Post Traumatic Stress - A broad data collection study and discussion

[Rensmif]

Originally Posted by mkoop

I would like to start collecting data in regards to the impacts of Marine Life on post-traumatic stress.


I will outline a few questions to set as data collection points, but I would also encourage you to use this as a forum of open discussion in regards to how you feel marine life and your tank may influence your disorder. I also want to note, while we see an influx in post-trauma from the recent wars, this should also apply to any veteran who has served in combat and feels they suffer from PTSD.

1. Did you serve in combat? If so, please note the time frames and conflicts.
2. Do you feel you suffer from PTSD?
3. Were you diagnosed with PTSD either through the VA or other reputable means?
4. Do you feel this hobby has an impact on your PTSD?
5. Do you feel that any hobby of equal self enjoyment would have similar impacts on your disorder?

Beyond these questions, please feel free to openly discuss anything you may feel to be of value in regards to this study.

While I understand many may be reserved to share this information openly, if you are more comfortable PMing me whatever you may wish to add, I can certainly post in a manner that will maintain your anonymity.

Thank you and I hope we can get some good conversation and data points generated and maybe be able to help some of our brothers and sisters who are also suffering.

Wonderful NEW forum here but I feel it is appropriate to make sure it is off and running on the correct path to begin with and not alienate anyone.

One of the first things you asked (or seemed to require) is whether or not you have been in combat. If you know anything about PTSD then you understand that it does not ALWAYS come from combat, and that being in combat is NOT a requirement, or the only causes of Military related PTSD.

Let us not forget that Trauma is trauma. PERIOD.

[purge43]

This is the way I look at it.. PTSD... get over it... I was never in actual combat, but i was at the sciene of plane wreckage where 13 of my brothers were killed. and 2 months later 13 more went down into the side of a mountain. Grusome .. yes and smelly...but we're not the only people that experience the destruction of human life. What about the civlant rescue people back here at home or the ER workers, that see it every day of there entire life. My wife works in a ER and I even cry when she comes home and tells me they lost twins of a full term mother that had no complications during the carry, or the teenager in pieces from a stupid drive and drink party ( that most of us did when we were young). Its at the point now that I dont even want her to tell me any more. Im sorry for coming across with this angle, Im not mean, its just this is how my mind has been all messed up by my years. I think we have to be stronge and forget about this stuff... we have bigger things to worry about... the actual taking of another human life... I think we have two existances, one here on earth and another in a higher plane.. some call it our soul.. I have taken human life and I think it marks our soul and all the other souls can see it, it seems when Im around people that dont even know I took a human life, that somehow they can sense I did a really bad thing. Maybe Im totally insane but I think it affects our "Aura" or "glow" and this is what we have to worry about, Not the things we saw or witnessed. I think we have to "fix" that so we can go onto the next life with clean bill.. Im trying to; by trying to do the "right" thing in every situation Im in, of which I probably fail anyway , but I keep trying. Im probably totaly wrong and should be shot or commited, but I think its way more important of what we do instead of what we see. Im really sorry if I upset anyone but this is what this world has turned me into.

[Scorpius]

I was in law enoforcement for almost three years. I was hazed and bullied horribly to the point I was in fear of my life every day I went to work by my coworkers. I got along better with the people I arrested. I was threatened and I left with what little dignity I had left.

I used to suffer from panic attacks every day I woke up while employed. I now work in manufacturing and when things go bad at work I overreact and freak out.

I think I suffer from some sort of PTSD. I have many hobbies which help me cope. I cannot stand being alone without have minor panic attacks.

[Paul B]

PTSD probably comes from all sorts of things but I think the OP was more interested in combat related PTSD. I could be wrong but that is what I get from it and just about everyone who initially responded were in combat.
If it were a thread about anyone with PTSD it would cover many more people such as the few people who survived the Trade Center collapse and numerous other things.
But I didn't start the thread so I am not sure.

[Misled]

I see no need to get into semantics. The OP asked the question if you served in combat or not. That's a yes or no question. He then asks if so, list the time frames and conflicts. Don't read into it any further than that.

[mkoop]

Originally Posted by Rensmif

Wonderful NEW forum here but I feel it is appropriate to make sure it is off and running on the correct path to begin with and not alienate anyone.

