sump at the same time. but your saying your system is running and the sump levels are consistent so it can not be evap in the main aquarium only. that simply doesnt make sense...

now billdogg comment makes sense to me..

also i thought maybe air in the drains restricting draining potential and it finally "burped" as they say and is now draining at capacity....

Softhammer · 11/16/2017, 07:30 PM

There is no possible way that the display tank can run low with a normal sump level. The sump would drop. Do you have adjustable standpipes? If one slid lower that is the only way. Even if you did have a mystery leak it would show in the sump running low, not the main tank.

heathlindner25 · 11/16/2017, 07:31 PM

Check your salinity.

Softhammer · 11/16/2017, 07:32 PM

Unless..your return pump **** the bed and is just spinning without any meaningful pumping..

MrApplebee · 11/17/2017, 03:27 AM

Cheers for the replies guys.

I’ve checked the salinity and it’s fine.

After readadjusting the regulator valve last night, the display tank appears to have held its level. Would the air lock in drains explain the apparent loss of water? I’m thinking it would if the air lock suddenly buried and water then occupied the space that the air was taking up.

MrApplebee · 11/17/2017, 03:28 AM

*burped not buried^^

homer1475 · 11/17/2017, 05:13 AM

Your running a herbie setup, sometimes you have to fiddle with the valve on the drain. It will not remain constant at all times. Sometimes the littlest variable will affect it.

Mine often times will drain down the overflow until I fiddle with the valve, filter socks plugged up, main tank is slightly higher then it usually is. Fresh sock and I need to turn the valve a bit, snail got down the pipe, fiddle with the valve.

It's the nature of a herbie setup. It is not set and forget like a bean animal.

11/16/2017, 03:14 PM	#1
MrApplebee Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Posts: 60	Display Tank water level drop mystery My tank has been running for four weeks now. (4ft long and 340 litres display tank) It has a pretty basic overflow box design. Two standpipes in the weir, one of which is a bit higher than the other. The lower standpipe has a regulator valve which I have adjusted so that the higher stand pipe always has a very slight but steady trickle of water going into it. I have a tiny marker that I’ve put on the back of the tank to mark the level that I set the display tank to. I also have a marker on the return section of my sump to show where I have the water level of the sump set. I have a tunze auto top off also. I’ve come home from working away for three days and the volume in the sump is perfect. But the volume in the display tank has dropped about an inch and a half. I’ve checked for leaks and can’t find anything. I also turned all the power off and noticed that the water didn’t rise as high up in the sump upon draining as it usually does when I turn the power off. There’s probably a really simple explanation for this but I just can’t get my head around it. Any ideas? Thanks Mike

11/16/2017, 03:23 PM	#3
SAT Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Berwyn, PA Posts: 4,073 Blog Entries: 1	There's really only three possibilities: the water is accumulating someplace you're not looking in the tank (e.g., in the overflow box), you have a leak, or lots of evaporation. The first should be easy to rule out, so I'm assuming that's not it. Has the humidity or air flow changes radically in the area around the tank? Are you showing a salinity increase? If no, it's not evaporation, which leaves us with a leak. It's sometimes easy for a leak to go undetected for a while, particularly if it manages to channel into the walls somehow. Keep looking. __________________ Stuart Current Tank Info: 300G Caribbean biotype reef set up in 2003.

11/16/2017, 04:28 PM	#7
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Water levels can change "some" after oh lets call it "new tank break in" as bacterial slime layers,etc.. start to accumulate inside pipes,etc... Could have been trapped air,etc... too.. Just continue to monitor it and see how it goes.. __________________ Who me?

11/16/2017, 04:45 PM	#9
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Well.. the water has evaporated... Do you have an ATO? or are you manually topping off? __________________ Who me?

11/16/2017, 05:23 PM	#11
Smokey Stover Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Largo, Florida Posts: 361	If the water level in your sumps return chamber is lower than the mark, Why is the ATO not filling it back up to the full line? You do have the sensor/float switch in the return chamber right? Set to that full mark. Maybe the sensor/switch is stuck or bad? Last edited by Smokey Stover; 11/16/2017 at 05:26 PM. Reason: add on

11/16/2017, 03:15 PM	#2
MrApplebee Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Posts: 60	Just to add, the tank has maintained the levels that I had originally set it to consistently since setting up. This seems to have happened over the last 3 days.

11/16/2017, 03:47 PM	#5
MrApplebee Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Posts: 60	When I say the water has changed, I mean it’s been icy cold.

11/16/2017, 03:53 PM	#6
MrApplebee Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Posts: 60	**the weather not water. ^^^

11/16/2017, 06:19 PM	#13
billdogg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grove City, Ohio Posts: 10,806	Is it possible that there is a restriction in the line from the return pump back to the tank? If the sump is holding a constant level and there isn't a leak, then, at least to my thinking, the most likely reason is that the return flow to the tank has decreased. jm.02 __________________ I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter! I can't help that I grow older, but you can't make me grow up! Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer

11/16/2017, 07:12 PM	#14
maddmaxx Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Jersey Shore Posts: 3,003	from my understanding. if there was evap that was causing it. it would happen in the return chamber only. you said you have an ATO so if there was evap, your ato would kick on almost constantly to keep up with that much evap. so first one empty would be ato container, then the return chamber, then the main tank/ sump at the same time. but your saying your system is running and the sump levels are consistent so it can not be evap in the main aquarium only. that simply doesnt make sense... now billdogg comment makes sense to me.. also i thought maybe air in the drains restricting draining potential and it finally "burped" as they say and is now draining at capacity.... __________________ One Life One Shot Current Tank Info: 40B Mixed reef

11/16/2017, 07:30 PM	#15
Softhammer Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Tampa Posts: 235	There is no possible way that the display tank can run low with a normal sump level. The sump would drop. Do you have adjustable standpipes? If one slid lower that is the only way. Even if you did have a mystery leak it would show in the sump running low, not the main tank. __________________ You spent how much on what?

11/16/2017, 07:31 PM	#16
heathlindner25 Moved On Join Date: May 2012 Location: flowery branch georgia Posts: 3,644	Check your salinity.

11/16/2017, 07:32 PM	#17
Softhammer Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Tampa Posts: 235	Unless..your return pump **** the bed and is just spinning without any meaningful pumping.. __________________ You spent how much on what?

11/17/2017, 03:27 AM	#18
MrApplebee Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Posts: 60	Cheers for the replies guys. I’ve checked the salinity and it’s fine. After readadjusting the regulator valve last night, the display tank appears to have held its level. Would the air lock in drains explain the apparent loss of water? I’m thinking it would if the air lock suddenly buried and water then occupied the space that the air was taking up.

11/17/2017, 03:28 AM	#19
MrApplebee Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Posts: 60	*burped not buried^^

11/17/2017, 05:13 AM	#20
homer1475 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 5,313	Your running a herbie setup, sometimes you have to fiddle with the valve on the drain. It will not remain constant at all times. Sometimes the littlest variable will affect it. Mine often times will drain down the overflow until I fiddle with the valve, filter socks plugged up, main tank is slightly higher then it usually is. Fresh sock and I need to turn the valve a bit, snail got down the pipe, fiddle with the valve. It's the nature of a herbie setup. It is not set and forget like a bean animal. __________________ 80G SCA Build: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2560256 Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht: "He's just taking his lunch to work"