Help please

[cmberry]

ok i have had tanks for the last 30 years. I used to have a saltwater tank back in the day so I figured I would give it another shot. sorry for the pictures. the iphone and the kessel light dont work well together.

Anyway, when i first started i had green star polyps that did good and some branching hammers. They did well also. then they eventually started to be not real happy. hammers died. green star closed up in is in the process of dieing off. the only parameter i have had problems with is nitrogen. ive backed way off feeding to try and minimize this.
i now have a sump in my basement, protein skimmer, mangrove and cheato to suck up nitrogen. I thought my well water maybe the culprit. so i installed a RODI. no change. Nitrogen still wants to climb but ive been doing weekly and even biweekly water changes. The algae is a greenish brown to brown so i was thinking diatoms. my tank is well past cycled been up and running for 6 months. phosphates are zero. i put a anemone in and it almost dies instantly.
fish seem fine. there are small white particles in the water. i first thought they were microbubbles, but some appear to be not round. Thinking maybe plastic from the newly installed pvc plumbing to the sump, but i would think the filter sock would get rid of it so i started thinking maybe its something else. Mag is 1300, calcium 430, alk 9. salinity .025. please advise.

[cmberry]

these are better

[mcgyvr]

***?
Worst pics I've ever seen here..

Turn the blue lights OFF... We can't see a darn thing there and I think I'm having a bad acid trip..

Also.. don't just say "nitrogen" is bad.. (and its not nitrogen BTW..).. Please post your "nitrate" results along with all others you have.. Actual numbers are useful..

[Uncle99]

That's not a mature tank at 6 months by far.
If your having problems with high nitrates, this is a clear sign that your bio filter is still quite young, or two many fish, or too much feed, or all three.
You could consider carbon dosing which will help to establish a larger population of bacteria.
When first cycled, this is just the beginning, not the end and it may be more like 12-18 months to establish a biofilter capable of stabilizing your nitrates.

Corals do not do well in an unstable environment, but, will tolerate minor parameters ranges inconsistencies provided these are stable.

In 30 years, I have never achieved chemically stable water in 6 months.

We start to see good balance in a well maintained tank starting around 12 months.

[cmberry]

Originally Posted by Uncle99

That's not a mature tank at 6 months by far.
If your having problems with high nitrates, this is a clear sign that your bio filter is still quite young, or two many fish, or too much feed, or all three.
You could consider carbon dosing which will help to establish a larger population of bacteria.
When first cycled, this is just the beginning, not the end and it may be more like 12-18 months to establish a biofilter capable of stabilizing your nitrates.

Corals do not do well in an unstable environment, but, will tolerate minor parameters ranges inconsistencies provided these are stable.

In 30 years, I have never achieved chemically stable water in 6 months.

We start to see good balance in a well maintained tank starting around 12 months.

Thank you for your input. The one before was just pretty useless. Ill wait until the tank matures more. the Duncan i have is surviving, just not real happy.

[cmberry]

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

***?
Worst pics I've ever seen here..

Turn the blue lights OFF... We can't see a darn thing there and I think I'm having a bad acid trip..

Also.. don't just say "nitrogen" is bad.. (and its not nitrogen BTW..).. Please post your "nitrate" results along with all others you have.. Actual numbers are useful..

[cmberry]

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

***?
Worst pics I've ever seen here..

Turn the blue lights OFF... We can't see a darn thing there and I think I'm having a bad acid trip..

Also.. don't just say "nitrogen" is bad.. (and its not nitrogen BTW..).. Please post your "nitrate" results along with all others you have.. Actual numbers are useful..

Thank you for the insulting advice. I realize it’s nitrate. And I did post levels. I also posted that my iPhone and kessil aren’t cooperating with pics. It’s really not that blue. I’m glad you can troll the new reefer section to make u feel substantial.

[mcgyvr]

Relax there fella... No need to get triggered so easily... I was actually nice..
I don't see where you posted your nitrate levels in the original post...
And turning the blue channel off/way down will draatically improve your photos and allow much better color rendition...Try that and post the pics again..

Particulate could be sand/contaminates in the sand or it could be animals like pods,etc...

[Daddyrawg]

Yes that is mac being nice :P

[cmberry]

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

Relax there fella... No need to get triggered so easily... I was actually nice..
I don't see where you posted your nitrate levels in the original post...
And turning the blue channel off/way down will draatically improve your photos and allow much better color rendition...Try that and post the pics again..