One of the first things you asked (or seemed to require) is whether or not you have been in combat. If you know anything about PTSD then you understand that it does not ALWAYS come from combat, and that being in combat is NOT a requirement, or the only causes of Military related PTSD.

Let us not forget that Trauma is trauma. PERIOD.

Hi there, if you have concerns related to my study, please feel free to send me a message with some detailed points. I welcome any ideas or improvements, constructive criticisms or assistance. This is a study that I am personally conducting. I guarantee you, I understand how PTSD works. If you care to address other elements that I have left out, I welcome you to do so and would even go so far as to provide you some data points that I have found. However, what you are stating is simply outside of the scope of my research.

You are absolutely correct. PTSD comes in all shapes and sizes. There is however a significant amount of unknowns still with this disorder. It effects people very differently and I am trying to generalize a group or category to create a control group. IE: Combat, or no combat. Do you personally feel you 'suffer/fight against, whatever you want to call it' vs 'were you clinically diagnosed'. While these questions are very broad, they were about as specific as I could get or felt comfortable asking on an open internet forum. The questions I do ask are ones that I thought would generate responses and not be so specific as to have people avoid them and hinder my study.

When I petitioned the forum admins, mods, powers that be etc, to create a veterans special interest group so we could get more visibility and I could conduct this study, my only intention was to conduct research by attaining some broad data points in relation to PTSD. Upon refinement I realized that was far too broad, and I needed to focus on a more specific area while still keeping broad questions.

The issue we run into is in the way I am controlling this study. I do not have the resources, personal experience or to be honest energy to present this same level of dedicated information gathering for each specific PTSD causation event that any specific person could experience.

The reason I ask the questions I do is to get a broad spectrum of data points that I can compile. In hopes to derive some patterns, maybe make an assumption or two and possibly have another iteration with some different questions to refine or disprove my findings. There are so many variables involved I had to make my project a bit more manageable for a personal study. I am not a research institution, I decided to focus my initial study on specifically combat induced PTSD as it relates to veterans.

[Rensmif]

Originally Posted by Misled

I see no need to get into semantics. The OP asked the question if you served in combat or not. That's a yes or no question. He then asks if so, list the time frames and conflicts. Don't read into it any further than that.

Not trying to be difficult, or step on anybody's toes here, just speaking from my direct knowledge and hand's on experience. The OP did say "Post Traumatic Stress - A broad data collection study and discussion," I assumed if he said broad he meant just that.

I AM a Vet who suffers from PTSD among other injuries (100% total and permanent), I have been a patient as well as a volunteer at my local VA hospital since 2002. I am a peer-support specialist and have been a Vet to Vet group leader since 2005.

Our facility used to have certain groups for Vietnam groups, then certain groups for OIF/OEF groups, and lastly certain groups for female Vets . It was found that by dividing the groups that way "certain people" would feel a sense of my conflict was more important, your deployment was not as hostile as mine. I am sure most Vietnam Vets can confirm that they came home to much, much less the fanfare and welcome than that the current Vets receive now. It was found at my local VA that combining all similarly diagnosed Vet's together, we could all benefit and lift each other up.

Not trying to upset anybody or discount anyone's issue's here, I am speaking from personal knowledge of PTSD, it's ongoing complications and treatment, and my personal interactions with numerous Doctors, Social Workers, and other Peer-Support Specialists who work with Veterans.

[Rensmif]

PM sent- we were posting at the same time LOL

[mkoop]

Originally Posted by Rensmif

Not trying to be difficult, or step on anybody's toes here, just speaking from my direct knowledge and hand's on experience. The OP did say "Post Traumatic Stress - A broad data collection study and discussion," I assumed if he said broad he meant just that.

I AM a Vet who suffers from PTSD among other injuries (100% total and permanent), I have been a patient as well as a volunteer at my local VA hospital since 2002. I am a peer-support specialist and have been a Vet to Vet group leader since 2005.

Our facility used to have certain groups for Vietnam groups, then certain groups for OIF/OEF groups, and lastly certain groups for female Vets . It was found that by dividing the groups that way "certain people" would feel a sense of my conflict was more important, your deployment was not as hostile as mine. I am sure most Vietnam Vets can confirm that they came home to much, much less the fanfare and welcome than that the current Vets receive now. It was found at my local VA that combining all similarly diagnosed Vet's together, we could all benefit and lift each other up.

