Dosing to remove PO and NO3

idan555 · 03/22/2018, 10:18 PM

I read a lot about vodka, vinegar and Kordon AmQual plus etc....
So far I dont know what is best or how to dose,
I have 20ppm of NITRATE in my tank and 0.2-0.25ppm PO4, my stone corals hate it, and some about to die.
my total tank with sump is about 50-60gal.

what do you guys using? is it difficult?
is it going to stop my coralline growth?
some people said the corals also lost their colors?

bertoni · 03/22/2018, 11:52 PM

20 ppm of nitrate probably is safe enough. The phosphate might be an issue, though, and the water column could have a lot of organics in it, as well.

There's no one single best answer. In this situation, I'd stop all feeding, and do some 15-20% water changes, maybe once or twice a day, until the phosphate was more under control and, hopefully, the corals seem a bit better. At that point, you could try a number of techniques. If the phosphate has been high for a while, a lot might have adsorbed onto the rock, and some GFO might be a good approach to keeping the level down. Even that can get expensive, though, but I'd start there.

Dosing vinegar or vodka both are reasonable ideas. Some tanks do better with vodka; some do better with vinegar. I'd start with vinegar if the nitrate level remains above your target level, but better skimming and less feeding often do more.

How big is the tank, how much live rock is in it, and how much and what kinds of food go into it?

ramseynb · 03/23/2018, 02:41 AM

Make sure you have a good skimmer if you’re going to carbon dose. It’s an important part of why carbon dosing works. You could also look at ZEOvit (it’s pretty expensive) or biopellets and GFO. Most stories I’ve read about biopellets ended up with a GFO reactor too.

bif24701 · 03/23/2018, 02:51 AM

Those numbers alone are not so high to cause problems alone. How clean is the water? Well maintained? Do water changes and run some good carbon that’s the best way.

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Hitch08 · 03/23/2018, 09:04 AM

Here's a good article on Vinegar dosing:

http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index....arine-aquarium

idan555 · 03/23/2018, 11:03 AM

So I have the tank for about 1 year. All this time I almost didn't have problem. Last week I added a sump and skimmer to my system.
I have 55 gal tank, 20 gal long sump. 60lb live rocks. So far I used to run canister filter.
I have eshopps pf-1000 over flow, hydro 740 return pump, bubble magus curve 5 skimmer, led lights by Current Usa.
I'm doing weekly water changes 15-20%
I have 4 clown fish (1.5" each), 1 blue tang (2.5- 3" long), 2 dunselles (1" each), 2 cleaning shrimps, 1 spider crab.

Ph 8.0
Amonia 0
Nirite 0
Nitrate 20ppm
PO 0.2 ppl
Kh 143ppm
Ca 430 ppm
Mag 1700 ppm (?!)
All result from today, mag test by red sea. Not sure why it's too high, I never dosing. Only think I dosing is .ca once in 2 weeks maybe.
Except that, 0 dosing,0 buffers.
I feed my fish 1/2 frozen cube every 2 days.

Timfish · 03/23/2018, 01:29 PM

+1 to Bif2401. Run GAC and do some water changes. Be careful not to drop your PO4 too low as it can cause a deficiency in your corals that make them very prone to bleaching with slight changes in light, temperature and increased nitrogen. FYI .25 mg/l shouldn't be too high to affect the calcification of many stony corals. For more info here's some links to research on the subject:

Effect of PO4 on growth
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...22098111004588

PO4 deficiency causes bleaching
http://www.indiaenvironmentportal.or...enrichment.pdf
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...015.00103/full
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...601?via%3Dihub

bertoni · 03/23/2018, 11:34 PM

I agree that GAC might help. It's fairly cheap to try, if you have a reactor or power filter of some sort available.

bif24701 · 03/23/2018, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bertoni

I agree that GAC might help. It's fairly cheap to try, if you have a reactor or power filter of some sort available.

Defiantly, wouldn’t and should be good for the water. Just watch out for the large pellet carbon, it’s crap and waste of money. I’m not talking about ROX or Reef SPEC carbon that is small. You should be able to find Marineland Black Diamond Carbon in any pet store or similar, it’s a good carbon.

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Phixman · 03/24/2018, 03:48 AM

I run a chaeto reactor and do 40% water changes.

Alfrareef · 03/24/2018, 12:15 PM

I also don’t believe the NO3 and PO4 values are a concern and I would suggest to start with a good wc. Perhaps 40% and 1 week after another 30%.
Then run a new set of tests.

About Mg value, what salt brand do you use?

idan555 · 03/27/2018, 07:12 PM

I buy the water made from my LFS store. its well know store in palm beach.
same as for the RO water

laverda · 03/29/2018, 03:14 AM

I agree, I don’t think your levels are high enough to be the problem. I would only try to reduce them a little from where they are. What are your corals doing? Your other parameters look ok.
I personally would not trust water from a LFS with out testing it. I would check all your electrical equipment in the tank as well as any magnets. I would also check for chlorimines in your RO/DI and saltwater.

Bpb · 03/29/2018, 04:28 AM

I wouldn’t worry on the nitrates really at all. I’d reduce the phosphates slowly by about 2/3 what they are now. There are fantastic tanks that run their numbers higher than you have them but those are definitely the minority. I’ve found coral health to start declining once PO4 hits about 0.1-0.12 or so.

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tonysi · 03/29/2018, 04:36 AM

You said that you have led lights from current USA, they may not be producing enough light to sustain stony corals. Do you know the specs of the light?

03/22/2018, 10:18 PM	#1
idan555 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 174	Dosing to remove PO and NO3 I read a lot about vodka, vinegar and Kordon AmQual plus etc.... So far I dont know what is best or how to dose, I have 20ppm of NITRATE in my tank and 0.2-0.25ppm PO4, my stone corals hate it, and some about to die. my total tank with sump is about 50-60gal. what do you guys using? is it difficult? is it going to stop my coralline growth? some people said the corals also lost their colors?

