Quality or Volume

[Jazza]

I'm in a bit of a predicament, should i go with Quality or Size.
I can put together a high end 20-30g sps nano with the best equipment or i can afford a larger lower quality 60-80g tank with cheaper gear.
Would you go with high quality but low volume or low quality and high volume?
Any input is welcome and appreciated!

[billdogg]

IMHO, you will quickly realize that you should have gone larger to begin with, so any $$$ that you will have spent on a smaller system will be wasted unless it can be used with the upgrade.

[tthouston]

Big system with used but good equipment.

[d2mini]

BIGGER IS BETTER.

More room for coral, more room for better fish (even if you don't have MORE fish, selection is just much better), more water volume = more stability, more room in your stand for equipment, will last longer before you want to upgrade. lol

Nano's are a PITA.

[NO3]

Im all over this one with 20yrs experience....

Do you love coral over fish? Then stay with a smaller tank (55g or 75g max) where you can do weekly water changes, do dosing, without breaking the bank.

Do you love fish over coral? Go with a 6ft 180gal or higher bc you can have some awesome big fish. But with large water volumes of over 300gals (counting large sumps) water changes, dosing will put you in the poor house and break the bank. I know owners of large tanks that easily spend over $200 per MONTH just maintaining their large tank.

Only people who have over a $1,000,000 in their portfolio can afford a showroom magazine large tank with tons of coral and big fish.....or its their only hobby and never go on vacations or play golf or have any disposable income hobbies other than reefing

[oldhead]

Originally Posted by NO3

Im all over this one with 20yrs experience....

Do you love coral over fish? Then stay with a smaller tank (55g or 75g max) where you can do weekly water changes, do dosing, without breaking the bank.

Do you love fish over coral? Go with a 6ft 180gal or higher bc you can have some awesome big fish. But with large water volumes of over 300gals (counting large sumps) water changes, dosing will put you in the poor house and break the bank. I know owners of large tanks that easily spend over $200 per MONTH just maintaining their large tank.

Only people who have over a $1,000,000 in their portfolio can afford a showroom magazine large tank with tons of coral and big fish.....or its their only hobby and never go on vacations or play golf or have any disposable income hobbies other than reefing

Well I wouldn't go that far. $200 a month seems excessive for up keep. Dosing is not that expensive and unless you are doing 400 gallon water changes, I don't see it being that much.

[phenom5]

I will go against the grain a little. I prefer a well equipped smaller tank over a ill equipped larger tank.

That said, 30-40g is a bit small. You can have fun with those smaller tanks, don't get me wrong, but a 60-75 would be a better long-term option IMHO.

I don't have a $1M portfolio unfortunately, and I don't spend $200/ month. But my tank is probably the okayest SPS tank in my neighborhood. I probably spend $500 per year? Randy's DIY 2 part, salt, RO/DI, Food...GFO/GAC/ Carbon (that's kinda up in the air right now).

75g tanks can be found on the cheap. You can spread out equipment costs over the cycle. And buy used...either online or find a local club.

[NO3]

I can EASILY SPEND NEARLY $2000+ A YEAR btwn electricity, water, salt, replacements, consumables....on my 180

Cost of ELECTRICITY!!!!!!!! Easily spending $80-$100 for all the extra KILOWATT hrs a month. Electricity is $1000-$1200 A YEAR

RODI water (I put 4 gal down my drain for every gal i make). Water bill. with sewage costs every 3mos is outrageous

Cost of RODI filters

Cost of salt ($60-80 a 200gal box.....go thru 8+ boxes a YEAR) that's $640 a year in salt

Cost of replacing MH bulbs at $75 a bulb every 6mos

Cost of dosing calcium, alk and Magnesium is outrageous

Cost of replacing random FAILED pieces: main pump $400. Vortechs poweheads wetsides $100 a piece, heaters $50+ a piece, skimmer pump $200 a pieces, various other consumables.

I really don't think you guys REALIZE how expensive a 180+ gal tank is to run and run well and attentively

Its REALITY folks

[Joke]

I think something in the middle will be best. I would go with some kind 3 foot tank, you will have a decent fish selection and plenty of accommodation for coral. Look for used gear, I'm always finding great deals on the second hand market. Lastly, don't waste your money on what's not needed.

[kmbyrnes]

BIGGER IS BETTER.

I got a 12 gallon tank to see if I could keep a tank.
In less than a month, I added a 100 tank.
Then it was a 125 for extra length.
Then it was the 350 so I can have big tangs.

Equipment doesn't has to be top-notch. There are lot of reasonable-priced, service, dependable pumps, powerheads and lights.
Many 'dabblers' find they are not cut out as 'reefers'. And they often DO buy the expensive toys and then sell cheap!

If the hot tub goes on the fritz ................