Particulate could be sand/contaminates in the sand or it could be animals like pods,etc...

With two water changes. Inverts are more active. Nitrate was about 20ppm before. DUNCAN still isn’t happy however, green star I’m pretty sure is a rip. The red stuff growing is I assume a red coralline or something? Maybe a sponge. I have a doser now and will have it up amid running.
I guess I just need to get things stable and let the tank mature more before I. Try again.

[mcgyvr]

Its highly unlikely that dosing is needed at this point.. 10-20% water changes every other wek alone are usually more than sufficient until you have quite a few actively growing corals.. Water changes alone will keep levels where they need to be.. Dose ONLY when water changes arent sufficient..

Those pictures are much better...You are certainly in the new tank ugly stages with green hair/film algae and even some typical cyanobacteria... Best to wait all that out before attempting corals.. 20ppm of nitrate in a tank that age is not a problem at all..Thats actually fairly good..Often new tanks are 50+ppm... Time/patience is your friend here...let the uglies pass..

[Uncle99]

Originally Posted by cmberry

With two water changes. Inverts are more active. Nitrate was about 20ppm before. DUNCAN still isn’t happy however, green star I’m pretty sure is a rip. The red stuff growing is I assume a red coralline or something? Maybe a sponge. I have a doser now and will have it up amid running.
I guess I just need to get things stable and let the tank mature more before I. Try again.

I don't see much wrong, just a bit early in the maturity cycle.

Continue to work towards stability in all 8 major parameters and once you can achieve this, most all corals will do quite well.

Stability also comes with making changes REAL slow, but consistently.

I certainly agree you should be able to be in target range with a good salt and 10% change weekly. Also, keep nutrients as low as possible, but not zero, some have found N 2-5ppm, maybe up to 10ppm and P to work in the 0.03 -0.1ppm range.

I would commence carbon dosing if your N is above 30ppm, otherwise not.

When tests show a trend downwards in Alk, this is when you start dosing, but start by hand first so you get a feel for the consumption rate.

Could be a bit messy for another few months so scrub what you need to, keep nutrients low as possible

From what I see in your pics, your certainly moving in the right direction.

[cmberry]

Thank u all for the advise. Dosing with vinegar now. I drank the vodka. :-)

[outssider]

Originally Posted by cmberry

I thought my well water maybe the culprit. so i installed a RODI.

If you originally filled the tank with tap water (well water), you may have gotten some type of contaminant (copper/zinc/tin or other metal). invertebrates can be very sensitive to some metals.

[Small Heavens]

To control the nitrates you can try using salt sprayed with bacteria that eats the nitrates, I use probiotic reef salt from aquaforest and keep one of those nanos that people claim cannot be done.

Pachyclavularia, or Briareum, Green star/five star polyps can be different types, the asbestos version is highly toxic and should be kept alone. They also like some nitrates, right now the problem in your tank is probably the anemone that died, you need to try to salvage what you can from dying along with the anemone because it released its stingers into the water column when it died, together with lots and lots of ammonia.

Anemones are very tired right when you put them into a new tank. They do not have lots of energy and you have to make sure it does not turn over on its mouth and that it will not be pushed around but settle. I would not suggest mixing them with reef corals, anemones comes from costal waters and are not used to the toxins found in the reef stingers. Also anemone fishes are not reef swimmers and live most their life in fear of their lives if you mix them in with open reef swimmers.

Less judgement, more facts, more support and more actual love of the marine lifeforms we keep will get you a long way. Good luck and remember that wild caught fishes die like fruitflies because the psychological trauma stresses them out.

[phender]

Originally Posted by Small Heavens

........Anemones are very tired right when you put them into a new tank. They do not have lots of energy and you have to make sure it does not turn over on its mouth and that it will not be pushed around but settle. I would not suggest mixing them with reef corals, anemones comes from costal waters and are not used to the toxins found in the reef stingers. Also anemone fishes are not reef swimmers and live most their life in fear of their lives if you mix them in with open reef swimmers.

Less judgement, more facts, more support and more actual love of the marine lifeforms we keep will get you a long way. Good luck and remember that wild caught fishes die like fruitflies because the psychological trauma stresses them out.

