carbon dosing cyano fix anyone?

[johnfallon135]

has anyone figured this out yet or is carbon dosing still ultimately a nuisance from cyano?

[RobZilla04]

Some have experienced an outbreak of cyano when carbon dosing. I don't fully understand the question you are asking.... "is dosing a nuisance from cyano"?

[johnfallon135]

Originally Posted by RobZilla04

Some have experienced an outbreak of cyano when carbon dosing. I don't fully understand the question you are asking.... "is dosing a nuisance from cyano"?

has anyone found a fix for the cyano outbreak from carbon dosing yet.

[mcgyvr]

Has someone been sampling the Vodka maybe?

John,
Have you ever tried to read many of your posts as if you were an outsider?
They are all rather short/cryptic..

[Optionman]

Originally Posted by johnfallon135

has anyone found a fix for the cyano outbreak from carbon dosing yet.

i had a cyano outbreak after carbon dosing. i did extra water changes and syphoned it away as best i could. the worst of it eventually passed though not 100%. not an issue anymore.

[reefgeezer]

Some carbon sources seem to encourage Cyano more than others. IME, vinegar is a good choice.

[bertoni]

Switching the type of organic carbon sometimes seems to help. Other than that, I know of no solutions. You could consider adding some GFO into the mix as an experiment, but I'd watch the corals (if any) carefully.

[DesertReefT4r]

Syphon out and increase flow. Nutrients feed cyano but carbon dosing will decrease nutrients so do t do much to decreae3 no3 or po4 if its already low. Cyano likes lowish flow but can take a decent amount flow as well but it does not do well in high flow areas. Its a bacteria so carbon dosing will fuel it and it will consume nutrients as is the goal with carbon dosing. The trick is to find that balance between the cyano and the bactieria we want. Some have had success by removing it and increasing flow letting good bacteria take over and out competing the cyano, decreasing the dose of the carbon source or switching carbon sources. I had also had good results with Red Slime Remover but was not dosing carbon at the time.

[johnfallon135]

wonder why people even bother dosing carbon then..

[mcgyvr]

Originally Posted by johnfallon135

wonder why people even bother dosing carbon then..

What?...
Its highly effective at reducing nitrate and phosphate levels..

There seems to be a slight chance that if you use certain forms of carbon that it "seems" to cause a minor cyano issue on occasion..
Its not a certainty. There is no "100% you will get cyano if you dose vodka".. Its happened to some any not others..
There is really no scientific proof that I've seen that carbon dosing causes a cyano bloom..

[reefgeezer]

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

What?...
Its highly effective at reducing nitrate and phosphate levels..

There seems to be a slight chance that if you use certain forms of carbon that it "seems" to cause a minor cyano issue on occasion..
Its not a certainty. There is no "100% you will get cyano if you dose vodka".. Its happened to some any not others..
There is really no scientific proof that I've seen that carbon dosing causes a cyano bloom..

+1

If I understand correctly... dosing a carbon source allows organic compounds to form that bind nitrate, phosphate, and other elements... Bacteria then propagate that can use these organic compounds further binding the nutrients. Cyano is a bacteria also. I think it can use the same organics to attain the nutrients it needs. I also think that differing strains use different organic compounds. Could changing the carbon source change the organics created and starve out the Cyano? IDK, but it's worth a shot. As always, do it slowly.

[johnfallon135]

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

What?...
Its highly effective at reducing nitrate and phosphate levels..

There seems to be a slight chance that if you use certain forms of carbon that it "seems" to cause a minor cyano issue on occasion..
Its not a certainty. There is no "100% you will get cyano if you dose vodka".. Its happened to some any not others..
There is really no scientific proof that I've seen that carbon dosing causes a cyano bloom..

thank you that clears up a lot!

[Dan_P]

In the paper “Generic Assignments, Strain Histories and Properties of Pure Cultures of Cyanobacteria” the authors explicitly state that acetate will not support cyanobacteria growth. There was no mention of ethanol. Sugar will support growth.

This still leaves the possibility that dosing might indirectly cause cyano bacteria growth, but the occurrence and causes of cyanobacteria growth in aquaria is so poorly understood that “coincidence” is just as valid a hypothesis for cyanobacteria growth during dosing.

[bertoni]

I'd have to agree that we don't know what's happening with these microbial blooms. There are a lot of microbes in the ocean, and a lot of different nutrient paths in our tanks.

[Dan_P]

Originally Posted by bertoni

I'd have to agree that we don't know what's happening with these microbial blooms. There are a lot of microbes in the ocean, and a lot of different nutrient paths in our tanks.

Aquaria seem to have the potential to be chaotic systems. Your observation that “every aquarium is different” might be based solely on the array of microorganisms.

Just read about mixotrophic plankton in Scientific American, organisms that can obtain energy from photosynthesis and heterotrophy. Mixotrophic blooms or imbalances that lead to other organisms to bloom in an aquarium might be difficult to control. Success of lights out or reduced feeding strategies might be rendered randomly effective.

[hkgar]

Originally Posted by johnfallon135

wonder why people even bother dosing carbon then..

Cyano is better than GHA

[johnfallon135]

has anyone noticed any different signs of coral growth since carbon dosing?

[hkgar]

I have not seen a change.

[ramseynb]

I never noticed a growth difference, but a color difference? Without a doubt I got colors more pleasing to my eyes. The biggest thing I like about carbon dosing though is it allows me to continue my bad habit of feeding my tank with reckless abandon!

[hkgar]

SPS love those who over feed! Fish poop makes them happy.

[bertoni]

I think people have reported much healthier corals with carbon dosing (in some cases), which implies better growth. Different tanks respond very differently to carbon dosing.

[Dan_P]

Originally Posted by bertoni

I think people have reported much healthier corals with carbon dosing (in some cases), which implies better growth. Different tanks respond very differently to carbon dosing.

A couple thoughts.

Given that the carbon dosing table was incorrecting scaled, might the variable success rate of carbon dosing be partly attributed to underdosing?

Has anyone actually proved that carbon dosing works in aquariums? Might the variable success rate reflect the random results obtained from application of a placebo? I understand the science behind carbon dosing in the aquaculture industry. Where are the scientific studies about carbon dosing in aquaria? Is all the evidence anecdotal?

[bertoni]

I am fairly sure that no one has enough clean data to show any correlation (in the mathematical sense) between dosing and any other effect. That said, most people can get nutrient reduction. As far as the problem with the table, we do often tell people that they can keep increasing the dose as long as the tank is doing well. I try to make it clear that those guidelines are very conservative. I don't know how many people have backed away from increasing the dose due to that chart.

[Dan_P]

Originally Posted by bertoni

I am fairly sure that no one has enough clean data to show any correlation (in the mathematical sense) between dosing and any other effect. That said, most people can get nutrient reduction. As far as the problem with the table, we do often tell people that they can keep increasing the dose as long as the tank is doing well. I try to make it clear that those guidelines are very conservative. I don't know how many people have backed away from increasing the dose due to that chart.

In your heart of hearts, would you say that the nutrient reduction might have occurred anyway just by waiting the same amount of time as dosing? I ask this because of the advice that nutrient reduction might requires weeks or months.

[bertoni]

I do wonder about effects that take months to start showing results. It might be accurate, though. We never know what would have happened, not in any experiment.