[phenom5]

Originally Posted by NO3

I can EASILY SPEND NEARLY $2000+ A YEAR btwn electricity, water, salt, replacements, consumables....on my 180

Cost of ELECTRICITY!!!!!!!! Easily spending $80-$100 for all the extra KILOWATT hrs a month. Electricity is $1000-$1200 A YEAR

RODI water (I put 4 gal down my drain for every gal i make). Water bill. with sewage costs every 3mos is outrageous

Cost of RODI filters

Cost of salt ($60-80 a 200gal box.....go thru 8+ boxes a YEAR) that's $640 a year in salt

Cost of replacing MH bulbs at $75 a bulb every 6mos

Cost of dosing calcium, alk and Magnesium is outrageous

Cost of replacing random FAILED pieces: main pump $400. Vortechs poweheads wetsides $100 a piece, heaters $50+ a piece, skimmer pump $200 a pieces, various other consumables.

I really don't think you guys REALIZE how expensive a 180+ gal tank is to run and run well and attentively

Its REALITY folks

Not trying to pick a fight here...but that seems way over blown.

Admittedly, I don't take water and electricity into account. One, I am lucky and electricity just isn't outrageously expensive where I live. Second, I have had a tank running for so long my utilities with a reef tank are just the norm. IDK, maybe it's been so long since I've had electric and water bills without a tank, I've forgot how much I'm spending. And I use RO for homebrewing, so I use even more water.

I spend $52/ year on RO/DI ( $35 on filters and resin, 35 every 2 years on a membrane).

I had been doing 15g/ week water changes, over the last 3 months I have dropped to 15g every other week. Regardless, that's 2-3 boxes/ year, or $100-$150/ year of RC.

$130/ year on T5's.

For dosing, I use Randy's 2-part recipe, and have for the better part of 6 or 7 years. I bought a 50lb bag of dow flake for $50...in 2015. Probably spend $20/ year on baking soda. Never have had a need to dose Mg. So...$30/ year give or take. For a big tank, I really should probably look into a Ca Rx, but dosing is cheap...but a PITA.

For failed equip, I'm probably good for $100/ year. Last year I replaced a heater and the impeller assembly for one of my Wav pumps to the tune of $105. The year before that...my return, I think, but don't remember if that was last year or 2016.


Like I said, I'm not trying to pick a fight, and sure, you can spend that much. But you don't have to. My tank is well equipped, full of healthy SPS, and it does not break the bank to run.

[NO3]

my intentions were not to start a fight nor even a heated argument.

the expenses i listed are real. where i live we get energy assessment in the mail. my neighbors are paying about $150 a month for electricity.... my WIFE reminds me during every fight we have we avg about $250 a month.

cost of salt is real. I have 300+ total water volume and easily blow thru 8 boxes a year.

i'm 10yrs into this 6ft 180g tank and like everything else in this world it seems like i have at least a $100+ replacement part that has worn out, broke, end of life cycle, whatever.

i stand behind my total expenses of $2k a year.

my WIFE reminds me all the time, its all about these d$%& fish...but i remind her i could sell the tank and go play softball and drink beer with guys 3-4 nights a week instead

[d2mini]

Originally Posted by NO3

Only people who have over a $1,000,000 in their portfolio can afford a showroom magazine large tank with tons of coral and big fish.....or its their only hobby and never go on vacations or play golf or have any disposable income hobbies other than reefing

LOL! Joking, right?


200g tank plus another 150 in the fish room.
Monthly maintenance cost was very inexpensive.

[tthouston]

hahahaha...lol...man...His question is which one is better between "small" 20 to 30 gallons or "Big" 60 to 80 gallons and you guy keep saying 200 gallons and 300 gallons...hahahaha...
I said big system is better mean 60 to 80 gallons for "him". For you guy 80 gallons are SMALL, but with him is "BIG".

[lpsouth1978]

I have done several tanks in many sizes, from a 3g pico, all the way up to a 300g DT with 90g sump. All I can say is...

The bigger the tank, the more it costs to run and maintain. The 300 was also A TON of work. Anytime I was home, I was working on the tank. Replacement parts are more expensive, bigger pumps and equipment cost more to run, water changes are a lot more work and expense.

I say go with something like a 40b and get quality equipment. I am not saying that you have to buy everything new, or the latest and greatest, but quality equipment will pay for itself pretty fast.

You can always get a 75g Marineland tank and stand from one of the big box stores for about $300. It can be easily drilled and you can have a very nice setup for the price of a smaller system. You still can't have a lot of the bigger fish, but you can keep a good selection and have room for a lot of corals. IMO the ideal size for me is between 75-125g DT, any bigger and I don't get to enjoy the tank like I want. I just spend all my time working on it.