Not sure where you got your facts, but while some anemones are not reef dwellers (haddoni, LTA, malus) many (gigantea, BTA, H. magnifier, H. crisps, S. mertensii) do live on the reef in close proximity to corals and even intermingled within the coral branches. Obviously the anemone fish that live in these anemones are quite used to having other reef fish around them and routinely drive away butterfly fish that could otherwise eat the anemone. Anemone fish are so aggressive in fact that many will try to chase divers away from their home. They tend to rule the roost in a mixed reef tank.

[Small Heavens]

Originally Posted by phender

Not sure where you got your facts,

Hey Phil - I am a hobby aquarist so established experts and their reports, is the only source available to me. Reading anecdotal reports online is obviously entertaining but unfortunately not much use as a source, which is why we all distrust eachother instead of listening to new information with interest.

Originally Posted by phender

but while some anemones are not reef dwellers (haddoni, LTA, malus) many (gigantea, BTA, H. magnifier, H. crisps, S. mertensii) do live on the reef in close proximity to corals and even intermingled within the coral branches.

This is about shallow-, middle- and deepwater setups, not a questionnaire about the ability of sealife to climb onto land. Some anemones are found right on top of the beach, the biggest types prefer somewhat better space obviously. It just means the bigger nems does not live on top of river outlets as often as the beach-climbing stingers.
You say that shallowwater dwellers also live near reefs, yes correct - there are many shallowwater corals. Just like the anemone-families of stingers, the shallowwater corals often need more nutrient-rich water & can handle muddied waters, which deepwater dwellers cannot. We can also just talk about the needs of rainbow bottom anemones, then anemones need cold water and no light at all but right now we were on about a somewhat normal saltwater setup.

*A myth* circulating online about anemones: is that they need "nothing but light" to stay alive. If the anemone is never fed and the water is kept at zero nutrients because it is really calibrated to suit deepsea dwellers, some anemones does not actually survive, even though supplied with photosynthetic activity. Anemones, can absorb both ammonia and nitrates, not something readily available in all setups.

Originally Posted by phender

Obviously the anemone fish that live in these anemones are quite used to having other reef fish around them and routinely drive away butterfly fish that could otherwise eat the anemone.

Anemonefishes are a damsel and quite old. They are based in nesting in family groups and comes in several distinct types. They are also very different from one another. They have the commonality of being anemonefishes, so your generalisation seems brought on by either a need to cherry-pick your arguments or general lack of knowledge about the fishes.

The more aggressive types are easily recognisable on them being more red, and much larger, than the commonly kept amphiprion percula and a. ocellaris. Although some people use the more aggressive behaviour to endorse mixing clownfish with reef swimmers, none of the fishes live in that close proximity to eachother in the wild and the fish will live it's whole life in *defend my territory* behaviour mode, which is somewhat limiting the natural behaviour of the creature.

- Amphiprion percula & a. ocellaris move with [left-to-right] motion and are orange, white and black, small and with medium-thick membrane tissue over their dorsal spines.

- Premnas biaculeatus, the anemonefishes that lives in the solitary form of entacmaea quadricolor, are left-to-right swimmers and have more membrane on their dorsalspikes to not hurt their rock-hiding anemone host, than anemonefishes that dwell with sandy based nems. The p. biaculeatus also have pointy spines on their cheeks. These spines will not be on the fishes that have more open water around them (they prefer to use their chin to anchor to surfaces but they do nip eachother on the same spot on the cheek as the spine-cheeked fishes).

- Amphiprion polymnus is medium sized and medium aggressive, their pectoral fins are yellow but can lack colour because of nutrition, their main families are coloured black and white while some outerzone variations also range from dark coffeebrownish, to brighter orangery colours. Their females have a droplet shape and velvet black eyes. Their males have more slender shapes and their eyes change colour ranging between dark golden brown and pale golden grey. These fishes have veil-like membranes and swim with [up-and-down] motion.

I do not intend to go through all the types of fishes generally united into the term *clownfishes* because it is like talking about *keeping monkeys*, one really have to get a little deeper into what kind of clownfish, if any, is right for individual aquarium setups.

None of these fishes survive in the wild without nesting in anemones.

Originally Posted by phender

Anemone fish are so aggressive in fact that many will try to chase divers away from their home. They tend to rule the roost in a mixed reef tank.