Not trying to upset anybody or discount anyone's issue's here, I am speaking from personal knowledge of PTSD, it's ongoing complications and treatment, and my personal interactions with numerous Doctors, Workers, and other Peer-Support Specialists who work with Veterans.

You're not stepping on anyone's toes. You present a valid point. I simply had to refine my scope to combat veterans to create a control as taking on PTSD as a whole was simply too much of a bear to wrestle in a personal study.

[Misled]

I agree. I'm just trying to keep this as civil as possible. We've been given a bit of leeway here to discuss these things. I want it to help and I don't want it to get closed down.

[BrianD]

What Jesse said. When discussions start heading towards "aural glow", it is the wrong direction.

[LCDR Noble]

1. Did you serve in combat? If so, please note the time frames and conflicts.
yes, I was enlisted way back in the early 90's on an aircraft carrier during Desert Shield/Storm but as an air traffic controller my job was the same with or without people dying. Im a trauma RN now and was at the Role 3 combat hospital in Kandahar for OEF most of 2012. The base was attacked with rockets but I was never personally shot at. I took care of the combat guys straight out the Blackhawks from the battlefield with no arms and legs. Ive held many dying hands. A wonderful and horrible experience if that makes since.
2. Do you feel you suffer from PTSD?
Not that much anymore. I guess I didn't realize how bad that place was until after I got back home.
3. Were you diagnosed with PTSD either through the VA or other reputable means?
yes through my primary doc but I didn't follow up with the VA. I was on the meds for about 4 months and then tapered myself off them. Now I take nothing.
4. Do you feel this hobby has an impact on your PTSD?
yes, that is the same reason you see aquariums in psychiatrist offices many times.
5. Do you feel that any hobby of equal self enjoyment would have similar impacts on your disorder?
yes I do. I go to the gym also and that helps relieve stress. A idle mind is the the Devils playground and just sitting around doing nothing is the worse thing you could do.

[Bodnaahh]

1. yes - Afghan 2011 - Now-Zad / Shirgazee area

2. yes (minor)

3. no

4. yes, my obsession with the hobby after coming back lead me to study Marine Bio in college actually.

5. I don't think the self enjoyment part of the hobby is the key to its helping. I think its more of the "soothing nature" or just the fact that its like a whole different world or something along those lines.

[TxArmyMan217]

1. Did you serve in combat? If so, please note the time frames and conflicts.
Yes, Baghdad 2008-2009 and 2010-2012.
2. Do you feel you suffer from PTSD?
Yes
3. Were you diagnosed with PTSD either through the VA or other reputable means?
Yes I am diagnosed with PTSD and as I am still Active Duty I am being seen at behavioral Health.
4. Do you feel this hobby has an impact on your PTSD?
Absolutely, Just being able to sit back and look at my tank is very soothing to me.
5. Do you feel that any hobby of equal self enjoyment would have similar impacts on your disorder?
I feel that as long as I have a hobby that keeps me occupied it helps to put the memories behind me. My other hobby is reloading ammo.

[Misled]

Originally Posted by TxArmyMan217

My other hobby is reloading ammo.

That made me smile!!!!

[1fishkeeper]

1. Did you serve in combat? If so, please note the time frames and conflicts.
Yes Asscrackerstan Dec-2001-May 2002, Icrack Sep 2004-Mar 200 (caught a freedom bird but not by choice and left some of my body parts on some hill)
2. Do you feel you suffer from PTSD?
Yes
3. Were you diagnosed with PTSD either through the VA or other reputable means?
Yes
4. Do you feel this hobby has an impact on your PTSD?
Big time it really calms me down when I'm having one of my days.
5. Do you feel that any hobby of equal self enjoyment would have similar impacts on your disorder?
I enjoy going to the range and putting rounds down range. But do a search for my build its called "PTSD treatment tank" in the large tank section

[SkySoldier173]

1. Did you serve in combat? If so, please note the time frames and conflicts.
Mar 2003- Mar 2004 Iraq 2/503rd 173rd ABN
Jan 2005-Jan 2006 Iraq 4/1 FA 1st Armored
Sep 2009- July2010 Iraq 3/25 CAB 25th ID
Jan 2011- Jan 2012 Afghanistan 3/25 CAB