03/22/2018, 11:52 PM	#2
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	20 ppm of nitrate probably is safe enough. The phosphate might be an issue, though, and the water column could have a lot of organics in it, as well. There's no one single best answer. In this situation, I'd stop all feeding, and do some 15-20% water changes, maybe once or twice a day, until the phosphate was more under control and, hopefully, the corals seem a bit better. At that point, you could try a number of techniques. If the phosphate has been high for a while, a lot might have adsorbed onto the rock, and some GFO might be a good approach to keeping the level down. Even that can get expensive, though, but I'd start there. Dosing vinegar or vodka both are reasonable ideas. Some tanks do better with vodka; some do better with vinegar. I'd start with vinegar if the nitrate level remains above your target level, but better skimming and less feeding often do more. How big is the tank, how much live rock is in it, and how much and what kinds of food go into it? __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

03/23/2018, 02:41 AM	#3
ramseynb Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: New Braunfels, TX Posts: 630	Make sure you have a good skimmer if you’re going to carbon dose. It’s an important part of why carbon dosing works. You could also look at ZEOvit (it’s pretty expensive) or biopellets and GFO. Most stories I’ve read about biopellets ended up with a GFO reactor too. __________________ How do you make an octopus laugh? Ten tickles!

03/23/2018, 02:51 AM	#4
bif24701 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Florida, FWB Posts: 3,389	Those numbers alone are not so high to cause problems alone. How clean is the water? Well maintained? Do water changes and run some good carbon that’s the best way. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ 180 Mixed Reef SRO-5000 Skimmer Neptune APEX Gold Kessil AP700/ MP60+6105 Kalk+2 part/ Cheato Fuge Current Tank Info: 180 SPS Dominant

03/23/2018, 09:04 AM	#5
Hitch08 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Philly Suburbs Posts: 665	Here's a good article on Vinegar dosing: http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index....arine-aquarium __________________ 120g tank with 40g breeder sump. SVS-30 LifeReef Skimmer. EcoTech Radion Pros.

03/23/2018, 11:03 AM	#6
idan555 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 174	So I have the tank for about 1 year. All this time I almost didn't have problem. Last week I added a sump and skimmer to my system. I have 55 gal tank, 20 gal long sump. 60lb live rocks. So far I used to run canister filter. I have eshopps pf-1000 over flow, hydro 740 return pump, bubble magus curve 5 skimmer, led lights by Current Usa. I'm doing weekly water changes 15-20% I have 4 clown fish (1.5" each), 1 blue tang (2.5- 3" long), 2 dunselles (1" each), 2 cleaning shrimps, 1 spider crab. Ph 8.0 Amonia 0 Nirite 0 Nitrate 20ppm PO 0.2 ppl Kh 143ppm Ca 430 ppm Mag 1700 ppm (?!) All result from today, mag test by red sea. Not sure why it's too high, I never dosing. Only think I dosing is .ca once in 2 weeks maybe. Except that, 0 dosing,0 buffers. I feed my fish 1/2 frozen cube every 2 days.

03/23/2018, 01:29 PM	#7
Timfish Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,985	+1 to Bif2401. Run GAC and do some water changes. Be careful not to drop your PO4 too low as it can cause a deficiency in your corals that make them very prone to bleaching with slight changes in light, temperature and increased nitrogen. FYI .25 mg/l shouldn't be too high to affect the calcification of many stony corals. For more info here's some links to research on the subject: Effect of PO4 on growth https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...22098111004588 PO4 deficiency causes bleaching http://www.indiaenvironmentportal.or...enrichment.pdf https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...015.00103/full https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...601?via%3Dihub __________________ "Our crystal clear aquaria come nowhere close to the nutrient loads that swirl around natural reefs" Charles Delbeek

03/23/2018, 11:34 PM	#8
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I agree that GAC might help. It's fairly cheap to try, if you have a reactor or power filter of some sort available. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

03/24/2018, 03:48 AM	#10
Phixman Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Lynnwood, WA Posts: 176	I run a chaeto reactor and do 40% water changes.

03/24/2018, 12:15 PM	#11
Alfrareef Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Portugal Posts: 405	I also don’t believe the NO3 and PO4 values are a concern and I would suggest to start with a good wc. Perhaps 40% and 1 week after another 30%. Then run a new set of tests. About Mg value, what salt brand do you use?

03/27/2018, 07:12 PM	#12
idan555 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 174	I buy the water made from my LFS store. its well know store in palm beach. same as for the RO water

03/29/2018, 03:14 AM	#13
laverda Registered Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 6,902	I agree, I don’t think your levels are high enough to be the problem. I would only try to reduce them a little from where they are. What are your corals doing? Your other parameters look ok. I personally would not trust water from a LFS with out testing it. I would check all your electrical equipment in the tank as well as any magnets. I would also check for chlorimines in your RO/DI and saltwater. __________________ 240G mixed reef, 29G SPS/LPS clam tank, 50G mixed reef Current Tank Info: 300g mixed reef, 50g cube

03/29/2018, 04:28 AM	#14
Bpb Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 3,148	I wouldn’t worry on the nitrates really at all. I’d reduce the phosphates slowly by about 2/3 what they are now. There are fantastic tanks that run their numbers higher than you have them but those are definitely the minority. I’ve found coral health to start declining once PO4 hits about 0.1-0.12 or so. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

03/29/2018, 04:36 AM	#15
tonysi Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Long Island Posts: 273	You said that you have led lights from current USA, they may not be producing enough light to sustain stony corals. Do you know the specs of the light?