Yes correct, that is what they do, nest and chase away stuff from the nest. They spend their free time memorising swim patterns, work together as a pack and they may use their anemone as a weapon against other fishes, it all does give them some tools to stand their own against the freewater swimmers. Anemonefishes are trick swimmers that lives up to 7 times the life expectancy of fishes of similar size. They survive by teaching eachother how to use the ocean currents to their advantage, while living with parent- and sometimes even grandparent-generations in their nesting family. They spend -all their lives- standing in one spot and swimming around that one spot, and are usually the offspring of the fishes that nest in that anemone. They also recruit juvenile fishes from the surrounding families but the larvae detect traces in the water that makes them seek out populated nests automatically. For well established a. polymnus nests, the selfrequirement vs. strangerrecruitment in the wild was aprox 80% vs. 20%. ALL they do, every day, is circle around their anemone (in circles). They stand at the most optimal points for current and food, throughout the day hours. At morning and dusk, they circle around some more and the female makes sure her nest is supertight and the male & juveniles will come to check that they have good spots to sleep and they will play around and so forth. If they have sand-dwelling anemones the females may dig around to supply better sleeping grounds for her young, and she will show her swimming skills to young that is possible still in the process of recruitment into the family.

- Always introduce juvenile clowns in the spot you prefer them to stay in, because they will build up their brains' map of the surroundings, from that spot & outwards. They stand with their face into the current so they can see food coming towards them and love to balance in the current near powerheads & corners, ready to jump into the current at speed.

When the aquarists forces the day, of anemonefishes, to always be tightly packed with close neighbours, their territory becomes smaller and smaller, compared to its natural state. Sometimes, anemonefishes are known to rip through, anemones. This happens because of the way the Anemonefishes' species, mark territory.

- They will make a specific motion, let us call it *All My Power in a slap to Scare away strangers*.

They do that motion, to stir up zooplankton and to show the other fishes, or humans outside the glass, that the territory belongs to them and how big and strong they are. This is especially rampant with wild caught fishes, tank-raised fishes seem far less scared of potential death from all angles. The movement is instinctual, the aquarist cannot stop the fish from using that move to mark territory.

The aquarist can only make sure the anemonefishes have enough territory around their anemone, to mark their territory, somewhere else than inside the guts of the defenceless anemone.

People without anemones who do keep clownfishes, might see fishes that survive but online forums are also full of people who cannot understand what is killing their clowns, I have no idea why there should be any dismissive response to informing people more about the lifeforms but keeping aquaria is not about keeping landscapes that moves pleasingly all over. It is about living creatures & we all want to see them be in good homes. Anemonefishes are family fishes that learns through observation, their behaviour becomes twisted faster than types of fishes that are mostly instinctual and they are supposed to grow up with a parent-couple or even two generations of older fishes, right by their side to teach them everything.

I just try to give in depth inspiration for people to futher study their own passions. If you just want people to know how to put fishes into water and force them to live there, I suggest that you watch otherwise beautiful videos like this one:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cVOJcKfZZCU

[Small Heavens]

*ps.

The white particles might be oversaturate minerals coming out of solution or white rotifers or some kind of spawning going on but otherwise I am not sure what it could be.

I use filtered ground water and have about 22ppm nitrates going into the change water mix before salting it but the tank water column is on zero ppm nitrates. No sump, no macro algae and no added filter media to target nitrates in the setup. Try shifting to something like aquaforest's probiotic reefsalt to keep 'em nitrates down.

[cmberry]

OMG. I found out the problem. For the last two months I have been using a faulty refractometer. I bought a blenny bcs my other one decided to commit suicide by squeezing through my overflow. When I added it, I noticed the blemish in the water. you know, kind of like when you pour saltwater in fresh water. Well I rushed to get another hydrometer and sure enough. Saltwater content was at 1.015. Im surprised anything made it through the last three months. The deeper I get into this hobby, i realize that often the answer is something simple. Even though Im reading through volumes trying to figure it out. Anyway, now I have a bigger sump, a bigger pump to push water out of the basement, and a RODI system in my basement. lol All bcs of a faulty refractometer.

[Small Heavens]

Wonderful, congratulations on both finding the solution while also getting gear that prevents possible future problems!

I think we all mostly make a ton of mistakes in the beginning until all the stuff we read to prepare is hammered into practical experience along the way - good luck & enjoy it.

[phender]

Your responses to my post don't seem to be very coherent. Could it be that English is not your primary language?

Originally Posted by Small Heavens

Anemonefishes are a damsel and quite old. They are based in nesting in family groups and comes in several distinct types. They are also very different from one another. They have the commonality of being anemonefishes, so your generalisation seems brought on by either a need to cherry-pick your arguments or general lack of knowledge about the fishes.