2. Do you feel you suffer from PTSD?
I used to really bad but got treatment


3. Were you diagnosed with PTSD either through the VA or other reputable means?
Yes


4. Do you feel this hobby has an impact on your PTSD?
Yes. The only somewhat enjoyable thing in my life.


5. Do you feel that any hobby of equal self enjoyment would have similar impacts on your disorder?
No

[tjsailosullivan]

I'm really glad to see someone create a tread on this subject and feel this hobby can help many others with similar issues. Kudo's to you and Reef Central for supporting this topic. I've had quite a few deployments in my career to include the intial Special Operations Task Force into Afghanistan/TF-KBAR in 2001. I was medically retired in 2013 (21 years service) as a result of my 2008 combat injuries (80 IED/EFP). Yes I had suffered from some forms of PTSD and many other medical issues from the IED (2 surguries and several bones removed). The hobby to me has been a godsend. I have been a hobbiest for 22 years and planned most the tank that I have today (230 reef) while I was deployed to Iraq in 2007-2008. It helped me take my mind off things a little while I was there and gave me something to look forward to when I returned home. Unfortunately, my tour ended about 10 months into it after a roadside bomb. Months after returning home, I actually dove deep into the reef project as my personal form of therapy and it significantly helped take my mind off of the deployment and the what had happened. It was almost like a crazy obsession which I cant describe. What I can tell you is it that there is definately a stong bond and connection to my tank and my deployment.

Anyways, if there is anyway other way I can support your study please let me know.

here was the story on my incident posted in the local paper for additional SA. Again Kudo's to you and Reef Central for supporting this topic and hope that others will connect.


http://www.tampabay.com/news/militar...in-iraq/694318


Best,

Tim OSullivan

Ohio 230 in Large Tank Forum

[Paul B]

Tim, thank you for your service. I am glad you joined this thread as I am greatful to you along with the other Veterans here. Many of the civilians don't realize that all members of the armed forces are subject to injuries or death in any war no matter where you are deployed in a combat zone.
PTSD, that my generation of Viet Nam Vets never heard of at the time can happen years or even decades after combat. Just this week I am finding out that one of my closest friends who was a Grunt in Nam the year before I was there is having severe issues and it seems the war came back to haunt him.
I don't know how the wars are fought now, I only know about Viet Nam where we stayed a year in the jungle, rarely if ever seeing a building, road, roof, or wall. That, besides the constant combat along with continuous casualties wrecks havoc on young men just as I am sure it does now. I am just surprised it took so long to manifest itself.
I, like you was also blown up but you had much more injuries than I did as I was 200' from the blast that killed a large number of my company. To this day there is a crater there 100' wide that can be seen on Google Earth.
(It was caused during the battle when the 400 NVA tried to over run us and set off 40+ tons of 8" artillery rounds we had piled up on this small firebase.)
I sincerely hope they have something to ease the suffering of you guys who are affected by PTSD.
Welcome home

[Eric Boerner]

Originally Posted by mkoop

Don't get me wrong, I love my reef from a pure hobbyist standpoint as well, but it really helps me to disassociate from those memories for awhile and become consumed in my reef. Sure disassociating won't get any of us through all of this, but we can work on that in other ways, and well its not alcohol(unless its vodka! (dosing! ).

I've dealt with PTSD for 20 years, since leaving the Gulf War. A lot of being able to disassociate isn't so much a way to deal with what you're feeling, but mostly a way to forget the past so those feelings don't surface again. I've found personally that any activity that focuses your thoughts on specific goals, without 'wandering off' into PTSD land, is most beneficial. Reefing (and a number of other activities) certainly does require a lot of focus and concentration to get to your desired end goal (setting up, checking water parameters, cleaning, maintaining, trimming, etc). Anything that doesn't allow your brain to wander off into space is a good thing.

My largest trigger event is loud noises. A car back firing, 4th of July, balloons popping. Depending on the situation and where my head is at in the moment (am I already in anxiety mode or not?), I could hit the meltdown point on those triggers.

Originally Posted by mkoop

1. Did you serve in combat? If so, please note the time frames and conflicts.
2. Do you feel you suffer from PTSD?
3. Were you diagnosed with PTSD either through the VA or other reputable means?
4. Do you feel this hobby has an impact on your PTSD?
5. Do you feel that any hobby of equal self enjoyment would have similar impacts on your disorder?