[2_zoa]

Originally Posted by Jazza

I'm in a bit of a predicament, should i go with Quality or Size.
I can put together a high end 20-30g sps nano with the best equipment or i can afford a larger lower quality 60-80g tank with cheaper gear.
Would you go with high quality but low volume or low quality and high volume?
Any input is welcome and appreciated!

Honestly, your the only one who can answer your questions. The reality is your high end is another’s bottom of the barrel. There is also a very real point of, money spent vs system benefits. I mean really, I can spend $1400 on an abyss pump.....but why? Just to say I own it? Who cares? My current tank isn’t on line and there is zero pics of it on line.

You are the one who knows the amount of time your willing to spend on the tank. Your the one who knows how much you want to spend on the tank for running cost. Your the one who knows how your going to run the tank. IE....zeo vit, triton, berlin, DSR........

I tend to fall into the camp of bang for the buck. I’ve had outstanding luck with the lower cost less “desirable” equipment. I have cheap LED lights that are still running after (I forget) 4 years?? I use jeabo pumps who’s controllers mean nothing once they are controlled by my Profilux 4. The jeabo pumps cost mean I can have brand new spare pumps waiting to use and still come in at a smaller price point than the big names that are being used by others. That said, I do own a big name pump and I can’t tell the difference between the two. They both move water and they both keep running. My spares are collecting dust....

Your electric cost will be dependent on your area that you live in. Same goes for water cost. There’s just a whole lot that goes into the answer to your questions. It’s truly not that simple IMHO.


Edit;
You also have to think about how mature the tank is. Older generally (full of coral) meaning less intervention needed.

[ajoe]

It's a hobby. Time + Money = ? Go slow and find your temperament. The process and the discovery is the real reward.

[LeaveItToReefer]

Originally Posted by d2mini

LOL! Joking, right?





200g tank plus another 150 in the fish room.

Monthly maintenance cost was very inexpensive.

Denise I saw from one of your videos you keep everything in the garage by your cars. Any issues with rust?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Uncle99]

Go big as you can!
You'll get there anywhere, this hobby is addictive...

[d2mini]

Originally Posted by LeaveItToReefer

Denise I saw from one of your videos you keep everything in the garage by your cars. Any issues with rust?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ran that setup for a few years and no issues with the cars that I ever noticed.
But I couldn't leave tools out, like sitting on my workbench. They'd rust over pretty quickly.

[oscarreef]

I’m going to tell you from experience stay between 20 gallons to 45 gallons display tank. You can get quality equipment for a fair price and the space for a nice rock setup and great coral to make it look nice and full. I got a 13 gallon nano and wish I would have gone to 30 gallons but from my past reefing 45 gallons is the biggest I will go for the average reefer. Don’t go big and don’t go small and it won’t break the bank. Once you’re settled with that size then you make the decision to get a second tank and now you will know what size you truly want.


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[FoxFace Fish]

time for me to pick a fight (So What plays in the background)

I have a 55-gallon tank

I have 30$ in powerheads from Amazon,50 pounds pool filter sand I bought for 10 bucks, live rock about 50 lb i bought dry for 50 dollars

no filter, no protein skimmer, no Sump, just a little box that hangs off the back to grow cheato. I buy Walmart RODI water.

I spend maybe 40 bucks a month if that in upkeep (electricity included), probably about 400$ a year
I have no fancy equipment, the most advanced thing I have is a foam paint brush for algae. my biggest problem is some annoying brown algae that will not go away

you can keep a 55-gallon or a 60-gallon cube (wish I had one) for nothing if need be. the shiny equipment just makes reefing easier you do not really need it.

To answer your question go in the middle get something in between like someone above said and get just okay equipment... it does not have to be best in market

[2_zoa]

Originally Posted by FoxFace Fish

I have no fancy equipment, the most advanced thing I have is a foam paint brush for algae. my biggest problem is some annoying brown algae that will not go away

I’m going to guess the Walmart water has silicates in it driving that brown algae?
I did the same thing for a long time and when I got an RO/DI unit it went away.

[lpsouth1978]

As I said above, you don't need the best or newest equipment, but there are some things I would not go cheap on, the Skimmer being top on that list. My 40b will be running Black box LED's, Jebao return pump and wavemakers, cheap heater on an inkbird temp controller, and a quality Reef Octopus skimmer.

This hobby is expensive, no need to make it more expensive with SUPER HIGH END equipment. Find what works for you and fits your budget, and you will be happy. As foxface fish pointed out, not all of the equipment we tend to use is "Needed", but it can make things a lot easier on us.

[FoxFace Fish]

Originally Posted by 2_zoa

I’m going to guess the Walmart water has silicates in it driving that brown algae?
I did the same thing for a long time and when I got an RO/DI unit it went away.

yeah i thought so to but then it has a TDS of 0