The more aggressive types are easily recognisable on them being more red, and much larger, than the commonly kept amphiprion percula and a. ocellaris. Although some people use the more aggressive behaviour to endorse mixing clownfish with reef swimmers, none of the fishes live in that close proximity to eachother in the wild and the fish will live it's whole life in *defend my territory* behaviour mode, which is somewhat limiting the natural behaviour of the creature.

Again, I would like to know where you are getting your information. (Seriously, a link to a website or a book title would be helpful.) While the tomato clown clad is generally red in color, most of the other highly aggressive clowns (chrysopterus, the clarkii clad, akindynos, etc. ) are brown and white. I have kept 7-8 different species of clowns in my 40 years of raising and breeding clowns in reef tank set-ups(including A. percula and ocellaris) and I would have to say that 99% of the time, they spent their time calmly lounging in their anemone or exploring their tank.

They survive by teaching each other how to use the ocean currents to their advantage, while living with parent- and sometimes even grandparent-generations in their nesting family.

It would be impossible for clownfish to live with their grandparents. Only one breeding pair exists per anemone. For grandparents to be in the anemone that would mean they would have had to stop breeding and given up their breeding rights to a subordinate pair,(one of which would have to be their offspring) which doesn't happen. What is the source of your info?

For well established a. polymnus nests, the selfrequirement vs. strangerrecruitment in the wild was aprox 80% vs. 20%. ........... If they have sand-dwelling anemones the females may dig around to supply better sleeping grounds for her young, and she will show her swimming skills to young that is possible still in the process of recruitment into the family.

Adult clownfish don't care for their young. Once the eggs hatch, the parents are done. The breeding pair in an anemone spend most of their time harassing the subordinate fish in their anemone, not teaching them lessons.
The other reason that this quote and one above are not true is that newly hatched anemone fish spend the first ~2 weeks of their lives in the plankton layer. Studies show that clownfish babies don't settle into the anemones where they were born. In this particular study, clowns in their study settled closer to their parent anemone than they thought they would, but still not in their parent's anemone. "Here, we solve the mystery of the natal origin of clownfish (Amphiprion polymnus) juveniles by mass-marking via tetracycline immersion all larvae produced in a population. In addition, we established parentage by DNA genotyping all potential adults and all new recruits arriving in the population. Although no individuals settled into the same anemone as their parents, many settled remarkably close to home. Even though this species has a 9–12 day larval duration, one-third of settled juveniles had returned to a 2 hectare natal area, with many settling <100 m from their birth site." (click to see the entire study)

You say that your only source of information is from the experts and their reports. Could you supply links to those reports, because I have read the reports of experts (both hobbiest and scientist) and spoken with many of them personally and much of your information just doesn't match up with my 40 years of keeping anemone fish and their host anemones or any of the articles, books or reports I have read.

[Small Heavens]

Originally Posted by phender

Your responses to my post don't seem to be very coherent. Could it be that English is not your primary language?

Phil, now that you bring up your comprehension skills, and language, let us talk about comprehension skills and language.

- English is a very poorly Latinised language, which was made during the Christian age of Europe and is made up of a slang of local words, heavily influenced by Danish in the period where Danes invaded Denmark, only to be impossible to remove until French born Danes removed the other Danes from England.

- Danish is a very-VERY poorly Latinised language, which was made during the Christian age of Europe, and is made up by a local slurs of such things as ancient Phoenician language migrating up through the black pottery culture and a drizzle on top, of latin.

- Latin is the system the west use to make sure language is based on factual information and not some made up memorised bs and Spanish is a *Romance* language, meaning it is super strong in factual capabilities.

- American.... is slang, developed by Hicks in the middle of nowhere based on whatever Swedish or Danish or Irish or French or whatever else was speaking as you went along, not very interesting for anybody who cares about anything actually.....like you larp and you simplify and make nonsense out of things without knowing neither where anything comes from or why you are changing it.

I never speak American Phil, I speak English, reading and comprehension is a skill everyone starts to learn in preschool and it is not up to me to make sure you can pay attention in 45min and learn something.

In American "one fish, multiple fish" is pronouncing fish in Danish "en fisk, flere fisk" but fish in the English language is called "one fish, multiple fishes" because of the stronger latin influence, I sincerely doubt that you have even learned Spanish despite the fact that wast parts of the so-called united states of america was always compromised by Spanish settlers, because you seem to simply try to discredit that I have anything to add to the forum, rather than argumenting anything to actually counter any of the information I added to the debate.