1. Yes. I was with the advance survey team in Northern Iraq before the Gulf War. 15 Air Force Civil Engineers and Base Management staff without military escorts or EOD went deep into Iraq before the 81st Airborne started landing. Our mission was to repair the air field and set up base of operations that would serve the Northern Joint Task Force. My primary mission was camp design and management, plus mortuary affairs if needed. Unfortunately, during the 12 months I was there, I processed 13 land mine casualties. Explosions outside of noon, meant someone had stepped in the wrong spot. Any large noises close to me is enough to bring up those memories, which could trigger a PTSD event.

2. Yes.

3. Yes. The VA was quick to diagnose me with PTSD, even though I did not think I was suffering from it. I had a number of conversations with the base psychiatrist when I came back about my experiences so that was on record. Plus the VA psychiatrist also stated that it was still persistent since I had severe anxiety and depression bouts, especially after trigger events.

4. Impact... no. Does it help? I 'feel' that any calming activity that can keep your head focused and not wandering off into space is enough to help deal with memories and keeping them from coming to the forefront of your mind. But it isn't going to permanently suppress those memories or feelings. Seeing a psychiatrist/councilor, joining a PTSD group, or medicating are the only 'real' impacts you'll find. You need to talk out and get everything off your chest about your experiences with someone/people who can either help you under what you're going through. When you can accept that everything that happened is done, gone, over with, and you can 'change' the 'feeling' of anger, sadness, or whatnot from those memories, then you can start working on your triggers.

5. See above.

[marietrg]

I was a Navy psychiatrist who served with the 3d Marine Division. I don't have PTSD but I worked with Marines who did My most proud accomplishment is my Fleet Marine Force officer pin. Used to scuba dive in Okinawa. Have a 200 gallon reef tank in my home. The aquarium gives me great peace too! Thanks for your service.

[bill4t]

Man guys, all of you who have served have all my respect in the world and all Americans should feel the same. I love my country and our freedom is only because of you guys. I think if this is a hobby that can help any of the members of any of our military that suffers from this then I think our goverment should look into funding a project like this. Or I think a ton of Americans would even be willing to donate money or equipt for the purpose. In another note it kills me to see men and women who have served our country go without housing medical care food or anything. That's the least we can do for all of you that have given so much for us. It truly makes me sick to my stomach to here the story's of any military person going without.

[bescher]

I was in the service (Army) and was a MP doing convoy escort missions in VietNam as well as Desert Storm and yes I am diagnosed with PTSD and keeping fish helps me immensely.
Particurlarly in watching them, it calms me down so much it's amazing

[Scuba_Steve]

1. Did you serve in combat? If so, please note the time frames and conflicts.

Feb 03 - Feb 04 Kuwait - Iraq
Oct 06 - Jan 08 Camp Taji Iraq
Jan 09 - Jan 10 Camp Taji Iraq... again
Aug 13 - Jan 14 Kuwait (ironically the one that medvaced me out for ptsd, the only non combat tour)

2. Do you feel you suffer from PTSD?

Yes

3. Were you diagnosed with PTSD either through the VA or other reputable means?

Yes

4. Do you feel this hobby has an impact on your PTSD?

Yes I do. There are very few things that can actually calm my anxiety down. None can do so as quickly as working on the aquarium. I just wish I had a tank right now.

5. Do you feel that any hobby of equal self enjoyment would have similar impacts on your disorder?

Scuba diving

[bdancing]

1. Did you serve in combat? If so, please note the time frames and conflicts.
No. I served from 1982-1990, 4 years of which was in spent in Germany. I was a photographer. I photographed everything from promotion ceremonies to autopsies and child abuse. Some of what I saw through the lens will not go away. I am also a domestic violence survivor.
2. Do you feel you suffer from PTSD?
Yes.
3. Were you diagnosed with PTSD either through the VA or other reputable means?
Yes, through the VA. I also requested and received cognitive therapy from the VA, and that has helped me become comfortable in public and when meeting new people.
4. Do you feel this hobby has an impact on your PTSD?
Yes, a huge impact. It calms me when nothing else will. I have spent many sleepless nights reading about it on reefcentral and other sources, learning everything I can, and keeping the focus off memories.
5. Do you feel that any hobby of equal self enjoyment would have similar impacts on your disorder?
Yes, riding my motorcycle, especially pack riding with other clean and sober people, does wonders. Sometimes I just need to change the air in my head, gotta be in the wind to do that...