Originally Posted by phender

Again, I would like to know where you are getting your information. (Seriously, a link to a website or a book title would be helpful.)

Phil, if I one day make a comment about magnetism and somebody charge at me demanding me to show a source documenting "this so-called magnetism" I would probably just say you have to keep up to date with stuff like that by yourself. I started reading biology and chemistry around third grade after reading through a ton about Latin because I was frustrated with the primitive language my school teachers was teaching me.

You have to educate yourself or pay somebody to educate you, nobody got time for that fast food version of sources that you expect to be around somewhere.

Perhaps you should try reading around on WetWebMedia but I fear their demand that you study by yourself might demand toomuch of your concentration and comprehension level, you do make a lot of complaints.

Originally Posted by phender

While the tomato clown clad is generally red in color, most of the other highly aggressive clowns (chrysopterus, the clarkii clad, akindynos, etc. ) are brown and white.

Phil.....clowns are called clowns, among other things because their face turns dark if they are scared and whiter when they are carefree and happy, kinda like a clown putting on makeup when they feel like laughing alittle - I have no idea why you are having this argument with me.

Yes, the clowns' original colours (stop spelling colour wrong Phil), would have evolved from duller into brighter versions, orange, red and yellow being added only when pigments are available in their development tree and their foodstuffs - I have no idea why you are having this argument with me.

Originally Posted by phender

I have kept 7-8 different species of clowns in my 40 years of raising and breeding clowns in reef tank set-ups(including A. percula and ocellaris) and I would have to say that 99% of the time, they spent their time calmly lounging in their anemone or exploring their tank.

Firstly I would like to personally thank you for keeping anemonefishes that spent 99% of their time being happy tank fishes, saving fishes from the plastic gyres is pretty much the most important thing in all of this. With people like you who learn and spread knowledge of keeping marine lifeforms, human-kind does have a chance of doing something real to save life diversity in the oceans and I am honestly very glad that so many people have spent their hard earned cash and free time, keeping saltwater aquaria.

Your efforts are a real achievement and I mean that.

I also, have spent about 30 years being seriously into the topic and the more I read from older established breeders like you, the more I get scared that you are stuck in the past in regards to the information you have. It is not enough to get upset and demand a fast food source to keep up, you have to keep up and go dig into it yourself Phil.

Originally Posted by phender

It would be impossible for clownfish to live with their grandparents. Only one breeding pair exists per anemone. For grandparents to be in the anemone that would mean they would have had to stop breeding and given up their breeding rights to a subordinate pair,(one of which would have to be their offspring) which doesn't happen. What is the source of your info?

Sigh, deeeeeep sigh, you know Phil, out beyond your nose tip, the ocean have divers who go and stick in DNA tests on these things and make studies and stuff. You know, kinda like if you had the first zoo with a chimpanzee but some woman went into the jungle and studied the chimpanzee there - and brought DNA kits?

Polymnus specifically are the species that I research up on the most. These fishes have been documented in nature, to grow so old that they stop being reproductive and allow the next pair in line to become the breeding pair. The grandparents continue to guard the nest and the young and get protection and food from the generations that they nurtured, they are generational hermaphrodites - I don't know why you keep forcing me to state the obvious facts like a child that never heard about magnetism before and demanding an explanation while somehow trying to make me look bad. All I am doing is pointing out known established facts and trying to calm you down from hijacking the topic with trolling me.

Originally Posted by phender

Adult clownfish don't care for their young. Once the eggs hatch, the parents are done. The breeding pair in an anemone spend most of their time harassing the subordinate fish in their anemone, not teaching them lessons.

The larvae are washed away with the current and returns by following chemical traces in the area, to nests and like you have seen 10000000 million times in creatures like birds, only the nice looking nests and nest-keepers, gets all the attention. Otherwise the juveniles just swim away to find that wonder-fish they instinctively know is out there somewhere.

But Phil, let us just state the obvious:
The subordinate fishes can remain subordinate indefinitely, as long as the dominant fish dominates them - now you seem to demand that I explain you the basic purpose of dominance but you seem so undereducated in what you are talking about that I have no idea of where to start to get you up to date in this stuff Phil.

Every time they dominate the subs, they trigger chemical responses in the subs, keeping them subby, I hope this is cohesive enough because real educations costs real money Phil, you are really testing my patience.

Clownfishes use a PACK SYSTEM with tank and skirmishers.
Do you understand this Phil? The big fishes need the smaller fishes for confronting faster & smaller swimmers that would otherwise have harassed the heavy slow breeding female.

They spend - all their lives, practising this dynamic, chasing eachother around and checking if everyone are strong, fit for the fight and each juvenile fish knows how to flee from bigger predators (which is why the small fishes wanna be in the anemones, to flee from bigger predators by dodging them around their anemone, Phil, you are forcing me to state all the obvious, I feel like you forced me to pull out all your nails).

And should any one fish be found to weak for playing, it is forced to flee or be killed there, fishes are not humane creatures.

Originally Posted by phender

The other reason that this quote and one above are not true is that newly hatched anemone fish spend the first ~2 weeks of their lives in the plankton layer. Studies show that clownfish babies don't settle into the anemones where they were born. In this particular study, clowns in their study settled closer to their parent anemone than they thought they would, but still not in their parent's anemone.

I hope I remembered to mention that the 80% vs. 20% balance was to be found in the biggest (regional alphas)fishes of the areas?

The biggest families are getting all the attention from all juveniles, basically all the kids wanna go live with the royal families, regardless where they are born.

Originally Posted by phender

"Here, we solve the mystery of the natal origin of clownfish (Amphiprion polymnus) juveniles by mass-marking via tetracycline immersion all larvae produced in a population. In addition, we established parentage by DNA genotyping all potential adults and all new recruits arriving in the population. Although no individuals settled into the same anemone as their parents, many settled remarkably close to home. Even though this species has a 9–12 day larval duration, one-third of settled juveniles had returned to a 2 hectare natal area, with many settling <100 m from their birth site." (click to see the entire study)

No family can recruit all the juveniles and they will chase away the weaker specimens that disperse to take other choices. Just like what happens everywhere else in nature but I guess you became confused because you did not catch that I am talking about the core knowledge of the species, not a little study of their everyday doings.

Originally Posted by phender

You say that your only source of information is from the experts and their reports. Could you supply links to those reports, because I have read the reports of experts (both hobbiest and scientist) and spoken with many of them personally and much of your information just doesn't match up with my 40 years of keeping anemone fish and their host anemones or any of the articles, books or reports I have read.

Again, I think many people inhere could do with reading alittle on WetWebMedia but I cannot just mention that because then you trolly and hostile guys just try to accuse me of working for that site and ask me to be blocked from here and we can all do with less drama now Phil.

Be careful with becoming the biggest hobbyist a full 40 years ago and then bark at the new information as it surfaces.

For the final time Phil, a generous offer but no, I will not deliver you the internet link to my claim to reading something about magnetism or anything else that I have read, you have zero idea about how much information one person can read through their lives and sorry, I just do it for me, I am NOT a professor, and I do NOT get paid to pass these mountains of human research on to anybody, nor to keep lists of where they were publish, what do you think this is, your kindergarten teacher??

I do not know why that argument makes you feel strong but you do repeat it a lot.

Let us just admit that you have become somewhat archaic in the hobby although you started out in the more pioneer-hobbyist age and you unfortunately generalise about clownfishes a lot and I simply tried to force you to eat new information but you didn't wanna do that for some reason.

[Small Heavens]

Originally Posted by cmberry

I bought a blenny bcs my other one decided to commit suicide by squeezing through my overflow. When I added it, I noticed the blemish in the water. you know, kind of like when you pour saltwater in fresh water. Well I rushed to get another hydrometer and sure enough. Saltwater content was at 1.015. Im surprised anything made it through the last three months.

Sorry about that but as you mentioned it could have gone worse! You have got super good gear and a healthy tank and should be able to return to enjoying your hobby.

[phender]

Originally Posted by Small Heavens

blah, blah, blah.....lots of crazy stuff.....Blah, Blah, Blah

All you had to say was "my info came from WetWebMedia", when I questioned your facts the first time. I thought it sounded similar to things I had read there ~10 years ago, I just wanted confirmation.

Instead you went off on two crazy rants.

Personally I have found WetWebMedia less than credible in many situations, but you are free to get your info from wherever you want. I was just trying to find out if there is some ground breaking information out there that I would like to look into and where I could find it.

[Sk8r]

This is a dumpster fire of a thread and I am closing it. NTTH members, this should be a place for assistance to novices, not diatribes, critiques, name-calling and debate.